Kemble - disgraceful behaviour - or not?

[Lasiorhinus]

Im coming from a background where there is no such thing as an airport being "closed" unless the runway is actually unserviceable - but I am absolutely at a loss to understand why you can't land at an unmanned airfield. Most places I land at are hundreds of kilometres from the nearest source of electricity.

Why do these people need to stay on past 5 o'clock just because someone is going to land a light aircraft?

[NigelOnDraft]

Im coming from a background where there is no such thing as an airport being "closed" unless the runway is actually unserviceable

So if, say, out of hours the runway was being used for testing race cars, it's still good practice for people to just land there unannounced and hope everybody misses each other

NoD

[Rod1]

It is quite normal to land at an unmanned airfield with no radio even in the UK. There are more such landing grounds in the UK than there are licensed airfields. 100’s of pilots are trained at such places and the accident rate is low. We have 24 aircraft based at our strip. We use Safty Com and do a lot of flying all over Europe. You just do not need anything other than 600m of grass (probably less) to fly VFR dawn to dusk.

Rod1

[NigelOnDraft]

Rod1...

Not sure who your post is addressed to? However, since mine precedes it, I will assume me

I am quite familiar with small airfields, LAA types, grass strips, non-RT. I might even own shares in 1, or even more, LAA aircraft We might even live on, and base an aircraft at, a private strip... with no radio / tower (or even orange windsock). We might even be building a (second) LAA type

However, just because I (and you?) do, does it mean Kemble, or even LHR, also has to operate that way?

NoD

[Lasiorhinus]

Thanks, Rod.
Id certainly got the impression from Pprune that every airfield was "manned". Good to see theres still some normal regular country airstrips

How does it work with manned fields? I'm still unsure why you cant land there after everyone has gone home. Is it a legal requirement?

Nigel, if a runway was being used for a purpose such as testing race cars, that would certainly render the runway unserviceable, and as such would be NOTAMmed for any certified/licensed aerodrome. If its a private aerodrome, they'd tell you when you called ahead for permission to land, and you'd plan accordingly.

[silverknapper]

Again I don't see any fault on the part of Kemble at all. Well publicised hours etc etc. Where do they draw the line? I wonder if the student would work for free in his/her profession for no reason other than the 'customers' ignorance? The instructor kicking up the stink needs to do a bit of self reflection before they start posting crap on pprune.

I have used Kemble a few times, always found them nothing other than friendly, welcoming and helpful. Last visit a few weeks ago I had to be there first thing on a Sunday morning to pick someone up. Spoke to them the night before and they couldn't have been nicer. Even offering to let me in if I arrived ten mins early.

I take a different view from Rod in that I think GA would suffer badly were it not for places like Kemble. It has other activities going on to make money, the F1 testing etc. Hopefully (though with a big H) this will keep costs to GA in check. Lovely cafe makes it a Sunday afternoon type of venue for interested parties which I hope keeps interest alive. Chuck in some interesting airplanes dotted about and I guess it just is a nice place for aviation people to go.
Private grass strips are wonderful and have their place, but some people need avgas, or indeed Jet A1, and have a preference for tarmac, be it for performance, or indeed structural reasons. The type of infrastructure, even in a small operation like kemble, doesn't come cheap. Had said student departed the runway and became trapped in some wreckage I'm sure he wouldn't have complained about the fire crew staying back.

[NigelOnDraft]

Nigel, if a runway was being used for a purpose such as testing race cars, that would certainly render the runway unserviceable, and as such would be NOTAMmed for any certified/licensed aerodrome..

Perhaps it is Kemble's experience that the sort of people that pitch up out of hours, don't read the NOTAMS either In fact, general UK GA expeirence would suggest that the NOTAM system is not a good way to keep things safe (both the lack of people bothering to read them, and the poor facilities in being able to read them).

If its a private aerodrome, they'd tell you when you called ahead for permission to land, and you'd plan accordingly

They told him the closing time when he called ahead, but he failed to "plan accordingly". Once they are closed, there is nobody to "call".

We don't tend to have "public" aerodromes here, apart from a few Govt/Military ones... they are all "private".

Kemble is a busy airfield, and effectively "industrial" complex, with numerous businesses operating, including using runways etc. PPR etc. might be over used at some airfields, but Kemble is not one of them IMHO

NoD

[Final 3 Greens]

The last pilot who landed on a runway being used for car racing was, IIRC, an airline pilot

[PompeyPaul]

NOTAM

Perhaps it is Kemble's experience that the sort of people that pitch up out of hours, don't read the NOTAMS either

Maybe it's just me that thinks the NOTAM poimulgation is the most unintuitive and use unfriendly IT system I've come across.

If we seriously want to avoid issues, due to pilots missing NOTAMs, then sorting out the AIS website would be a great start.

Having to use an archaic language such as "DCT GWC DCT SAM DCT OCK" for a narrow route brief to cover the area I'm flying in is just asking for mistakes.

I don't think it would take much to add a "point and click" interface so that pilots can point at where they're flying to / from and the NOTAMs automagically appear. I bet it would lead to tangibly fewer airspace infrigements right there.

[Shrimps]

SkyDemon Light

New from NATS to reduce infringements - makes it a lot easier to get a narrow route, though not quite so useful for simply 'bimbling'.

[wigglyamp]

I always use the French NOTAM service even for the UK - very easy, intuitive and you don't have to register/remember passwords etc.

SIA - La rfrence en information aronautique

[mur007]

And how many nimbys does your airport have to contend with if it proposes to to so much as erect a new windsock?

I think most UK pilots would love things to be more like they are in the US but for a number of reasons I don't think it will happen.

[pulse1]

Is it possible that the OP could change the heading for this thread. It is now obvious that, although they might have handled the situation better, Kemble have been far from demonstrating "disgraceful behaviour".

I have no particular interest in supporting Kemble as it is not one of my favourite destinations although it is within range of the traditional sandwich run for me. I just think that it is a bit unfair when this heading keeps coming up in my search for new posts.

[dstevens]

There is one factor here which seems to me is largely being ignored by most folks posting......

.....most airfields are PRIVATE PROPERTY that require PERMISSION from the owner BEFORE you land at them.

Try turning up at your local restaurant after they closed, banging on the door, and telling them that you have a "right" to a meal......

[reportyourlevel]

runway was being used for a purpose such as testing race cars, that would certainly render the runway unserviceable, and as such would be NOTAMmed for any certified/licensed aerodrome

Why would I NOTAM a runway "closure" during the published hours of aerodrome closure?