Confused and frustrated
Thread Starter
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Ireland
Age: 36
Posts: 83
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Thanks everyone for the advice,
i don't think gliding would be for me at the moment. First off i don't think i could afford it and in the long run i would like to go all the way to a CPL (don't slate me). my idea was to do the ppl first and see how it goes.
Just to let ye know i completed my slow flight, stalls and turning stalls in my last lesson which put the smile back on my face
.
As for the gliding, its something i'd love to try, someday.
Thanks again
i don't think gliding would be for me at the moment. First off i don't think i could afford it and in the long run i would like to go all the way to a CPL (don't slate me). my idea was to do the ppl first and see how it goes.
Just to let ye know i completed my slow flight, stalls and turning stalls in my last lesson which put the smile back on my face
.As for the gliding, its something i'd love to try, someday.
Thanks again
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Oxford, UK
Posts: 1,546
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
O dear. Very very dear. N5296S is quite correct, in the US of A gliding IS VERY EXPENSIVE. Thats because it is usually a privately owned operation trying to make money.
As opposed to the UK and Ireland where it is usually a club run for the benefit of the members. So over here, it is relatively cheap.
I have no idea what flying a power plane costs these days, at a guess, more than £90 ph? That will eat up your savings, all right.
On the other hand, if you have a trial lesson at Shenington (my club) it will cost you £40. For a winch launch. INCLUDING THREE MONTHS MEMBERSHIP!
Now that three month membership means that when you turn up again,you are expected to help out along with everyone else, and pay £7 for a winch launch. The instructor is doing it for love. So you really can afford a lot of takeoffs and landings, no worry that you can't go around, we don't usually mess up our landings.
As I surmised, Mighty Ducks would like to go for the commercial license, no harm in that. And to achieve the commercial license will be a source of great pride and satisfaction. So good luck with your plans.
As opposed to the UK and Ireland where it is usually a club run for the benefit of the members. So over here, it is relatively cheap.
I have no idea what flying a power plane costs these days, at a guess, more than £90 ph? That will eat up your savings, all right.
On the other hand, if you have a trial lesson at Shenington (my club) it will cost you £40. For a winch launch. INCLUDING THREE MONTHS MEMBERSHIP!
Now that three month membership means that when you turn up again,you are expected to help out along with everyone else, and pay £7 for a winch launch. The instructor is doing it for love. So you really can afford a lot of takeoffs and landings, no worry that you can't go around, we don't usually mess up our landings.
As I surmised, Mighty Ducks would like to go for the commercial license, no harm in that. And to achieve the commercial license will be a source of great pride and satisfaction. So good luck with your plans.
Moderator
Hmmm..
We're sorry to have possibly offended Mary!
Let's say that power planes are like apples, and gliders are like oranges. We all have heard that both apples, and oranges are just great, and perhaps we've had the chance to try both... But,
If the objective is to eat apples, eating oranges won't quite do it. Sure, oranges are great, and satisfying, but they're still not apples!
If you have an objective to eat apples, eat apples. If you have an objective to broaden your horizons, then certainly eat oranges too, or instead. If you can afford to eat oranges more than apples, this is no longer a discussion about pilot training (sorry, fruit eating), but budgeting.
If both the power plane, and the glider, were sitting on the ramp side by side, none of us would be recommending to the Mighty, that he/she accept the flight school swapping back and forth between these aircraft types, as was reported about the swapping of instructors.
At this stage, consistancy!
We're sorry to have possibly offended Mary!
Let's say that power planes are like apples, and gliders are like oranges. We all have heard that both apples, and oranges are just great, and perhaps we've had the chance to try both... But,
If the objective is to eat apples, eating oranges won't quite do it. Sure, oranges are great, and satisfying, but they're still not apples!
If you have an objective to eat apples, eat apples. If you have an objective to broaden your horizons, then certainly eat oranges too, or instead. If you can afford to eat oranges more than apples, this is no longer a discussion about pilot training (sorry, fruit eating), but budgeting.
If both the power plane, and the glider, were sitting on the ramp side by side, none of us would be recommending to the Mighty, that he/she accept the flight school swapping back and forth between these aircraft types, as was reported about the swapping of instructors.
At this stage, consistancy!
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Oxford, UK
Posts: 1,546
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Not really, Molesworth. I havn't recently made a survey of charges at other clubs, they probably differ quite a lot. So mentioned ours for comparisons.
The point I was trying to make is that in the USA power flying is relatively cheap. As the entire nation is addicted to petrol, no politician dares to load any significant duty onto fuel. Furthermore, private flying in the US is accorded respect and opportunity to fly in wide open spaces, free landings at every municipal airport, turn the lights on at night by pressing your transmit button, and welcomed into airways by enroute radar services. They appreciate your call and keep track of you and let you know about sigmets, I could go on and on.
But gliding in the US? a very very poor relation. Governed, alas by the government, alias the FAA. Which certifies instructors who have NEVER EVEN BEEN CROSS COUNTRY! So gliding enterprises are pretty much on a hiding to nowhere. Sending up two punters at a time in a tin shed for a sightseeing bimble. ( If you want to fly a decent glider in the US, import one from Europe)
Consequently, the few gliding CLUBS that survive over there are haunts of expatriate europeans; and most American gliding is somebody trying to make a buck.
In the US, gliding is more expensive than power.
In Europe, gliding is cheaper than power.
Please tell me I'm wrong!
The point I was trying to make is that in the USA power flying is relatively cheap. As the entire nation is addicted to petrol, no politician dares to load any significant duty onto fuel. Furthermore, private flying in the US is accorded respect and opportunity to fly in wide open spaces, free landings at every municipal airport, turn the lights on at night by pressing your transmit button, and welcomed into airways by enroute radar services. They appreciate your call and keep track of you and let you know about sigmets, I could go on and on.
But gliding in the US? a very very poor relation. Governed, alas by the government, alias the FAA. Which certifies instructors who have NEVER EVEN BEEN CROSS COUNTRY! So gliding enterprises are pretty much on a hiding to nowhere. Sending up two punters at a time in a tin shed for a sightseeing bimble. ( If you want to fly a decent glider in the US, import one from Europe)
Consequently, the few gliding CLUBS that survive over there are haunts of expatriate europeans; and most American gliding is somebody trying to make a buck.
In the US, gliding is more expensive than power.
In Europe, gliding is cheaper than power.
Please tell me I'm wrong!
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Virginia
Posts: 5
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
you must have been a natural if you were landing on your own in 8 hours. I have 60 hours in and still have no solo because my landings are not consistent. One problem I believe was changing the plane I flew, but another issue I believe was my instructor saw me as a cash cow and wasn't helping me to develop the skills I needed to develop my landings. I suppose getting nervous about blowing one landing after another didn't help. How did you do it so quickly?
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Oxford, UK
Posts: 1,546
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I had a lot of trouble learning to land, way back in 1983.
After 30 or so glider flights on aerotow at Booker, I went over to the USA and flew a Cessna 152 with John Cumberpatch at a small strip just over the Chesapeake Bay Bridge.
Where it was always a strong crosswind! The airfield, alas, had not been planned to take advantage of the prevailing winds.
So poor old John, as soon as this old woman got to the point of touching down, had to take control to avoid major problems.
Just possibly, you are flying at a difficult site? Landing into wind helps a lot.
After 30 or so glider flights on aerotow at Booker, I went over to the USA and flew a Cessna 152 with John Cumberpatch at a small strip just over the Chesapeake Bay Bridge.
Where it was always a strong crosswind! The airfield, alas, had not been planned to take advantage of the prevailing winds.
So poor old John, as soon as this old woman got to the point of touching down, had to take control to avoid major problems.
Just possibly, you are flying at a difficult site? Landing into wind helps a lot.
Join Date: May 2001
Posts: 10,815
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
You know when ever I read about 20 plus hours to solo. I just want to get my hands on the student and sort them out.
Ask your instructor to take you out of the circuit and practise basic skills eg trimming for speeds configuring the aircraft and even striaght and level in TRIM.
Ask your instructor to take you out of the circuit and practise basic skills eg trimming for speeds configuring the aircraft and even striaght and level in TRIM.
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: 23, Railway Cuttings, East Cheam
Age: 68
Posts: 3,115
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Does anyone think it's easier to fly powered if they have gliding time or is it like having thousands of hours on a flight sim, an instructors nightmare?
I have to say one thing that continually amazes me as a glider guy about powered flying is the amount of deaths/serious injuries when the fan stops and you have to field land. Is it that hard to put a spamcan in a field? I've done a lot of bimbling around in SEP's and even as a non PPL I would be pretty confident about plonking one in a field safely. Am I missing something here? Is it because I'm always looking for a field to land in? (I even do it as a passenger on airliners sadly enough, 'Yes that pasture looks big enough to put a 777 down') No disrespect to those who have tried and died by the way.
I have to say one thing that continually amazes me as a glider guy about powered flying is the amount of deaths/serious injuries when the fan stops and you have to field land. Is it that hard to put a spamcan in a field? I've done a lot of bimbling around in SEP's and even as a non PPL I would be pretty confident about plonking one in a field safely. Am I missing something here? Is it because I'm always looking for a field to land in? (I even do it as a passenger on airliners sadly enough, 'Yes that pasture looks big enough to put a 777 down') No disrespect to those who have tried and died by the way.
Join Date: May 2001
Posts: 10,815
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Apart from calming down with the rudder inputs I haven't had any issues with glider powered converstions.
Although one of the sods when i pulled the power on him for a PFL started gaining altitude. When asked "what are you doing" his cunning plan was to move the aircraft 10 miles or so along the ridge gain another 500 ft then land at a disused field. Reckon he would have done it as well.
They are though utterly pants on the radio.
And it isn't hard its all about currency. Most spam drivers don't practise steep turns PFL's and the like. They maybe do an hour a month bimble or burger run and thats it. Maybe every 2 years with an instructor they hamfisted get through an hour and promise themsleves they will go up for an hour to practise but they never do. If the pilot has been a reasonably high houred instructor the currency doesn't seem to matter so much. Its proberly to do with the fact you have demonstrated the things that often your muscle memory is well and truely programmed. And demonstrating a PFL from the RHS but doing a LHS "circuit" means that 90% of the time you don't see the field your going for anyway until you turn in for your constant aspect approach. Tends to develop your SA about what where how your doing it.
Although one of the sods when i pulled the power on him for a PFL started gaining altitude. When asked "what are you doing" his cunning plan was to move the aircraft 10 miles or so along the ridge gain another 500 ft then land at a disused field. Reckon he would have done it as well.
They are though utterly pants on the radio.
And it isn't hard its all about currency. Most spam drivers don't practise steep turns PFL's and the like. They maybe do an hour a month bimble or burger run and thats it. Maybe every 2 years with an instructor they hamfisted get through an hour and promise themsleves they will go up for an hour to practise but they never do. If the pilot has been a reasonably high houred instructor the currency doesn't seem to matter so much. Its proberly to do with the fact you have demonstrated the things that often your muscle memory is well and truely programmed. And demonstrating a PFL from the RHS but doing a LHS "circuit" means that 90% of the time you don't see the field your going for anyway until you turn in for your constant aspect approach. Tends to develop your SA about what where how your doing it.
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: London UK
Posts: 517
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Re Field landings easier in gliders, a few things spring to mind:
Better L/D ratio gives you more choices,
Lower sink rate gives you more time,
no fuel to catch fire,
pilot has more practice.
Better L/D ratio gives you more choices,
Lower sink rate gives you more time,
no fuel to catch fire,
pilot has more practice.
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: United Kingdom
Age: 33
Posts: 1
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I feel exactly the same!
Hi, Ive just had my 8th lesson (only 5hrs 40 all together though!) and I've had 5 different instructors! I have good lessons and bad lessons. Some lessons I come away feeling really happy and confident and others I come away feeling like I've taken a step back. Due to funds I can only have 2 lessons a month, which works out ok, but with the weather they often get cancelled and it can be three or four weeks in between lessons! Meaning I forget basic things and have to relearn certain things. however I still feel like i'm slowly progressing I am doing a lot more radio calls and have done a few circuits (instructor decided last lesson that weather was unsuitable for slow flight - which is what i was meant to be doing!) which was an interesting experience! haha.
Although I think I feel a bit differently about it to you, I think with all the gaps between lessons that I could probably do with repeating some bits. Do you find that you need to ask loads of questions after a lesson or before the next one? I feel I should be but can never think of any, even if I don't feel completely happy about the lesson, I just figure I need more practice.
I would definatley ask them about the possibility of having one instructor, that way they are more likely to be able to discuss your progress with you. I think I might do the same.
Good luck with it all, I hope you find a way that works for you!
Brooke
Although I think I feel a bit differently about it to you, I think with all the gaps between lessons that I could probably do with repeating some bits. Do you find that you need to ask loads of questions after a lesson or before the next one? I feel I should be but can never think of any, even if I don't feel completely happy about the lesson, I just figure I need more practice.
I would definatley ask them about the possibility of having one instructor, that way they are more likely to be able to discuss your progress with you. I think I might do the same.
Good luck with it all, I hope you find a way that works for you!
Brooke
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Swindon, Wiltshire
Age: 49
Posts: 862
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
To me, eight lessons with five instructors isn't the right way to be learning - especially at the beginning. I think you should demand a bit more consistency - you're the customer after all!
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Oxford, UK
Posts: 1,546
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Findyourwings, its a real problem getting the dosh together for flying. BUT...
amazingly, January is often a good time with sometimes a high pressure lingering over the British Isles...ask a weather expert if there are other calm weeks over the winter....
Why? because you want to SAVE your money up and then fly five days in a row, or at least four, and then you will make real progress. With same instructor of course. Possibly several hours, with a lunch break, each day.
O yes it will cost a lot for that week, perhaps your bank manager would cooperate, or the flying club make a special arrangment, never hurts to ask.
What I am getting at is the best way to progress is to have a lot of instruction in a short time. Winter is often a good time because flying clubs are not often so busy in the winter. And light aircraft usually have HEATERS anyway! Further more as thermals are rare, the air is smoother, and the air is thicker, being colder, so aircraft performance is much better...Wright Brothers found that out right away. (Kitty Hawk in Jan. better than Ohio in July!)
Anyway, flying only once every two weeks with different instructors is guaranteed to make you feel worse than the frog in the well.
Good luck! Let us know how you get on.
amazingly, January is often a good time with sometimes a high pressure lingering over the British Isles...ask a weather expert if there are other calm weeks over the winter....
Why? because you want to SAVE your money up and then fly five days in a row, or at least four, and then you will make real progress. With same instructor of course. Possibly several hours, with a lunch break, each day.
O yes it will cost a lot for that week, perhaps your bank manager would cooperate, or the flying club make a special arrangment, never hurts to ask.
What I am getting at is the best way to progress is to have a lot of instruction in a short time. Winter is often a good time because flying clubs are not often so busy in the winter. And light aircraft usually have HEATERS anyway! Further more as thermals are rare, the air is smoother, and the air is thicker, being colder, so aircraft performance is much better...Wright Brothers found that out right away. (Kitty Hawk in Jan. better than Ohio in July!)
Anyway, flying only once every two weeks with different instructors is guaranteed to make you feel worse than the frog in the well.
Good luck! Let us know how you get on.
