EASA AND THE IMCR - NEWS
Sub Judice Angel Lovegod
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I am the Editor of the PPL/IR website, and have been remiss if that is in the editorial.
Remember that the website has a lot of aged opinion pieces. I don't know where that quote comes from, but it definitely predates the NPA.
I will be putting more recent copy up when the dust settles. At the moment opinions are developing by the hour.
And BillieBob is simply wrong about the attitude of PPL/IR towards the IMCR. He or she may have spoken to a member or two who are opposed. We don't screen members for their opinions!
Remember that the website has a lot of aged opinion pieces. I don't know where that quote comes from, but it definitely predates the NPA.
I will be putting more recent copy up when the dust settles. At the moment opinions are developing by the hour.
And BillieBob is simply wrong about the attitude of PPL/IR towards the IMCR. He or she may have spoken to a member or two who are opposed. We don't screen members for their opinions!
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I am the Editor of the PPL/IR website, and have been remiss if that is in the editorial.
Remember that the website has a lot of aged opinion pieces. I don't know where that quote comes from, but it definitely predates the NPA.
I will be putting more recent copy up when the dust settles. At the moment opinions are developing by the hour.
And BillieBob is simply wrong about the attitude of PPL/IR towards the IMCR. He or she may have spoken to a member or two who are opposed. We don't screen members for their opinions!
Remember that the website has a lot of aged opinion pieces. I don't know where that quote comes from, but it definitely predates the NPA.
I will be putting more recent copy up when the dust settles. At the moment opinions are developing by the hour.
And BillieBob is simply wrong about the attitude of PPL/IR towards the IMCR. He or she may have spoken to a member or two who are opposed. We don't screen members for their opinions!
The undated article is here
PPL/IR Europe - End of the IMC Rating?
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There is nothing concrete about the IMCR anywhere, currently.
But its demise is very unlikely.
If you go back a few years, EASA's position was total absolute standardisation across the EU (unless it was France in which case they could keep all their stuff
).
In very recent months, they have abandoned that position.
It could be political reality, driven by the current near meltdown of the EU. Obviously that doesn't help EASA, which needs the EU to pass the laws, but I wouldn't over-estimate it. EASA, as an employment agency, will run at maximum speed until it hits the rocks. There is no other option. Turkeys will never vote for xmas.
I think that more likely they have spent a lot of political capital (meaning: under the table assurances given to Euro MPs, as covert inducements for supporting EASA proposals) on what they have dragged out so far, and they cannot pull off another "Poll Tax sized" project cleanly. The only way forward is to compromise here and there.
The French national IR has been another factor. Ostensibly it cannot exist past April 2012, or April 2014, or whatever, but everybody knows that the French will just run with it, and stick a finger up to EASA/EU. This snub of EU authority would have hit EASA hard because they know that the UK could do the same if it wanted to, and the EU could do absolutely zero, zilch, nowt about it.
If you want any more, get yourself the complete set of Yes Minister DVDs, watch it, and come back if you have any questions
EASA is politics, not aviation.
But its demise is very unlikely.
If you go back a few years, EASA's position was total absolute standardisation across the EU (unless it was France in which case they could keep all their stuff
).In very recent months, they have abandoned that position.
It could be political reality, driven by the current near meltdown of the EU. Obviously that doesn't help EASA, which needs the EU to pass the laws, but I wouldn't over-estimate it. EASA, as an employment agency, will run at maximum speed until it hits the rocks. There is no other option. Turkeys will never vote for xmas.
I think that more likely they have spent a lot of political capital (meaning: under the table assurances given to Euro MPs, as covert inducements for supporting EASA proposals) on what they have dragged out so far, and they cannot pull off another "Poll Tax sized" project cleanly. The only way forward is to compromise here and there.
The French national IR has been another factor. Ostensibly it cannot exist past April 2012, or April 2014, or whatever, but everybody knows that the French will just run with it, and stick a finger up to EASA/EU. This snub of EU authority would have hit EASA hard because they know that the UK could do the same if it wanted to, and the EU could do absolutely zero, zilch, nowt about it.
If you want any more, get yourself the complete set of Yes Minister DVDs, watch it, and come back if you have any questions
EASA is politics, not aviation.
Sub Judice Angel Lovegod
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Thank you. I AM ON THE TRAIN, but will look when I get home...
...now edited to make it clear that that opinion was expressed four years ago.
...now edited to make it clear that that opinion was expressed four years ago.
Last edited by Timothy; 4th Oct 2011 at 10:27.
Thread Starter
that opinion was expressed four years ago.
So keep 'em peeled for emerging news. In a nutshell, IMCR, EIR and 'new' IR all have their place; the problem will be to find an equable solution to the UK IMCR situation which will allow EASA to concede their earlier held position.
We think we may have a way. Certainly Europe Air Sports and IAOPA think so!
(Timothy, I hope you remembered your Ian Allan trainspotter's guide...
)
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Is there anyone who has had experience of the Australian PIFR (Private IFR) rating. It involves an enroute only rating with optional add-on approach and departure competencies...I guess most would get the GPS approach competency...but I don't know...any comments from Australia?
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The PIFR is well known to EASA committee members.
I don't know why the principle was rejected. Perhaps because flying just one type of approach is not very useful, especially if alternated need to be considered. Another factor is that there is a resistance (probably correctly) to producing a "second class IR" because that could lead to lobbying (by airline and ATC unions, probably) to block such pilots from certain airports and certain airspace classes - a thin end of a wedge.
So, the end proposal was for the EIR whose termination is clearly VFR-only, and the FCL008 IR which is fully ICAO compliant.
Like America, Australia can do a lot of good sub-ICAO stuff because almost none of their private pilots ever leaves their airspace. Like automatic acceptance of FAA STCs; EASA would do that over its dead body.
I don't know why the principle was rejected. Perhaps because flying just one type of approach is not very useful, especially if alternated need to be considered. Another factor is that there is a resistance (probably correctly) to producing a "second class IR" because that could lead to lobbying (by airline and ATC unions, probably) to block such pilots from certain airports and certain airspace classes - a thin end of a wedge.
So, the end proposal was for the EIR whose termination is clearly VFR-only, and the FCL008 IR which is fully ICAO compliant.
Like America, Australia can do a lot of good sub-ICAO stuff because almost none of their private pilots ever leaves their airspace. Like automatic acceptance of FAA STCs; EASA would do that over its dead body.
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Io - i agree with everything in your last post except the last line.
I guess it is true that europe is unable to disassociate itself from the plethora of each individual states interest and in that much i agree with you but whilst our discussion is that of idealists it is at the heart of europe and easa to behave as if we were one nation in exactly the same way as australia or america and in that much easa has the same opportunity - sadly an opportunity they have chosen not to take.
It is a significant point because if you are correct it would suggest easa has failed at the most fundamental level - namely to set aside national interests.
However i dont think easa is guilty of the crime you suggest - i think it is much simpler - they dont want to be seen tainted with the american brush, they dont want to bow to americas perceived dominance in aviation, and so far as australia is concerned they dont want to be seen to be copying some one elses model.
In short we are going to do things our way and we are not getting into bed with the yanks.
I guess it is true that europe is unable to disassociate itself from the plethora of each individual states interest and in that much i agree with you but whilst our discussion is that of idealists it is at the heart of europe and easa to behave as if we were one nation in exactly the same way as australia or america and in that much easa has the same opportunity - sadly an opportunity they have chosen not to take.
It is a significant point because if you are correct it would suggest easa has failed at the most fundamental level - namely to set aside national interests.
However i dont think easa is guilty of the crime you suggest - i think it is much simpler - they dont want to be seen tainted with the american brush, they dont want to bow to americas perceived dominance in aviation, and so far as australia is concerned they dont want to be seen to be copying some one elses model.
In short we are going to do things our way and we are not getting into bed with the yanks.
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The PIFR standards are the same as the full IR...(same tolerances on the flight test etc)...so it looks equivalent to the EIR...I don't know how many Australian pilots only have the enroute rating without any approach approvals but it would be interesting to hear how they get on....
I suspect most would at least get the ILS/LOC/DME and GPS arrival approvals as even dirt strips in the bush often have a published GPS procedure...so maybe there are very few with just the enroute rating...of course the traffic and radar situation is very different there...
I suspect most would at least get the ILS/LOC/DME and GPS arrival approvals as even dirt strips in the bush often have a published GPS procedure...so maybe there are very few with just the enroute rating...of course the traffic and radar situation is very different there...
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Interesting to see how everybody has a strong opinion on this subject.
Is there going to be a good transition for IMCr to EIR? if so, what is the problem. Then the UK IMCr pilots can use their skills in the same way abroad?
I am more interested to see what the next steps are... Will Europe finally start coming with GPS approaches, especially on a lot of smaller airfields? And will we be getting rid of the NDB approaches?
Can we finally get some proper weather services like the US have NEXRAD and can we have TIS???
Also... if I get my PPL/IR ... and want to upgrade to CPL/Ir or (frozen)ATP(IR) ... can we get rid of some of the 14 theory exams....
Lets please make things sensible!!
Is there going to be a good transition for IMCr to EIR? if so, what is the problem. Then the UK IMCr pilots can use their skills in the same way abroad?
I am more interested to see what the next steps are... Will Europe finally start coming with GPS approaches, especially on a lot of smaller airfields? And will we be getting rid of the NDB approaches?
Can we finally get some proper weather services like the US have NEXRAD and can we have TIS???
Also... if I get my PPL/IR ... and want to upgrade to CPL/Ir or (frozen)ATP(IR) ... can we get rid of some of the 14 theory exams....
Lets please make things sensible!!
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Fair point Silvaire1....The US has twice as many pilots, 5 times as many with IRs, very high mountains, deserts, very high density altitudes, extremely dense traffic, sparse traffic, tropical, temperate, intense frontal systems, hurricanes....a superior safety record...superior system including XM data & weather, WAAS based LPVs....but apprently inferior training and an inferior instrument rating...?
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Fuji - I think you are right on both counts i.e. EASA has failed to remove national interests (obviously, because the national CAAs, etc, lobby like hell against stuff which would cause job losses) and they also don't like the USA so a lot of stuff, if it so happens that it would be similar to the way the USA does it, has to be dressed up with different names, small changes, gold plating, etc.
Ellemeet - All this FCL008 IR stuff is for private pilots only. I don't see any effort going on to reduce the 14 CPL/IR exams which are so full of bollox and which are nowadays a charade because the whole FTO sausage machine swats them up using the question bank.
Ellemeet - All this FCL008 IR stuff is for private pilots only. I don't see any effort going on to reduce the 14 CPL/IR exams which are so full of bollox and which are nowadays a charade because the whole FTO sausage machine swats them up using the question bank.
Thread Starter
NPA 2011-16 will allow IMCr time to be credited, it would certainly seem.
The PIFR includes an ability to add up to 24 different 'Flight Procedure Approvals', which makes administration something of a burden. EIR and 'new'IR are much simpler; however, we still need a solution for wholly national needs for some Member States.
The 'new'IR will include FAR less theoretical knowledge than its predecessor; moreover, instrument flight time achieved elsewhere (e.g. EIR holder gaining IF experience) will be creditable.
The proposals of NPA 2011-61 make a lot of sense; however, comments made using the EASA Comment Response Tool are vital in order to create a Comment Response Document as soon as can be achieved; this can then be taken forward.
The PIFR includes an ability to add up to 24 different 'Flight Procedure Approvals', which makes administration something of a burden. EIR and 'new'IR are much simpler; however, we still need a solution for wholly national needs for some Member States.
The 'new'IR will include FAR less theoretical knowledge than its predecessor; moreover, instrument flight time achieved elsewhere (e.g. EIR holder gaining IF experience) will be creditable.
The proposals of NPA 2011-61 make a lot of sense; however, comments made using the EASA Comment Response Tool are vital in order to create a Comment Response Document as soon as can be achieved; this can then be taken forward.
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The CRT is a web-based application. It has been successfully tested and is supported on Internet Explorer 6+ (SP2 must be installed), Firefox 2.x & 3.x.
It has been successfully tested on Opera 9.x, Safari 3.x and Google Chrome, but those browsers cannot be considered as supported.
CRT does work without know issues with MS Office 2003 up to SP 3, but later versions cannot be guaranteed, nor any other office tools.
Documents in the CRT will be provided in two formats; Acrobat (.pdf) and FlashPaper (.swf). The required programs, Adobe Reader and Adobe FlashPlayer, are available for free download, see links below.
So does that mean easa are using non euro approved software - american to boot? Shirley they should develop and implement brussels 1.x.
It has been successfully tested on Opera 9.x, Safari 3.x and Google Chrome, but those browsers cannot be considered as supported.
CRT does work without know issues with MS Office 2003 up to SP 3, but later versions cannot be guaranteed, nor any other office tools.
Documents in the CRT will be provided in two formats; Acrobat (.pdf) and FlashPaper (.swf). The required programs, Adobe Reader and Adobe FlashPlayer, are available for free download, see links below.
So does that mean easa are using non euro approved software - american to boot? Shirley they should develop and implement brussels 1.x.
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Color Blindness and the European IR
Sorry if this has already been asked.
I know that as a colour blind person I can get a UK IMC but would the European IR end all that? Does anyone know? Would you have to have perfect colour vision for that?
In short, is this the last chance to get something that allows me to fly in cloud ever? Would grandfather rights survive?
Any ideas?
Ps. I've failed all the tests, lantern, holmes, you name it.
I know that as a colour blind person I can get a UK IMC but would the European IR end all that? Does anyone know? Would you have to have perfect colour vision for that?
In short, is this the last chance to get something that allows me to fly in cloud ever? Would grandfather rights survive?
Any ideas?
Ps. I've failed all the tests, lantern, holmes, you name it.
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The medical requirements for the "CBM IR" (as it is now called, apparently - competence based modular) seem to be the same as the ones for the JAA IR.
I have heard that some pilots have got the JAA IR in the UK with a day-only restriction. It seems very rare. But then the day-only IMCR was totally unheard of - until some people revealed the CAA had been doing it for years, quietly.
There are some possibly helpful medical concessions around in the UK - here
The IMCR looks like it will continue.
I have heard that some pilots have got the JAA IR in the UK with a day-only restriction. It seems very rare. But then the day-only IMCR was totally unheard of - until some people revealed the CAA had been doing it for years, quietly.
There are some possibly helpful medical concessions around in the UK - here
The IMCR looks like it will continue.
Sub Judice Angel Lovegod
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The IMCR looks like it will continue.
There are three versions of what "continue" might mean.
- Grandfathered rights for existing holders - this seems to be assured
- Ongoing ability to get a new rating on non EASA aircraft like the Chipmunk - this seems likely, but I don't think assured (I may be wrong)
- Ongoing ability to get a new rating on EASA aircraft - we will fight for this, but the outcome is very far from assured.