Manchester crash reported BBC
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Does it matter this is out of date?
CofA / Permit EASA Certificate of Airworthiness Validity Expiry: 28/07/2011
CofA / Permit EASA Certificate of Airworthiness Validity Expiry: 28/07/2011
Thoughts with the pilots, hope they both make a full recovery. It always seems a bit closer to home when it's an aircraft you've flown in the past.
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You have completly the wrong aircraft. It is not the one that is shown in Media Photos So please do not speculate and give the 'press' who read these articles new ideas. Thankyou.
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This is not the first time, and sadly probably not the last time, that I find myself commenting on ill informed press specualtion, so to help out any reporters hovering here trying to get a new "angle" on this story let me make it simple for you....
The pilot did not have to wrestle bravely with the controls
He did not narrowly avoid an orphanage/school/hospital etc
Light aircraft are NOT dangerous
As private pilots we are not trained in how to land on a rooftop for obvoius reasons !
For any you left please repect the fact that 2 guys are in hospital in a very serious state indeed, as the flying community our thoughts and prayers are with them and thier families at this time, and we wish them a speedy recovery. Please do not speculate about these things, let the proper investigation take place and comment on that, in the mean time leave those guys in particular, and general avaition (that is what little planes are called) alone!!!
Thank You
The pilot did not have to wrestle bravely with the controls
He did not narrowly avoid an orphanage/school/hospital etc
Light aircraft are NOT dangerous
As private pilots we are not trained in how to land on a rooftop for obvoius reasons !
For any you left please repect the fact that 2 guys are in hospital in a very serious state indeed, as the flying community our thoughts and prayers are with them and thier families at this time, and we wish them a speedy recovery. Please do not speculate about these things, let the proper investigation take place and comment on that, in the mean time leave those guys in particular, and general avaition (that is what little planes are called) alone!!!
Thank You
ONE thing we can speculate on is...why the hell hasn't the airfield been SAFEGUARDED? I'm reasonably sure that these houses, less than 1000ft from the runway, were not there whenn Barton was first opened.
If I am correct, and the poor occupants do not pull through, then those in the planning department should be culpable. Time and again I see planning permission granted for housing developments close to arfields - this is why SAFEGUARDING was invented; for the safety of all.
Drunken rant over...
LJ
If I am correct, and the poor occupants do not pull through, then those in the planning department should be culpable. Time and again I see planning permission granted for housing developments close to arfields - this is why SAFEGUARDING was invented; for the safety of all.
Drunken rant over...
LJ
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then those in the planning department should be culpable
Any "safeguarding" process (yes, I've seen some such maps, but only in relation to CAT, not SEP GA) must surely be the responsibility of aviation professionals, not town planners?
The CAA transferred safeguarding responsibilities to aerodromes in 2003. Revised legislation for England and Wales and for Scotland came into effect on 10 Feb 03 resulting in all licensed aerodromes now having to safeguard themselves. Furthermore, it is the advice of HM Government within that legislation that all aerodromes, licensed and unlicensed, should be safeguarded. Note that Northern Ireland has separate legislation
For those that are uncertain of the meaning of safeguarding or how it could affect them, we offer the following short definition. It is the control of land use in order to protect the airspace over and around an aerodrome against developments that could adversely affect safe operations. A fuller explanation can be found in the appropriate legislation.
For those that are uncertain of the meaning of safeguarding or how it could affect them, we offer the following short definition. It is the control of land use in order to protect the airspace over and around an aerodrome against developments that could adversely affect safe operations. A fuller explanation can be found in the appropriate legislation.
LJ
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Planning departments have paid lip service to this for way too long, in my opinion.
I am however checking with my head of planning (I'm the portfolio holder) re our local airport.
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Dreadful news .... really strikes home
So the airfield/port is responsible for safeguarding.
Here's how I interpret this ...
In the event of an accident where safeguarding is an issue, does the airfield carry the can despite having their hands tied behind their back?
SD
So the airfield/port is responsible for safeguarding.
Here's how I interpret this ...
- The airfield has the job of doing it
- The airfield is responsible if it's not done effectively
- What power does the airfield have to implement its safeguarding plans?
- How does this compare with the power of an individual to appeal against the airfield's safeguarding plans?
- What responsibility does the local authority planning department have to support the airfield's safeguarding plans?
In the event of an accident where safeguarding is an issue, does the airfield carry the can despite having their hands tied behind their back?
SD
Last edited by sunday driver; 31st Jul 2011 at 11:01. Reason: incomprehensibility reduction
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Talk about safe guarding around established airfields who already have housing around them is going to be a spectacular own goal to GA airfields.
Realisatically to get the safe guarding back would mean the removal of several hundreds of millions worth of housing stock which there isn't enough of anyway.
It doesn't matter that the airfield was there first if the point is argued and the nimbys get hold of it that its unsafe having singles operating with out safe guarding you will be stuffed. The airfields will be deemed pref A airfields only and that will mean they will be shut for GA users. And then quite quickly afterwards be shut as uneconomic.
Realisatically to get the safe guarding back would mean the removal of several hundreds of millions worth of housing stock which there isn't enough of anyway.
It doesn't matter that the airfield was there first if the point is argued and the nimbys get hold of it that its unsafe having singles operating with out safe guarding you will be stuffed. The airfields will be deemed pref A airfields only and that will mean they will be shut for GA users. And then quite quickly afterwards be shut as uneconomic.
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What does a "single" have to do with this?
The stats suggest that most twin piston pilots are flying hardware with poor SE performance and are nowhere near current enough to implement the required very critical procedure with the required haste, and will still crash if they get a total engine stoppage on takeoff.
Thankfully this kind of accident is extremely rare. If it were otherwise, perhaps 50% of GA airfields in Europe would close immediately, with Gertrude's one being one of the first.
The stats suggest that most twin piston pilots are flying hardware with poor SE performance and are nowhere near current enough to implement the required very critical procedure with the required haste, and will still crash if they get a total engine stoppage on takeoff.
Thankfully this kind of accident is extremely rare. If it were otherwise, perhaps 50% of GA airfields in Europe would close immediately, with Gertrude's one being one of the first.
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Exactly which is why I said Perf A ie known performance on a EFTO.
And that the issue that most GA airports arn't safeguarded, if there is a fuss kicked up about this fact there is only going to be one outcome and it isn't that houses will be demolished
And that the issue that most GA airports arn't safeguarded, if there is a fuss kicked up about this fact there is only going to be one outcome and it isn't that houses will be demolished
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Good example of why we should type posts with caution
Quote from Manchester news paper:
Manchester light plane crash update > National News > News | Click Manchester
It is thought the pilot may have been attempting to land his aircraft on the road when it collided with the two homes which belong to a mother and daughter.
One expert on a respected professional pilot's website wrote: "Sounds like the pilot attempted to land in the street after looking at the road. Looks wide and long."
Neighbour Vivian Fletcher, 72, lives in Newlands Avenue described her shock after hearing a bang as the plane came down.
She said: "I had just returned from the shops and was putting my shopping away when I heard a big bang.
"The plane came down on two houses, a woman lives in one of them and her daughter lived next door.
"I ran out when I heard the noise, there was black smoke everywhere, before we knew it the street was swarming with police and fire and rescue officers. Everyone is still in a state of shock I think.
The quote is from the post of stewmath, post #3 on this thread,One expert on a respected professional pilot's website wrote: "Sounds like the pilot attempted to land in the street after looking at the road. Looks wide and long."
Neighbour Vivian Fletcher, 72, lives in Newlands Avenue described her shock after hearing a bang as the plane came down.
She said: "I had just returned from the shops and was putting my shopping away when I heard a big bang.
"The plane came down on two houses, a woman lives in one of them and her daughter lived next door.
"I ran out when I heard the noise, there was black smoke everywhere, before we knew it the street was swarming with police and fire and rescue officers. Everyone is still in a state of shock I think.
Manchester light plane crash update > National News > News | Click Manchester