SportCruiser Question
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SportCruiser Question
Is it now possible to buy a NEW factory built CZAW SportCruiser to operate as G-Reg in the UK?
When I first looked at these several years back before the 'Piper Sport' venture, it was a case of buying a quick build kit only for UK operation as it had to be 'homebuilt' and therefore as the owner/operator I would have had to put in a specified time towards the build for it to qualify as 'homebuilt'.
Has this changed? What was the relevant legislation that changed if it is now possible to buy a new factory built aircraft for UK operation?
Ta.
When I first looked at these several years back before the 'Piper Sport' venture, it was a case of buying a quick build kit only for UK operation as it had to be 'homebuilt' and therefore as the owner/operator I would have had to put in a specified time towards the build for it to qualify as 'homebuilt'.
Has this changed? What was the relevant legislation that changed if it is now possible to buy a new factory built aircraft for UK operation?
Ta.
NEW, no you can't, since Piper won't sell you one any more and it was under their organisation approvals.
You can get a sportcruiser kit from CSA which should be LAA approved, or a nearly-new second hand Pipersport sold whilst Piper was still in the game.
G
You can get a sportcruiser kit from CSA which should be LAA approved, or a nearly-new second hand Pipersport sold whilst Piper was still in the game.
G
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Factory built aircraft have in the past been "G plated" on a CAA permit and I see no reason why this should change.
I you want it as a private aircraft it would be a good buy, if you want to run it as a group or club aircraft that is quire another matter.
I you want it as a private aircraft it would be a good buy, if you want to run it as a group or club aircraft that is quire another matter.
If they have EASA part 21 approvals and the type has an EASA TCDS with CSA at the TC holder, that all changes - but I don't believe that any of these things are true.
G
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I think you'll find that you can buy new, factory complete SportCruisers - certainly they were being sold as such at Friedrichshafen last week (and were available as such before Piper were involved - there's one based at Wycombe).
The problem is that they are on an EASA Permit to Fly so can be used for for private use only. And no one knows where the PtF against Restricted Type Certificates/LSAs etc will go if/when EASA get to grips with it.
What you really want is the much nicer to fly, Tecnam P2002-JF - a certified VLA machine available for flying training/hire and private use (including Night/VFR)....
Next spring should see the certified P2008 available for those that like very pretty high wing machines (as opposed to the C162...!).
The problem is that they are on an EASA Permit to Fly so can be used for for private use only. And no one knows where the PtF against Restricted Type Certificates/LSAs etc will go if/when EASA get to grips with it.
What you really want is the much nicer to fly, Tecnam P2002-JF - a certified VLA machine available for flying training/hire and private use (including Night/VFR)....
Next spring should see the certified P2008 available for those that like very pretty high wing machines (as opposed to the C162...!).
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Been searching the web and it seems they are on an EASA permit which all appears to be very grey to my poor little brain.
To answer what I really want:
Cheep flying for the next 10 - 20 years
An aircraft I can do more to than change the plugs and polish. I'm handy with spanners, but not a certified aero engineer, though I would like to be able to do stuff like a basic oil change etc without paying a fortune for it to be done.
Something totally modern.
I'm not keen on the kit route, I've probably got the ability (done a couple of courses where they thought I would probably do OK), but truth is I just want to fly, like now.
My master plan was to buy a Chipmunk and then syndicate it, recovering most of the capital to buy a SportCruiser. I'm not all that convinced that a Chipmunk syndicate is viable, hence I'm now considering just bunging all the capital at the SportCruiser for my own Private use.
So assuming I can buy a SportCruiser factory built and fly it on an EASA permit as a G reg, do I need a certified engineer to do the maintenance? Would this be a different story if it was a kit built version?
To answer what I really want:
Cheep flying for the next 10 - 20 years
An aircraft I can do more to than change the plugs and polish. I'm handy with spanners, but not a certified aero engineer, though I would like to be able to do stuff like a basic oil change etc without paying a fortune for it to be done.
Something totally modern.
I'm not keen on the kit route, I've probably got the ability (done a couple of courses where they thought I would probably do OK), but truth is I just want to fly, like now.
My master plan was to buy a Chipmunk and then syndicate it, recovering most of the capital to buy a SportCruiser. I'm not all that convinced that a Chipmunk syndicate is viable, hence I'm now considering just bunging all the capital at the SportCruiser for my own Private use.
So assuming I can buy a SportCruiser factory built and fly it on an EASA permit as a G reg, do I need a certified engineer to do the maintenance? Would this be a different story if it was a kit built version?
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though I would like to be able to do stuff like a basic oil change etc without paying a fortune for it to be done.
Doing your own 50hr checks represents a large operating cost saving. I spend about £70 on the oil, £15 on the oil filter, and that's about it. I would be paying £600+ for a company to do it.
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Too much London Pride
Quote:-Factory built aircraft have in the past been "G plated" on a CAA permit and I see no reason why this should change.
I should have said EASA permit !!!!!!!
I should have said EASA permit !!!!!!!
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I've had some time to look at the P2002 JF, hmmm interesting, doesn't have the looks of the SportCruiser, but does make lots of sense.
I noticed it is night/VFR capable? Does this apply to the UK? When I did my night qualification I remember that it was technically an IFR flight, anyone know if I can legally fly a P2002 JF at night in the UK?
While we are at it, any other suggested aircraft? The SportCruiser is still winning (mainly because after 4 years of wanting one it's really hard to ignore) but I might as well be aware of the alternatives.
I noticed it is night/VFR capable? Does this apply to the UK? When I did my night qualification I remember that it was technically an IFR flight, anyone know if I can legally fly a P2002 JF at night in the UK?
While we are at it, any other suggested aircraft? The SportCruiser is still winning (mainly because after 4 years of wanting one it's really hard to ignore) but I might as well be aware of the alternatives.
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The Tecnam P2002-JF is now EASA certified for Night/VFR - and the UK CAA (I spoke to them personally) accept it as such. For the aircraft it needs the nav light, map lights etc, heated pitot options and preferably the auxiliary alternator.
More info here Tecnam UK with a demo aircraft operated by Airways Flying Club (or PM me for a guided tour - I have about 15 hours on G-TECI and it's a real fun machine to fly!).
The difference in operating costs between a Chipmunk and a P2002-JF are immeasurable....
More info here Tecnam UK with a demo aircraft operated by Airways Flying Club (or PM me for a guided tour - I have about 15 hours on G-TECI and it's a real fun machine to fly!).
The difference in operating costs between a Chipmunk and a P2002-JF are immeasurable....
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I realise the Chipmunk is a completely different proposition, hence why I was considering a syndicate, I simply couldn't operate one for any amount of time on my own.
As the response to a proposed Chipmunk Syndicate in Essex (different thread) had precisely zero people saying they would go for it, I think I'm much safer with plan B to invest the capital in something new and inexpensive to operate, I can just fly and enjoy. The idea was that whilst I had the lump sum I could launch the syndicate and have my cake and eat it, but if nobody wants 'in' with the Chipmunk, then that is a no go.
My selection for the modern aircraft is based on cost to 1000hrs being less than £100K, SportCruiser just scrapes in at that at current fuel prices (ignoring insurance and hangar costs), have to do my sums on the P2002-JF.
I'll drop you a PM smarthawke, I've a couple of busy weeks ahead but I sure would like a guided tour of the the P2002-JF when I get some spare time.
As the response to a proposed Chipmunk Syndicate in Essex (different thread) had precisely zero people saying they would go for it, I think I'm much safer with plan B to invest the capital in something new and inexpensive to operate, I can just fly and enjoy. The idea was that whilst I had the lump sum I could launch the syndicate and have my cake and eat it, but if nobody wants 'in' with the Chipmunk, then that is a no go.
My selection for the modern aircraft is based on cost to 1000hrs being less than £100K, SportCruiser just scrapes in at that at current fuel prices (ignoring insurance and hangar costs), have to do my sums on the P2002-JF.
I'll drop you a PM smarthawke, I've a couple of busy weeks ahead but I sure would like a guided tour of the the P2002-JF when I get some spare time.
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Doing my sums, I'm a little over budget on fuel/initial purchase cost, but lets say I can afford a little over budget.
So I need the maintenance costs on the P2002-JF
Which would consist of?
I'm guessing 50hr checks
Annual
Engine replaced at 1500hrs
Can you give me basic maintenance costs smarthawke if say 100hrs per year and assuming we don't go beyond 1000hrs so don't need to replace the engine.
So I need the maintenance costs on the P2002-JF
Which would consist of?
I'm guessing 50hr checks
Annual
Engine replaced at 1500hrs
Can you give me basic maintenance costs smarthawke if say 100hrs per year and assuming we don't go beyond 1000hrs so don't need to replace the engine.
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Why not get a low hour home built? You can then do all the maintenance yourself saving you a lot of cash over 20 years but you do not have to build it. There is a lot to choose from and you can keep it bang up to date with a lot less cash. Have a look at the Sport Cruiser, the P300, MCR01, Tecnam and probably several more. If you are thinking of serious touring do keep an eye on the wing loading. Some machines are much more prone to turbulence than others. Big variations in speed and load carrying as well.
Rod1
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“Engine replaced at 1500hrs”
Why? The TBO of the Rotax is 2000hours. If you go LAA many run past 3000. If you go homebuilt recon on about £300 a year for maintenance over the first 5 years at least.
100 hour on the Rotax (assuming 70% or more Mogas use) involves 3L of oil £20 and a filter £8. You will also need a bit of locking wire etc.
Rod1
Why? The TBO of the Rotax is 2000hours. If you go LAA many run past 3000. If you go homebuilt recon on about £300 a year for maintenance over the first 5 years at least.
100 hour on the Rotax (assuming 70% or more Mogas use) involves 3L of oil £20 and a filter £8. You will also need a bit of locking wire etc.
Rod1
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I was reading up the blurb on the P2002-JF which stated - engine life before replacement 1500hrs - that's where it came from.
I'm thinking the P2002-JF is a lot more cash than the SportCruiser in real terms. SportCruiser wins on load capacity too.
I think I can stretch to the oil and and filter and locking wire Rod That is considerably cheaper than what I pay for my 5000 mile service of my old Land Rover
Which goes back to the question I had before, if I went for a new SportCruiser on an EASA permit, does that let me do all my own maintenance? Or is that only possible if it is a homebuilt version? What I'm really worried about is big maintenance bills - particularly considering I'm pretty confident I could do the work myself.
Quick edit, OK I didn't type Trabant, forum joke??
I'm thinking the P2002-JF is a lot more cash than the SportCruiser in real terms. SportCruiser wins on load capacity too.
I think I can stretch to the oil and and filter and locking wire Rod
That is considerably cheaper than what I pay for my 5000 mile service of my old Land Rover Which goes back to the question I had before, if I went for a new SportCruiser on an EASA permit, does that let me do all my own maintenance? Or is that only possible if it is a homebuilt version? What I'm really worried about is big maintenance bills - particularly considering I'm pretty confident I could do the work myself.
Quick edit, OK I didn't type Trabant, forum joke??
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“I went for a new SportCruiser on an EASA permit, does that let me do all my own maintenance”
You are subject to part M maintenance, so limited to the same work you could do on a PA28etc.
The 1500hours is out of date.
Have you flown in many Rotax powered machines?
Rod1
You are subject to part M maintenance, so limited to the same work you could do on a PA28etc.
The 1500hours is out of date.
Have you flown in many Rotax powered machines?
Rod1