10 things that annoy you in aviation.
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I agree with the "students who go out and kit up to look cool" one, however:
1. People who think you need to either fly F-16's or privately own a pitts special in order to wear a nice pair of sunglasses.
2. People who think that class G airspace rules dictate that all aircraft shall give way to aircraft with aerobatic capability.
1. People who think you need to either fly F-16's or privately own a pitts special in order to wear a nice pair of sunglasses.
2. People who think that class G airspace rules dictate that all aircraft shall give way to aircraft with aerobatic capability.
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Its not really, its just something that the south coast Clubs seem to make a big deal out of. There is an almost religious sect down there about it. They have Channel crossing checkouts, channel currency etc etc A right money and hours spinner for clubs.
Once you get North of Gamston they don't make such a fuss about it.
The 2 folk that have asked me about it. I have pointed towards this forum. They posted, someone nice pm'd them with a checklist, they went off and flew across the channel. When they got back I asked them about it and they were very none plussed about the whole thing. They said it was like flying to Barra but you could actually get fuel, the locals could speak English you could understand and there wasn't sodding great hills between you and your diversion.
I have flown across the channel many times but its always been IFR burning JetA.
Once you get North of Gamston they don't make such a fuss about it.
The 2 folk that have asked me about it. I have pointed towards this forum. They posted, someone nice pm'd them with a checklist, they went off and flew across the channel. When they got back I asked them about it and they were very none plussed about the whole thing. They said it was like flying to Barra but you could actually get fuel, the locals could speak English you could understand and there wasn't sodding great hills between you and your diversion.
I have flown across the channel many times but its always been IFR burning JetA.
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Mad Jock
I have to agree with this:-
Its not really, its just something that the south coast Clubs seem to make a big deal out of. There is an almost religious sect down there about it. They have Channel crossing checkouts, channel currency etc etc A right money and hours spinner for clubs.
However you are still missing the point, it is not about just "channel crossing" it is about finding that the guy you are checking out on a new type can't lean the mixture, set a % power for altitude, has no idea what the fuel flow is for the power setting he is using, has no idea what the TAS is for his selected power setting and has no idea what his endurance could be.
The trouble is that these things seem to get "left out" of the PPL course, not by the older career instructors but by the guys who are counting each hour (and penny) towards the jet job they are dreaming of.
Most of these aspiring jet jockeys teach the basics well but fail to get to grips with the performance part of the flight manual and so don't teach the student how to "travel" in an aircraft .............. and if the student is female................. just don't get me started on that subject!
All a bit off topic for this thread but I had to reply.
Its not really, its just something that the south coast Clubs seem to make a big deal out of. There is an almost religious sect down there about it. They have Channel crossing checkouts, channel currency etc etc A right money and hours spinner for clubs.
However you are still missing the point, it is not about just "channel crossing" it is about finding that the guy you are checking out on a new type can't lean the mixture, set a % power for altitude, has no idea what the fuel flow is for the power setting he is using, has no idea what the TAS is for his selected power setting and has no idea what his endurance could be.
The trouble is that these things seem to get "left out" of the PPL course, not by the older career instructors but by the guys who are counting each hour (and penny) towards the jet job they are dreaming of.
Most of these aspiring jet jockeys teach the basics well but fail to get to grips with the performance part of the flight manual and so don't teach the student how to "travel" in an aircraft .............. and if the student is female................. just don't get me started on that subject!
All a bit off topic for this thread but I had to reply.
Originally Posted by B2N2
2.Poop-suites worn in a single
13. People who write "suite" when they mean "suit"
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I am in full agreement with you on that A n C.
I think the term we are looking for is most instructors are as much use as tits on a bull for anything that doesn't have an exercise number.
And we now have 200 hour isntructors who were taught by 200 hour instructors etc etc. So as we have said before the industry is Knackard.
I think the term we are looking for is most instructors are as much use as tits on a bull for anything that doesn't have an exercise number.
And we now have 200 hour isntructors who were taught by 200 hour instructors etc etc. So as we have said before the industry is Knackard.
Moderator
To me all annoyances seem to come from a single source:
Zeee Govt!
Zeee Govt!
Those people who have volunteered their time to participate in working groups, committees, and similar contributing efforts to the betterment of aviation regulation, really do have a right to comment about the government, if they feel they need to.
Those who just complain, without really extending a meaningful effort to make it "better", well, not so much, in my opinion...
If nay sayers would take the time to really understand the underlying reason for many of the regualtions and standards for aviation, there would be a lot less complaining about the "government", and a lot more introspection!
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Originally Posted by PilotDAR
If nay sayers would take the time to really understand the underlying reason for many of the regualtions and standards for aviation, there would be a lot less complaining about the "government", and a lot more introspection!
It may also be a slightly UK thing..
I trained and did most of my flying in Aus - The flying club made no provisions beyond the law as to what my currency should be, or what weather I should or should not fly in. I learned to take a view on conditions, and how comfortable I felt - at first cautious, then with experience took on more.
Returning to the UK I am introduced to currency rules (about which I've already moaned; just to be clear, *appropriate* currency is I believe important), and schemes where the weather gets a colour code and you are told whether you're allowed off the ground / out of the circuit / cross country etc, depending on the flavour of license and ratings you hold, and rules that specify you must not lean under 5000ft
I'm no sky god - I've racked up a couple of hundred hours over 3 and a bit years - mostly aerobatic and some longish touring trips into country aus. I don't know it all, but I *do* know when to seek advice, or fly with someone if I'm in any doubt. But then I'm pretty sure I knew that as a wet behind the ears PPL - I just needed to do it more often.
Moderator
*appropriate* currency is I believe important), and schemes where the weather gets a colour code and you are told whether you're allowed off the ground / out of the circuit / cross country etc, depending on the flavour of license and ratings you hold
On the other hand, checkouts vary tremendously with the environment. In my very early days as a renter, I kept myself "current" under the club rules, on the 172RG. The rationale being that I was thus current on all of their other types, which were simpler. Once, I went to rent the 172RG as booked, to be told it had gone mechanical. No problem, I'll take a 172. "You're not "qualified" was the reply from the non pilot desk person - in front of my passenger. I complained to the boss. I was presented with a nice little card, which I was told would be accepted as my evidence of currency for any of the aircraft in their fleet. I was to use it on my honour, and keep myself current. At that time, I had about 200 hours. There was never another problem.
Now, 30+ years later, I welcome checkouts on the different aircraft I fly, but often there is just no one to do it. So I read the flight manual, reherse in the cockpit a bit, and off I go.
To my delight, no mod evaluation flight (which accounts for about a quarter of my flying these days) has never gone wrong, beyond the scope of what I was expecting. I have had some frights doing plain old maintenance test flights though. Those flights, are in my opinion, the ones which are most likely to suddenly require an extra demonstration of pilot skill...
Every pilot is responsible to the whole rest of aviation, for flying within their skill set, and within the allowance for things which could reasonably be expected to go wrong. The more unusual the flying, the bigger allowance they should leave for the wrong thing.
Either we get it right, or we get regulated more!
Regulation is for the guidance of wise men, and for the obedience of fools - Bader
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High viz vests. There is not a single documented case of an aircraft taxiing into a pedestrian, but lots of pedestrians have walked into propellers.
People who think that what they learn in groundschool will never be useful. One day it will be.
People who fly through published IFR approaches without calling the airfield concerned. In the last year I've had two go-rounds as a result and at £38 per minute my boss complains.
People who launch cross country without a plan or a check on the weather.
People who don't turn on their transponders because they are just off for a quiet bimble without needing ATC. Those of us who are using ATC like to be told about you, and while my own aeroplane doesn't have TCAS the kit I fly for work does and I then can tell whether you are a factor or not.
Airport security. I am not going to hi-jack myself and yes I do want my contact lens kit and toothpaste in my briefcase.
Durham Tees Valley Airport. See above. Your security are the most ridiculous and rudest in the business.
People who look down from their mighty spamcans on those of us who own wood and cloth wonders.
People who loudly dispense advice in the flying club bar when most of their flying is for lunch at the airfield down the road.
People who dress as captains for flying their familly and friends. My employers make me dress as a captain and the last thing I will wear in my own aeroplane is gold bars.
People who think they can charge for flying without a professional license or AOC. Do you know the risks your passengers are running or the laws you are breaking?
Rant Off
People who think that what they learn in groundschool will never be useful. One day it will be.
People who fly through published IFR approaches without calling the airfield concerned. In the last year I've had two go-rounds as a result and at £38 per minute my boss complains.
People who launch cross country without a plan or a check on the weather.
People who don't turn on their transponders because they are just off for a quiet bimble without needing ATC. Those of us who are using ATC like to be told about you, and while my own aeroplane doesn't have TCAS the kit I fly for work does and I then can tell whether you are a factor or not.
Airport security. I am not going to hi-jack myself and yes I do want my contact lens kit and toothpaste in my briefcase.
Durham Tees Valley Airport. See above. Your security are the most ridiculous and rudest in the business.
People who look down from their mighty spamcans on those of us who own wood and cloth wonders.
People who loudly dispense advice in the flying club bar when most of their flying is for lunch at the airfield down the road.
People who dress as captains for flying their familly and friends. My employers make me dress as a captain and the last thing I will wear in my own aeroplane is gold bars.
People who think they can charge for flying without a professional license or AOC. Do you know the risks your passengers are running or the laws you are breaking?
Rant Off
Last edited by Sir Niall Dementia; 3rd Apr 2010 at 17:20.
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Mark1234
You must be flying Tiger Moths as that is the only place that I have seen a limitation on leaning the mixture below 5000ft!
But I suspect Not.................
I Think that the people that you are flying with are going to have a big problem by publishing rules that are in conflict with the flight manual, lets take a look at what might happen....................
A newish PPL who trained at this club takes an aircraft on a a long trip and flys the aircraft IAW the club rules on not leaning the mixture, Unfortunaly he runs out of fuel and in the resulting ditching someone dies.
Six months later in court the lawyer for the dependants of the victim gets hold of the fact that the club rule on leaning the mixture reduces the range of the aircraft by IRO 20%. So we now have the court looking at a club rule that resulted in an aircraft running out of fuel when if the aircraft had been flown IAW the flight manual a safe landing could have been made.
If you are running a business you are a fool if you issue rules that contermand the flight manual, it can only end one way in court.
But I suspect Not.................
I Think that the people that you are flying with are going to have a big problem by publishing rules that are in conflict with the flight manual, lets take a look at what might happen....................
A newish PPL who trained at this club takes an aircraft on a a long trip and flys the aircraft IAW the club rules on not leaning the mixture, Unfortunaly he runs out of fuel and in the resulting ditching someone dies.
Six months later in court the lawyer for the dependants of the victim gets hold of the fact that the club rule on leaning the mixture reduces the range of the aircraft by IRO 20%. So we now have the court looking at a club rule that resulted in an aircraft running out of fuel when if the aircraft had been flown IAW the flight manual a safe landing could have been made.
If you are running a business you are a fool if you issue rules that contermand the flight manual, it can only end one way in court.
I have nothing but good memories about my humble ppl flying. I've flown SEPL VFR in 7 different countries including mountanous regions. My fridge door is thick with pictures that my friends have taken from our trips. I sometimes speculate whether I might have just as much good memories from my flying as people with 10 times as much hours.
Still:
1. Airport staff checking my papers, e.g. pulling something as idiotic as my radio license out and checking it. If you care to know then I'm talking about EKRK. Shame on you.
2. 21 year old instructors with huge watches, fancy sunglasses, white shirts, epaulettes and a really small ego.
3. Pilots who think the size, make or price of their watch matters.
Still:
1. Airport staff checking my papers, e.g. pulling something as idiotic as my radio license out and checking it. If you care to know then I'm talking about EKRK. Shame on you.
2. 21 year old instructors with huge watches, fancy sunglasses, white shirts, epaulettes and a really small ego.
3. Pilots who think the size, make or price of their watch matters.
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The government is the people,
You are joking right?
Who else could it be?
You are joking right?
Who else could it be?
Awesome but Affordable
My 10 in no particular order -
EASA
CAA
FAA
DfT
Ofcom
This government
The cost of Avgas
Transponders..... esecially Mode S
Weather
Sir Joseph Pilling.................. or is it Pillock?
Rant over............ lets go flying.
Cheers,
Reaper 69
EASA
CAA
FAA
DfT
Ofcom
This government
The cost of Avgas
Transponders..... esecially Mode S
Weather
Sir Joseph Pilling.................. or is it Pillock?
Rant over............ lets go flying.
Cheers,
Reaper 69
Moderator
I'm sure glad I don't work for the government, or I'd really feel unwelcome around here!
But, I do work closely with the people of the governement to assure that the aircraft you may fly are safe, and will fly the way you think they will. I'm sure your lawyers will be after me if you think I was not entirely successful.
There are enough complaints on here about poorly designed, and poorly maintained aircraft, that so many pilots are forced to fly. It would sound like the posters are suggesting that the private aviation industry cannot be depended upon to provide the quality aircraft you want to fly, without someone you hire, watching over them. Who would that be?
.... and my favourite, Transport Canada.
All of these "governments" are staffed by people who applied for a job and go it, because they were the best of the applicants for that job. Were those people each the very best person to do that job? maybe, maybe not, but they applied, and they got it.
Are each of the pilots and maintainers who frequent this forum the very best at what they do? Or did they apply for a license anyway, and get it?
So we pilots and maintainers expect some forgiveness when we violate airspace, ding a plane and so forth - forgiveness from the government people who are being blindly slagged here. Certainly those government people entertain themselves with stories of the stupid things we do too.
So all of those here who are nearly perfect in aviation, do have some standing to make observations of dis-satisfaction about the people of the government, who we know are not quite perfect. What about all the rest of us?
But, I do work closely with the people of the governement to assure that the aircraft you may fly are safe, and will fly the way you think they will. I'm sure your lawyers will be after me if you think I was not entirely successful.
There are enough complaints on here about poorly designed, and poorly maintained aircraft, that so many pilots are forced to fly. It would sound like the posters are suggesting that the private aviation industry cannot be depended upon to provide the quality aircraft you want to fly, without someone you hire, watching over them. Who would that be?
EASA
CAA
FAA
DfT
CAA
FAA
DfT
All of these "governments" are staffed by people who applied for a job and go it, because they were the best of the applicants for that job. Were those people each the very best person to do that job? maybe, maybe not, but they applied, and they got it.
Are each of the pilots and maintainers who frequent this forum the very best at what they do? Or did they apply for a license anyway, and get it?
So we pilots and maintainers expect some forgiveness when we violate airspace, ding a plane and so forth - forgiveness from the government people who are being blindly slagged here. Certainly those government people entertain themselves with stories of the stupid things we do too.
So all of those here who are nearly perfect in aviation, do have some standing to make observations of dis-satisfaction about the people of the government, who we know are not quite perfect. What about all the rest of us?
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People who are in positions of power to legislate aviation, yet have absolutely no knowledge or understanding of what they are attempting to control, e.g. EASA, DfT, airfield security jobsworths etc., and hence end up making a complete arse of things.
Pillocks e.g. EcoFascists, Clueless Councils, the Government etc., who take great delight in attempting to build great sodding obstacles in the close vicinity of airfields (mostly in the form of wind turbines that create less power than an average fart) either 1) out of complete ignorance of consequences or 2) in a deliberate attempt to force said airfields to close.
People who come onto PPRuNE in order to moan about things that adversely affect aviation. Oops bugger that sometimes includes me.
Smithy
Pillocks e.g. EcoFascists, Clueless Councils, the Government etc., who take great delight in attempting to build great sodding obstacles in the close vicinity of airfields (mostly in the form of wind turbines that create less power than an average fart) either 1) out of complete ignorance of consequences or 2) in a deliberate attempt to force said airfields to close.
People who come onto PPRuNE in order to moan about things that adversely affect aviation. Oops bugger that sometimes includes me.
Smithy
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There are enough complaints on here about poorly designed, and poorly maintained aircraft, that so many pilots are forced to fly.
It would sound like the posters are suggesting that the private aviation industry cannot be depended upon to provide the quality aircraft you want to fly, without someone you hire, watching over them. Who would that be?
2. Nobody ever hired the Govt to "watch over them". The Govt runs a protection racket.: Give me $ to protect you, or I will make bad things happen to you!! Ever noticed that ze Govt always rely on outlawing competitors for their "services".
3. Nobody has a better motivation for ensuring safe flight than the ones with their backsides on the line.