Kemble - disgraceful behaviour - or not?
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Kemble - cheeky monkeys
A stude landed at Kemble just after 5 the other day and was presented with a £150 landing fee and told that he had landed 2 minutes out of hours (he wasn't told in the air) and everyone had to be paid half an hours overtime.
That stinks. He won't be going there again. Their loss.
That stinks. He won't be going there again. Their loss.
Last edited by Monocock; 20th Apr 2011 at 06:04.
I don't think the situation was quite how it appeared. There are tapes that can be replayed.....
However, perhaps GA should find a solution to out of hours problem that does not involve such high costs. Would it be practical to have one "out of hours permit" for all UK airports that also allows gliders to aero tow retrieve from consenting aerodromes?
bb
However, perhaps GA should find a solution to out of hours problem that does not involve such high costs. Would it be practical to have one "out of hours permit" for all UK airports that also allows gliders to aero tow retrieve from consenting aerodromes?
bb
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Garbage
Maybe if "pilots" read NOTAMS, and respected the fact that most airfields are PRIVATE PROPERTY and they land they only WITH PERMISSION, then the poor hurt little soul wouldn't have got himself/herself in to a pickle.
The whole tone of most of these whingers is "why should I have to pay £x to land". Well, pal, if we don't pay for the facilities, they will gradually disappear. How it is ok to pay 140quid an hour to fly a fourty year old heap of rust, then moan about 15 quid to land at a place with professional fire service, regularly swept runways, fuel, cust grass, CAA rules all met? Beggers belief.
I've flown in/out of Kemble weekly for 8 years - and I can assure you they are unfailingly polite and helpful to GA.
The whole tone of most of these whingers is "why should I have to pay £x to land". Well, pal, if we don't pay for the facilities, they will gradually disappear. How it is ok to pay 140quid an hour to fly a fourty year old heap of rust, then moan about 15 quid to land at a place with professional fire service, regularly swept runways, fuel, cust grass, CAA rules all met? Beggers belief.
I've flown in/out of Kemble weekly for 8 years - and I can assure you they are unfailingly polite and helpful to GA.
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“Well, pal, if we don't pay for the facilities, they will gradually disappear. “
Interesting argument but it does not hold true of reality. There are many more free or almost free landing sites within ½ and hour of me then there were 10 years ago and fewer licensed airfields which charge big bucks.
“How it is ok to pay 140quid an hour to fly a fourty year old heap of rust, then moan about 15 quid to land at a place with professional fire service, regularly swept runways, fuel, cust grass, CAA rules all met? Beggers belief.”
I would not pay £140 an hour to fly anything, but if you want to good for you. Pro fire cover has not saved a single GA life and the CAA have abandoned it as a requirement for flight training. More free landing sites offer me mogas than licensed airfields and the grass is just fine.
There is more than one way to view the world and for GA, the argument that you get what you pay for rarely works. The mantra that the more you know the less you pay (or the less you get ripped off) is far more appropriate.
Rod1
Interesting argument but it does not hold true of reality. There are many more free or almost free landing sites within ½ and hour of me then there were 10 years ago and fewer licensed airfields which charge big bucks.
“How it is ok to pay 140quid an hour to fly a fourty year old heap of rust, then moan about 15 quid to land at a place with professional fire service, regularly swept runways, fuel, cust grass, CAA rules all met? Beggers belief.”
I would not pay £140 an hour to fly anything, but if you want to good for you. Pro fire cover has not saved a single GA life and the CAA have abandoned it as a requirement for flight training. More free landing sites offer me mogas than licensed airfields and the grass is just fine.
There is more than one way to view the world and for GA, the argument that you get what you pay for rarely works. The mantra that the more you know the less you pay (or the less you get ripped off) is far more appropriate.
Rod1
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dstevans,
Maybe pilots are calling for public ownership of airports and/or tax collected to fund relevant transport infrastructure for the public.
I don't pay more than $25 for large airports out here, and almost everywhere else where I need to go is free.
May it remain that way.
Maybe pilots are calling for public ownership of airports and/or tax collected to fund relevant transport infrastructure for the public.
I don't pay more than $25 for large airports out here, and almost everywhere else where I need to go is free.
May it remain that way.
The whole tone of most of these whingers is "why should I have to pay £x to land" blah blah
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and the grass is just fine.
No I didn't think so.
I can see the grass will be just fine for rabbits, but who pays the man to fill the holes afterwards when no landing fees are charged?
Anybody thinking that the future of GA is farm strips in living in a dreamland.
But yes they should have given him the leeway in this case. The problem is that perhaps they can't (economically) because a percentage of the people working there are on strict union rules to watch the time exactly and make a big fuss if just over. It wouldn't suprise me if the airport gets a big £££ hit if certain employees are required to stay past the end of their duty.
Whether those employees are actually needed to facilitate the landing is a separate issue.
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Given the tragic events which led to the death of a highly respected member of staff at Kemble this week, the inability to a pilot to ensure he can do the job he set out to do, pales into complete insignificance.
I'm a bit suprised Monocock considers an unsubstantiated allegation regarding money is more newsworthy than the above.
Each to their own.
I'm a bit suprised Monocock considers an unsubstantiated allegation regarding money is more newsworthy than the above.
Each to their own.
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With all due respect an industrial accident has nothing to do with the issue being talked about here. There has been no thread hijack other than yours.
People die all the time, its life. Get over it.
People die all the time, its life. Get over it.
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Kemble states their side of the story
The flyer forum thread now includes an explanation and additional facts from the Ops manager at Kemble.
Worth reading
Seems to put this in perspective
SD
Worth reading
Seems to put this in perspective
SD
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and here it is:
BOSE - X
Normally I wouldn't give people like you the courtesy of a response, but this time I am going to bite.
Steve Mills was not only a very good friend, a close family member and a consumate professional, but he was also a gentleman of the first order.
Something which you may consider wishing to aspire to but I very much doubt you'll ever achieve.
Wow, this has certainly got peoples attention and it's time to put the record straight from a Kemble point of view. This has been a very trying and difficult week for us after the tragic accident here on Friday that claimed the life of our fire service boss, Steve Mills, and we will all miss him greatly.
The aircraft in question on Monday ppr'd to say he would be arriving at 1640hrs local, the aircraft was late and hastly joined on a right base from the Gloucester direction as he was running late. The aircraft confirmed that he did not have an indemnity to land after hours and the duty FISO (equally hastly) did say that an out of hours charge may apply. The aircraft landed at 1706hrs local and a £150 charge was mentioned (not on the radio) because 6 of our staff (3 x ops and 3 x Firemen) had to stay back to deal with it, not just the landing but the subsequent taxiing and ops staff in the tower had to hang around for the pilot to appear. Anyhow, the £150 was not paid and it was not even invoiced so no fee was forthcoming, we are not in the business of giving GA pilots grief but in this case a point had to be made because of the knock on effect.
Had the pilot requested to land out of hours we would have sorted him out with a form, taken his landing fee over the phone and none of this would ever had surfaced. This is the same way we would deal with any out of hours request and if you land before 1700 local you can depart anytime afterwards (unlicensed) and long as you make the correct blind calls and had a brief prior to leaving. Most of you on here have already stated how friendly and helpful we are, this is what we will always try to acheive but unfortunately a lot of us have worked a lot of hours (above and beyond the call of duty) over the last week dealing with the aftermath of the loss of a great friend and colleague.
If we ever fall short of not giving you all a better than average service then as Operations Manager I want to know about it and I would be happy for you to contact me direct on [email protected] and, as always, I will try and sort out any issues that you may have.
The aircraft in question on Monday ppr'd to say he would be arriving at 1640hrs local, the aircraft was late and hastly joined on a right base from the Gloucester direction as he was running late. The aircraft confirmed that he did not have an indemnity to land after hours and the duty FISO (equally hastly) did say that an out of hours charge may apply. The aircraft landed at 1706hrs local and a £150 charge was mentioned (not on the radio) because 6 of our staff (3 x ops and 3 x Firemen) had to stay back to deal with it, not just the landing but the subsequent taxiing and ops staff in the tower had to hang around for the pilot to appear. Anyhow, the £150 was not paid and it was not even invoiced so no fee was forthcoming, we are not in the business of giving GA pilots grief but in this case a point had to be made because of the knock on effect.
Had the pilot requested to land out of hours we would have sorted him out with a form, taken his landing fee over the phone and none of this would ever had surfaced. This is the same way we would deal with any out of hours request and if you land before 1700 local you can depart anytime afterwards (unlicensed) and long as you make the correct blind calls and had a brief prior to leaving. Most of you on here have already stated how friendly and helpful we are, this is what we will always try to acheive but unfortunately a lot of us have worked a lot of hours (above and beyond the call of duty) over the last week dealing with the aftermath of the loss of a great friend and colleague.
If we ever fall short of not giving you all a better than average service then as Operations Manager I want to know about it and I would be happy for you to contact me direct on [email protected] and, as always, I will try and sort out any issues that you may have.
People die all the time, its life. Get over it.
Steve Mills was not only a very good friend, a close family member and a consumate professional, but he was also a gentleman of the first order.
Something which you may consider wishing to aspire to but I very much doubt you'll ever achieve.
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Normally I wouldn't give people like you the courtesy of a response, but this time I am going to bite.
Steve Mills was not only a very good friend, a close family member and a consumate professional, but he was also a gentleman of the first order.
Something which you may consider wishing to aspire to but I very much doubt you'll ever achieve.
Steve Mills was not only a very good friend, a close family member and a consumate professional, but he was also a gentleman of the first order.
Something which you may consider wishing to aspire to but I very much doubt you'll ever achieve.
I would suggest that if you are so emotionally engaged in this guys death that you see insult to his name in every comment and have to respond with venom then you are doing an equal disservice to the memory you are trying to protect. Perhaps time to step back and leave the keyboard alone.
His death is absolutely nothing to do with the discussion in hand.
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Bosex - maybe the death of that man influenced how the staff at Kemble were feeling / behaving? Of course, had you been there they would have gotten over it within minutes; people die all the time after all. 
So-cal - regardless of what point bosex was trying to make, the bit about "People die all the time, its life. Get over it" is unnecessarily aggressive and insensitive.
So-cal - regardless of what point bosex was trying to make, the bit about "People die all the time, its life. Get over it" is unnecessarily aggressive and insensitive.
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If it was looked at out of context bose's comment would seem callous, but what has the sad death got to do with the landing fee? 
SoCal:
How lucky you are to live and fly where there aren't usually any landing fees and, on the rare occasions when there are, they are very reasonable.
SoCal:
How lucky you are to live and fly where there aren't usually any landing fees and, on the rare occasions when there are, they are very reasonable.
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If it was looked at out of context bose's comment would seem callous, but what has the sad death got to do with the landing fee?
I may seem callous to the casual observer, but I did not know the guy that died at Kemble, I did not know the motorcyclicst who died so I have no emotional involvement and won't pretend otherwise.
This thread until it was hijacked was someone having a gripe about landing fees and that is something that does effect us all. I am interested to see it pan out and see both sides of the story which are starting to come out now.
Let's leave the emotion out of it.
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I can't argue with your point, bose, however for most it is basic human etiquette to show some respect for those emotionally involved and not be so callous.
At least your comment was in bad taste and totally unnecessary!
BB
At least your comment was in bad taste and totally unnecessary!
BB
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Seeing as how we seem intent on side tracking the thread.
Please explain to me how me pointing out that the death of an individual from an unrelated industrial accident should have any bearing on Monococks right to complain about a landing fee? I have no idea if the recent death of a member of the Kemble staff had any bearing on the professionalism of the staff or not. If they were that compromised that it had bearing on this discussion then it opens up a whole new discussion.
As it is Kemble have responded to the discussion and shown both sides of the story. As seems to be the case with these things there are indeed two sides to the story.
Just because someone knows someone who has died does not make it right to attempt to censure free speech.
There is a thread running that allows people to pay tribute to the gentleman concerned.
Please explain to me how me pointing out that the death of an individual from an unrelated industrial accident should have any bearing on Monococks right to complain about a landing fee? I have no idea if the recent death of a member of the Kemble staff had any bearing on the professionalism of the staff or not. If they were that compromised that it had bearing on this discussion then it opens up a whole new discussion.
As it is Kemble have responded to the discussion and shown both sides of the story. As seems to be the case with these things there are indeed two sides to the story.
Just because someone knows someone who has died does not make it right to attempt to censure free speech.
There is a thread running that allows people to pay tribute to the gentleman concerned.
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The sad death does have nothing to do with landing fees - everyone is agreed about that. However a comment like 'get over it' was a direct attack on how an individual chooses to deal with their grief. Trying to pretend otherwise while dragging out the landing fee issue is a classic diversionary tactic. Very sad that someone with such qualifications and status in the industry sets such an example.