arrogance
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arrogance
I am a Brit who lives and flies in France. In my view one of the best places for GA in the world. I am sorry to say that the greatest danger one is faced with are arrogant Brits.
You see, they continue to land at airfields where there is no English service. This is fine if they could speak French, but mostly they cannot. On landing, even after nearly causing a near miss they continue to believe that English is the 'universal aviation language' and it is their right to land wherever they wish.
If French pilots wish to fly abroad, they have to pass a quite hard English exam. Being bi-lingual, I give courses at several flying clubs.
May I remind Brit flyers that they can only land at airfields with English service unless they are sufficiently proficient in French to make and understand radio calls. These days, things are being hardened up and if any Brit arrives illegally, they are quite likely to be given a French test which if they fail, a large fine ensues.
We welcome foreign flyers provided that they do not present a serious threat to local air users. We are fed up with finding G reg planes flying circuits in opposite direction and ignoring local traffic in circuit.
You see, they continue to land at airfields where there is no English service. This is fine if they could speak French, but mostly they cannot. On landing, even after nearly causing a near miss they continue to believe that English is the 'universal aviation language' and it is their right to land wherever they wish.
If French pilots wish to fly abroad, they have to pass a quite hard English exam. Being bi-lingual, I give courses at several flying clubs.
May I remind Brit flyers that they can only land at airfields with English service unless they are sufficiently proficient in French to make and understand radio calls. These days, things are being hardened up and if any Brit arrives illegally, they are quite likely to be given a French test which if they fail, a large fine ensues.
We welcome foreign flyers provided that they do not present a serious threat to local air users. We are fed up with finding G reg planes flying circuits in opposite direction and ignoring local traffic in circuit.
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Maybe they are suffering from ADHD, seems to be quite common with pilots... well so we're told on some forums !
You're right, English is the 'universal aviation language', but still no excuse for landing and not being able to chat the local lingo !.. Imagine trying to order a burger and them not knowing what one is saying... I suppose we could always make a "Moo" sound.
You're right, English is the 'universal aviation language', but still no excuse for landing and not being able to chat the local lingo !.. Imagine trying to order a burger and them not knowing what one is saying... I suppose we could always make a "Moo" sound.
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Isn't it an ICAO requirement to speak English? If so then maybe it's not the Brits who are being arrogant...
Generally, aerodromes with full ATC will speak English. Those with A/G will require you to speak french.
This is unfortunately not limited to Brits though. There was a guy on Saturday poling around near Bordeaux making calls in Spanish....My French friends at the aeroclub noted ironicly that if he was speaking English at least I could have done an impromptu translation for everyone....
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A lot of the smaller French airfields will only speak French to you, but you'll have studied the AIS info for the airfield before the flight and already know that before departure, right?
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Isn't it an ICAO requirement to speak English? If so then maybe it's not the Brits who are being arrogant...
To comply with that ICAO requirement, International French Airports can use English in R/T if required. The rest of the time they can use the local Language.
Pilots visiting France should remember tat there is an ICAO requirement for "Language Proficiency" and not "English Language Proficiency". That means when flying to an aerodrome where the Language for R/T is French Only then the Pilot needs to hold a French Language Proficiency Certificate to use the radio.
Ask a Non-Enbglish speaking pilot to show you their licence - they will have language proficiency in both Local language and English.
Viv le difFrance,
Brendan
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"Isn't it an ICAO requirement to speak English"
I rest my case.... It is a requirement to speak English for all pilots who fly outside of their own country and of course those who fly in countries where English is the local language.
I would have thought that those who subscribe to this forum had at least a modicum of airlaw but it would appear not to be the case.
Those who do not respect the rules of flying abroad in countries who have different native tongues deserve all they get and I just hope ytou do not take any local flyers with you.
Recently I met a G reg Bonanza who landed at the wrong end of Quiberon because he could not understand the French calls. Sadly it was I who had to abort my approach.
arrogant even in this forum and typical responses of Brit flyers overseas
I will not bother again to warn you
I rest my case.... It is a requirement to speak English for all pilots who fly outside of their own country and of course those who fly in countries where English is the local language.
I would have thought that those who subscribe to this forum had at least a modicum of airlaw but it would appear not to be the case.
Those who do not respect the rules of flying abroad in countries who have different native tongues deserve all they get and I just hope ytou do not take any local flyers with you.
Recently I met a G reg Bonanza who landed at the wrong end of Quiberon because he could not understand the French calls. Sadly it was I who had to abort my approach.
arrogant even in this forum and typical responses of Brit flyers overseas
I will not bother again to warn you
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Isn't it an ICAO requirement to speak English?
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It was a simply question! As someone who has never flown in France and probably never will I haven't bothered to check what the requirements are their. And when I took my airlaw I don't think languages were mentioned - but it was over 13 years ago.
Thank you for a polite explanation Brendan
HTC
Thank you for a polite explanation Brendan
HTC
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If flying from the UK to France, the flight must land at an International airport i.e. one with Customs. All such airports have ATC which must be able to speak English.
After that, if doing internal flights, one can encounter airports which are non-international and there one needs to speak French.
This is why I avoid non-international airports, everywhere outside the UK
After that, if doing internal flights, one can encounter airports which are non-international and there one needs to speak French.
This is why I avoid non-international airports, everywhere outside the UK
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At non controlled airfields the French use a common frequency 123.5. Pilots should prefix their calls with airfield they are intending to use, and listen out for calls from traffic at that airfield. That way you get situation awareness long before arriving, and so should know wx, cct direction, r/w in use etc. To just barge in blind and do some idiotic British OHJ is at best rude, at worst suicidal. Of course you must have adequate French knowledge, or stay away. 
In your initial post you make a good point, and it is one that we Brits should take seriously.
However, as well as your advice, thank you for also providing a handy example of "arrogance" to help with our understanding of the definition of same.
Originally Posted by glasairflyer
I will not bother again to warn you
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"However, as well as your advice, thank you for also providing a handy example of "arrogance" to help with our understanding of the definition of same. "
Point taken but perhaps it is indicative of the intense frustration we have due to this issue.
I work an English service for our local airfield during summer when I am not flying myself. This concludes 12.00 hrs Sunday. After this time, the Brits just do not use our frequencies and land anyway. In 2009, we have had 9 near mid air collisions.
We now call the police and push for prosecution.
It is only luck that there have not been more fatalities
I would remind Brit flyers that it is the responsibility of the captain to ensure that they are knowledgable in air law when travelling abroad...it is not the responsibility of the host.
The constant repetition of "English is the international aviation language" has become more than just a mild irritant.
Point taken but perhaps it is indicative of the intense frustration we have due to this issue.
I work an English service for our local airfield during summer when I am not flying myself. This concludes 12.00 hrs Sunday. After this time, the Brits just do not use our frequencies and land anyway. In 2009, we have had 9 near mid air collisions.
We now call the police and push for prosecution.
It is only luck that there have not been more fatalities
I would remind Brit flyers that it is the responsibility of the captain to ensure that they are knowledgable in air law when travelling abroad...it is not the responsibility of the host.
The constant repetition of "English is the international aviation language" has become more than just a mild irritant.
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If flying from the UK to France, the flight must land at an International airport i.e. one with Customs. All such airports have ATC which must be able to speak English.
Amiens?
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glasairflyer, you are absolutely correct. 20 years ago I did exactly what you warn against, insufficient french to understand what the local traffic was saying, and ended up nose to nose with a Cessna. I saw him and avoided him and frightened him badly, met him on the ground and made abject apology, and received a friendly briefing on the useful terms.
When in Rome.....
When in Rome.....
Unfortunately, pig**** thick digi-yoof of today has never seen the need to learn a 'foreign' language. Largely due to it's habit of holidaying anywhere it can ask for "Beer and burger, Manuel" and not be served a piano and a small horse.
Surely it is only politeness, regardless of the rules, to make an attempt to converse in the local language. I don't think that "'allo, allo, je suis Golf Alfa Good Moaning, un Pay Ahh Vingt Huit de Calais a votre place de vol" is quite sufficient, but perhaps better than rien?
Top tip - arrive at lunchtime, roughly 1130-1530. Because during la bouffe, there is bugger all likelihood of any leetle froggy fellow being at the microphone when he could be stuffing his face with steak frites!
Don't do what a chum once did at Abbeville. "It is nice to be here, my father used to fly here", he said. "Vraiment? Quand?" asked the official whilst wiping the lunch from his moustache. "Oh, he flew the Hundert Neun from here in 1940....."
"I wish to see your CofA, aircraft radio licence, VAT certificate, interception procedures.........."
Oops!
Surely it is only politeness, regardless of the rules, to make an attempt to converse in the local language. I don't think that "'allo, allo, je suis Golf Alfa Good Moaning, un Pay Ahh Vingt Huit de Calais a votre place de vol" is quite sufficient, but perhaps better than rien?
Top tip - arrive at lunchtime, roughly 1130-1530. Because during la bouffe, there is bugger all likelihood of any leetle froggy fellow being at the microphone when he could be stuffing his face with steak frites!
Don't do what a chum once did at Abbeville. "It is nice to be here, my father used to fly here", he said. "Vraiment? Quand?" asked the official whilst wiping the lunch from his moustache. "Oh, he flew the Hundert Neun from here in 1940....."
"I wish to see your CofA, aircraft radio licence, VAT certificate, interception procedures.........."
Oops!
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While we are at it, information services such as Paris Information are for giving INFORMATION. They are not the least interested or wish to be told position, course, squawk, altitude etc etc etc that Brit flyers always want to tell them!
While we are at it, information services such as Paris Information are for giving INFORMATION. They are not the least interested or wish to be told position, course, squawk, altitude etc etc etc that Brit flyers always want to tell them!
AIC 2005_07 says:
CONDITIONS TO BE FULFILLED TO BENEFIT FROM THE ADDITIONAL INFORMATION PROVIDED AS PART OF
THE FLIGHT INFORMATION SERVICE WITH RADAR VISUALIZATION
In order to benefit from flight information provided by the FIC with radar visualization the following conditions apply:
• the aircraft must be equipped with a transponder mode A + C (or mode S level 2 at least) with alticoder,
• the pilot flying under VFR must:
- At the first contact transmit to the FIC all flight data necessary for the supply of flight information with radar
visualization to operate in the FIC area. This particularly includes the call sign, type of aircraft as well as the aero-
drome of departure and arrival;
I would have thought that giving position and altitude were obviously necessary to receive a radar service.
