Gusty conditions on approach
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Lister
Hatz,I never knew that,but surely they have test flights before being certificated,and that would give all the required speeds etc?
Hatz,I never knew that,but surely they have test flights before being certificated,and that would give all the required speeds etc?
Hatz - "Seems fairly unambiguous "
Yes you are right - it is totally unambiguous that i was responding to the question about speeds being recorded and not about the presence of a POH.
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Obviously got the wrong end of the stick, thought you meant it HAS got a POH. So maybe it was ambiguous after all ! Sorry!
One of the issues with the written word in forums (fora?) such as these - there appear to be more misunderstandings than understandings (if you see what I mean) - more of a problem with the medium - in a face to face conversation this type of misunderstoodification would not happen.
Before you two get as far as tongues, my comment to Lister referred to his POH query concerning his Cub.
For aircraft which do not have a POH, obviously the parallel advice is to use the figures which the designer / LAA / AOPA / BMAA or whoever else regulates the aeronautical contraption o f your choice recommends.....
For aircraft which do not have a POH, obviously the parallel advice is to use the figures which the designer / LAA / AOPA / BMAA or whoever else regulates the aeronautical contraption o f your choice recommends.....
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But it gets better hatz - my permit aircraft has a POH available from several outfits whoi have or are building their versions which definitely does not apply to my aircraft!
However I have wondered why the TADS do not have some o fthe flight test data in them - they would at least then be a guide a to aircraft performance.
However I have wondered why the TADS do not have some o fthe flight test data in them - they would at least then be a guide a to aircraft performance.
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Before you two get as far as tongues
For aircraft which do not have a POH, obviously the parallel advice is to use the figures which the designer / LAA / AOPA / BMAA or whoever else regulates the aeronautical contraption o f your choice recommends.....
If it is very different I would refer to the kit provider, my LAA inspector, the LAA and other owners of same aircraft (in that order).
As for gusty landings use the same sources.
Other speeds (e.g. Vne) I stick to the kit providers published data.
Got there about 20 minutes ago - we are getting married tomorrow
Your methodology sounds pretty good for a D-i-Y aircraft - but I still wouldn't recommend increasing your approach speed above whatever 1.3VS in the landing configuration at MAUW works out at. But then there's the issue of accurately determining VS in the first place if your homebuilt's pressure head has significant position error or other source of inaccuracy at low IAS.....
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but I still wouldn't recommend increasing your approach speed above whatever 1.3VS in the landing configuration at MAUW works out at.
I am struggling to understand your reasoning for the above comment? I am certainly not trying to get one up on you
Have you used the word approach meaning threshold speed? or do you mean at a busy airport you would fly down the approach at 1.3V in landing config regardless of other traffic wind turbulence or shear?
Maybe I am misunderstanding you?
Pace
Approach speed has nothing to do with touch-down speed. In calm air, I often fly 120+ knots on the approach to a 2000m runway, in a Jodel 1050, letting speed bleed off at roundout for a full stall touchdown. This allows me to fit in with commercial traffic.
Flying in to a 600 ft altitude hilltop airstrip, with wind reported over 20 knots, and gusting, at my 31 ft altitude departure airfield, I approached higher, and well above the recommended approach speed. I hit the downdraft and turbulence, then the windshear. Adding power, I landed comfortably on the upslope, using less than half the strip. Going round would not have been an option once into the downdraft.
See this FAA accident report. for severe gust conditions. http://www.ntsb.gov/ntsb/GenPDF.asp?...05LA112&rpt=fa
I have been told by instructors on Pa28/38 check outs that the approach should be stabilised by 200 ft. In gusty conditions, in a lightweight taildragger, I reckon I’m stabilised once I have 2 tiedowns secure, or the wings through the hangar door.
Flying in to a 600 ft altitude hilltop airstrip, with wind reported over 20 knots, and gusting, at my 31 ft altitude departure airfield, I approached higher, and well above the recommended approach speed. I hit the downdraft and turbulence, then the windshear. Adding power, I landed comfortably on the upslope, using less than half the strip. Going round would not have been an option once into the downdraft.
See this FAA accident report. for severe gust conditions. http://www.ntsb.gov/ntsb/GenPDF.asp?...05LA112&rpt=fa
I have been told by instructors on Pa28/38 check outs that the approach should be stabilised by 200 ft. In gusty conditions, in a lightweight taildragger, I reckon I’m stabilised once I have 2 tiedowns secure, or the wings through the hangar door.
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He "immediately initiated a go-around, applied full power, and set the attitude for level
flight.". He stated that "when the airplane entered the wind shear, the airspeed dropped rapidly
and the stall warning horn sounded". He said the airplane lost all lift and "slammed into the
runway".
flight.". He stated that "when the airplane entered the wind shear, the airspeed dropped rapidly
and the stall warning horn sounded". He said the airplane lost all lift and "slammed into the
runway".
Pace
Last edited by Pace; 4th Sep 2009 at 17:16.
Screw 'busy airports' forcing people to fly faster than is safe. If those in the tower can't cope with normal approach speeds for the type in question, that's their problem - they should have arranged appropriate spacing in the first place.
As for that 'report', what sort of idiot tries to conduct flight instruction with a wind of 09G37 with Cbs, virga and reported windshear at an airport with an elevation of nearly 4900 ft?
That sounds like an ideal roto streaming scenario. In usch circumstances, all bets are off for those of us flying puddlejumpers.
As for that 'report', what sort of idiot tries to conduct flight instruction with a wind of 09G37 with Cbs, virga and reported windshear at an airport with an elevation of nearly 4900 ft?
That sounds like an ideal roto streaming scenario. In usch circumstances, all bets are off for those of us flying puddlejumpers.
Last edited by BEagle; 5th Sep 2009 at 18:59.
Air traffic have never suggested a fast approach. At most they say “ Report ready to turn base. We might squeeze you in if you keep it tight”. What’s wrong with not keeping people waiting?
The instructor in that report was not instructing a student. He was accompanying an experienced PPL from outside the area, who wanted to fly sight-seeing, but didn’t want to be checked out on an aircraft. CBs can develop quickly. He checked me out on several occasions, and I have great respect for him. I think his quoted hours do not include military hours.
The instructor in that report was not instructing a student. He was accompanying an experienced PPL from outside the area, who wanted to fly sight-seeing, but didn’t want to be checked out on an aircraft. CBs can develop quickly. He checked me out on several occasions, and I have great respect for him. I think his quoted hours do not include military hours.
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Air traffic have never suggested a fast approach
Maybe not in uncontrolled airfields but it is totally normal in controlled airfields to fit in with other traffic. "Maintain 140 kts until 3 dme" or alternatively "reduce speed to X"
Speed control is about knowing your aircraft and having confidence in your abilities. Speed control is about energy and drag management and that should hold true from the lightest aircraft to the heaviest.
I note you are from Scotland so will be well brought up in handling strong winds
Pace
Sounds like it was a challenging situation, but all the alarm bells should have been ringing loudly. I would have thought that 200', full power and the nose pointing downwards could have given you enough airspeed to clear the runway by at least a few feet, but then again, I wasn't there.
It'll do 105kts cruise. Power on descent to runway, well below red line on tach, but in the yellow on the ASI. Did it again to avoid holding up someone last Saturday. Had a video camera on, but not showing instruments. Very gentle landing, no brake, and clear at middle of runway with no backtracking. (Original post was inaccurate in that runway is only just over 1800m)
