Kemble - disgraceful behaviour - or not?
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blagger, exactly, well said!
Having the right to free speech and exercising it, as you have, does not give automatic credence to the words spoken.
What surprises me, bose, is you inability to recognise your insensitivity!
Hopefully the management at Kemble will recognise they could have handled the situation a little better and make the necessary action to prevent it happening again.
BB
Having the right to free speech and exercising it, as you have, does not give automatic credence to the words spoken.
What surprises me, bose, is you inability to recognise your insensitivity!
Hopefully the management at Kemble will recognise they could have handled the situation a little better and make the necessary action to prevent it happening again.
BB
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Sorry, I am must be missing something here. I have never claimed to be all sensitive and cuddly, l will leave that to the Guardian readers. I have merely made point that diverting the thread around an unconnected matter is bizarre.
Let's avoid trying to emotionally blackmail me into having a connection with a complete stranger to satisfy your own needs to vent grief?
Reading the tributes to the gentleman in question I have no doubt he was a fine person. I did not know him and don't want to be dragged into an emotional fray around a stranger.
Making personal attacks about me because you don't like my stance on dealing with death would appear to lower people to the very level they are vilifying.....
Sorry if that offends people.
Let's avoid trying to emotionally blackmail me into having a connection with a complete stranger to satisfy your own needs to vent grief?
Reading the tributes to the gentleman in question I have no doubt he was a fine person. I did not know him and don't want to be dragged into an emotional fray around a stranger.
Making personal attacks about me because you don't like my stance on dealing with death would appear to lower people to the very level they are vilifying.....
Sorry if that offends people.
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This is getting silly now.
My last comment on this!
Bose, you are repeatedly defending your comments in a way many find distasteful and accusing people of personal attacks.
IMHO you are well aware of the point people are trying to make, as explained well by blagger, and I would go as far as to say that face to face I do not believe you would have used the words 'get over it' to someone who was emotionally involved, albeit the reason for not doing so may be the knowledge that there would be a high probability of an understandable physical attack in retaliation.
BB
My last comment on this!
Bose, you are repeatedly defending your comments in a way many find distasteful and accusing people of personal attacks.
IMHO you are well aware of the point people are trying to make, as explained well by blagger, and I would go as far as to say that face to face I do not believe you would have used the words 'get over it' to someone who was emotionally involved, albeit the reason for not doing so may be the knowledge that there would be a high probability of an understandable physical attack in retaliation.
BB
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The original complaint on the Flyer Forum was posted by the pilot's ex-instructor. I wonder if he is going to offer his ex-stude a free nav lesson, as the 26' ETA error indicates there might be some weaknesses in that area.
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This is getting silly now.
We all deal with death in our own way. I am clearly able to get over it in a different way to others. Others need to get over it in their own way just don't get on the soapbox and expect everyone to agree with you.
It's natural for people to be badly affected by an incident such as the accident at Kemble. However, if they are affected to the point where it it is having a negative effect on their performance or professionlism, perhaps they should be taking some time off; this is a safety critical business, after all.
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This is going around in circles now, please remember there is a condolences thread running in this forum and it can not be nice for his friends, colleagues to be reading this bickering.
Enough of the life/death issue, back to the OP's point in his post please.
Enough of the life/death issue, back to the OP's point in his post please.
Thread Starter
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Couldn't agree more BRL.
Oh and by the way dancowpie:
If you go to the link below you might realise it is sometimes better to engage one's brain before one's mouth.
FLYER Forums • View topic - Steve Mills RIP
Oh and by the way dancowpie:
I'm a bit suprised Monocock considers an unsubstantiated allegation regarding money is more newsworthy than the above.
Each to their own.
Each to their own.
FLYER Forums • View topic - Steve Mills RIP
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1. A pilot landed out of hours
2. The pilot was not charged £150.00
3. The ex instructor states that the ex student will not return to the airfield in question
4. The End
2. The pilot was not charged £150.00
3. The ex instructor states that the ex student will not return to the airfield in question
4. The End
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Out of interest, when an airfield has a clearly published closing time, states this in the PPR, states it on the radio, includes mentioning an out of hours charge... and then re-iterates what the charge should be (but does not impose it)... How late should you be able to land, taxi in and shut down after that time, and with all that advice, and just be told "welcome", and ignore the effect that 6+ staff have stayed after knock off time?
Oh, and given the thread's title
can someone remind what the "disgraceful" part of their behaviour was please?
We have in the UK a variety of airfield types, catering for different needs. Kemble is hardly the cheapest place for a "bimble" type aeroplane on a low budget - so yes, maybe these types might find other places more suitable for a quick cuppa. However, Kemble offers many facilities for "other" users that require suitable staffing / facilities that "cost".
In addition, there are non-aviation activities, including using the runway, that require a level of regulation of visitors / out of hours use, that as indicated above, are available if desired. That requirement clearly does not apply to some other airfields, but just because unlicensed / non-RT / no paperwork works at 'Little Grassy in Nowhere' does not mean, IMHO, it should therefore apply to Kemble.
IMHO Kemble 1 Late Pilot 0 - in fact Late Pilot's ex-instructor -1 for then whinging on here
NoD
Oh, and given the thread's title
Kemble - disgraceful behaviour
We have in the UK a variety of airfield types, catering for different needs. Kemble is hardly the cheapest place for a "bimble" type aeroplane on a low budget - so yes, maybe these types might find other places more suitable for a quick cuppa. However, Kemble offers many facilities for "other" users that require suitable staffing / facilities that "cost".
In addition, there are non-aviation activities, including using the runway, that require a level of regulation of visitors / out of hours use, that as indicated above, are available if desired. That requirement clearly does not apply to some other airfields, but just because unlicensed / non-RT / no paperwork works at 'Little Grassy in Nowhere' does not mean, IMHO, it should therefore apply to Kemble.
IMHO Kemble 1 Late Pilot 0 - in fact Late Pilot's ex-instructor -1 for then whinging on here
NoD
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IMHO Kemble 1 Late Pilot 0 - in fact Late Pilot's ex-instructor -1 for then whinging
Well done to the thread originator for drawing (additional) attention to what might happen if you land late.
A useful reminder.
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can someone remind what the "disgraceful" part of their behaviour was please?
Making remarks about the staff and management of Kemble to cover up a lack of flight planning strikes me as unwise, if not actually disgraceful.
I certainly don't have all the facts, but based just on what I have read in this thread, I don't think that "Kemble Airport" are the bad guys here.
Lets not Knock Kemble
This thread says more about some peoples attitude with regard to aviation than about the "Non Incident".
I have used Kemble for both commercial and "puddle jumping" flights the operation is a model for GA and we are lucky to have such a facility available in the UK.
To fully understand the thankless task of being an airfield operator you have to be one which of course leaves out 99% of pilots.
Not only are you required to operate under the auspicies of the CAA and Europe but then you can add on the quite onerous task of being a target for the local planning authority, the potential cost of which makes the normal regulation fees see almost reasonable.
Kemble have had two "attacks" on their operations (one at Kemble and one at LLanbedr). They survived the local one (at great cost to themselves) but LLanbedr (a potential operation) is still lost to GA at present.
Flying is a community situation and not understanding other peoples operational requirements does not help the system to work,cooperation should be the word, not complaining.
I have used Kemble for both commercial and "puddle jumping" flights the operation is a model for GA and we are lucky to have such a facility available in the UK.
To fully understand the thankless task of being an airfield operator you have to be one which of course leaves out 99% of pilots.
Not only are you required to operate under the auspicies of the CAA and Europe but then you can add on the quite onerous task of being a target for the local planning authority, the potential cost of which makes the normal regulation fees see almost reasonable.
Kemble have had two "attacks" on their operations (one at Kemble and one at LLanbedr). They survived the local one (at great cost to themselves) but LLanbedr (a potential operation) is still lost to GA at present.
Flying is a community situation and not understanding other peoples operational requirements does not help the system to work,cooperation should be the word, not complaining.
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As a disinterested party, I see two causes behind this aggro
1) a student pilot planning to arrive within 20 minutes of the closing time of an airfield
2) an airfield giving permission to a student planning to arrive within 20 minutes of the closing time
When I was a stude (and for some time after), I sometimes ran late (usually through my slowness in checking the aircraft after finding something unexpected, running through the checks etc) and I didn't have the skill or experience to know how to manage it.
It sounds as if both parties carry some of the responsibility to me.
1) a student pilot planning to arrive within 20 minutes of the closing time of an airfield
2) an airfield giving permission to a student planning to arrive within 20 minutes of the closing time
When I was a stude (and for some time after), I sometimes ran late (usually through my slowness in checking the aircraft after finding something unexpected, running through the checks etc) and I didn't have the skill or experience to know how to manage it.
It sounds as if both parties carry some of the responsibility to me.
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Hoodie
I don't subscribe to Flyer, here is post #1in this thread
If it was a PPL, then it puts a different slant on things.
Socal
The point may be moot now, but if an airfield accepts a student flight, then it should expect that one or two things may not be as polished as an experienced pilot.
Yes, the instructor who let the flight plan things so tight would obviously have to take a share of the load.
I don't subscribe to Flyer, here is post #1in this thread
A stude landed at Kemble just after 5 the other day and was presented with a £150 landing fee and told that he had landed 2 minutes out of hours (he wasn't told in the air) and everyone had to be paid half an hours overtime.
That stinks. He won't be going there again. Their loss.
That stinks. He won't be going there again. Their loss.
Socal
The point may be moot now, but if an airfield accepts a student flight, then it should expect that one or two things may not be as polished as an experienced pilot.
Yes, the instructor who let the flight plan things so tight would obviously have to take a share of the load.
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hoodie
I just cut and paste the whole of post #1 from this thread.
http://www.pprune.org/private-flying...behaviour.html
I just cut and paste the whole of post #1 from this thread.
http://www.pprune.org/private-flying...behaviour.html
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Final3, where'd you get that from?
Originally Posted by Morley
Originally Posted by Iceman
Steve, is this the same ex-student of your who had a flat tyre in the Cirrus at Kemble on Sunday, and I had to rescue with his passengers in the Seneca ? If so, he's having an expensive time of it.
Iceman 8)
Iceman 8)