Flying from and around Bournemouth
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Handing over money for future training and then the company going bust has been a feature of my 30+ years of flying; this should be taught as lesson 1 in the syllabus!
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tomster50
None of the employees at Old Sarum Flying Club had any idea of what was about to happen or had the 'power' to make decisions (good or ill) in the way the business was run and played no part in its ultimate demise.
Not that many staff have re-located to Bournemouth Flying Club either, of the 15 (or so) only 5 have. There are in fact more ex-staff working at Old Sarum Airfield in the new business based there, not to mention others who have departed to pastures new all over the South.
There is only one person to blame for what happened at Old Sarum Flying Club and directing such accusations at me and other decent hard working people is both unfounded and quite wrong.
Another 1 post superhero.
Not that many staff have re-located to Bournemouth Flying Club either, of the 15 (or so) only 5 have. There are in fact more ex-staff working at Old Sarum Airfield in the new business based there, not to mention others who have departed to pastures new all over the South.
There is only one person to blame for what happened at Old Sarum Flying Club and directing such accusations at me and other decent hard working people is both unfounded and quite wrong.
Another 1 post superhero.
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nibbler
I have not accused you or anyone else of anything!! I am merely stating that i wouldn't feel comfortable handing over any money to BFC as they have number of employees working for them who previously worked for a club which took £7000 from me, and gave nothing back in return. I feel 99% of people would probably feel the same in my position.
Who knows whether anyone at the old club had an idea of what was hapening. Maybe they did...maybe they didnt...
However there is someone listed on your website, as working for you, who had the role of 'commercial manager' (or a similarly important role) at the club that went bankrupt. I would have thought someone with this sort of influence within a company would have an idea there was financial troubles. If not then they would be very ignorant as to what was happening within their organisation.
I could be completely wrong with all these thoughts, as i am still feeling sorry for myself after losing so much money, but they are just my opinions.
2 posts now...
Who knows whether anyone at the old club had an idea of what was hapening. Maybe they did...maybe they didnt...
However there is someone listed on your website, as working for you, who had the role of 'commercial manager' (or a similarly important role) at the club that went bankrupt. I would have thought someone with this sort of influence within a company would have an idea there was financial troubles. If not then they would be very ignorant as to what was happening within their organisation.
I could be completely wrong with all these thoughts, as i am still feeling sorry for myself after losing so much money, but they are just my opinions.
2 posts now...
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They (we all) didn't know, there is no maybe about it.
The person you refer to had happily gone on holiday totally unaware of the impending 'moment' and was only employed 2 days a week. Of course the job title infers he would have financial knowledge but in fact this is a mistake. The role was to promote the business in the wider community and had absolutely nothing to do with the company finances.
I can and do appreciate your bitterness, right there with you. Without this turning into a pissing contest (more for some perspective) the close of the business cost me a lot more than 7k and it cost others more than me.
You might talk to people now who tell you they knew this was going to happen weeks or months before it did. It's very easy to put 2 and 2 together with the benefit of hindsight and a the will to spin a good yarn. I can tell you for a fact that if people had the slightest inclination (even a rumour) of what was going to happen things would have turned out very differently.
Was the refund route not open to you as I hear credit card companies had refunded a lot of customers, that is if you had paid using a credit card? Oh and I am both relieved and pleased to say it wasn't me who took your money.
Welcome to pprune.....
The person you refer to had happily gone on holiday totally unaware of the impending 'moment' and was only employed 2 days a week. Of course the job title infers he would have financial knowledge but in fact this is a mistake. The role was to promote the business in the wider community and had absolutely nothing to do with the company finances.
I can and do appreciate your bitterness, right there with you. Without this turning into a pissing contest (more for some perspective) the close of the business cost me a lot more than 7k and it cost others more than me.
You might talk to people now who tell you they knew this was going to happen weeks or months before it did. It's very easy to put 2 and 2 together with the benefit of hindsight and a the will to spin a good yarn. I can tell you for a fact that if people had the slightest inclination (even a rumour) of what was going to happen things would have turned out very differently.
Was the refund route not open to you as I hear credit card companies had refunded a lot of customers, that is if you had paid using a credit card? Oh and I am both relieved and pleased to say it wasn't me who took your money.
Welcome to pprune.....
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Nibbler
I accept everything you say as being gospel, but if I had the money to throw at a flying club and rejuvenate it I don’t think employing someone from a local failed club, whose job title to my prospective customers certainly does infer they may have had some control of what was going on, would be my first choice.
No matter how innocent I’m afraid in the wild world mud sticks, and its going to be a hard task washing that off, although I’m sure it can be done if one goes about it the right way. Your contribution of the new club web site is certainly one of the right ways, but unfortunately the way that one individual has gone about dealing with the Club’s Restaurant’s existing cliental, including many of the local flyers, has alienated a lot of people.
This is probably all wrong but the impression being given is sod the passengers throw them overboard and see if they make it back to shore. If so, and if the want to, I don’t really care one way or the other, they can catch up with us on the next voyage, but I don’t know yet where it’s going.
I accept everything you say as being gospel, but if I had the money to throw at a flying club and rejuvenate it I don’t think employing someone from a local failed club, whose job title to my prospective customers certainly does infer they may have had some control of what was going on, would be my first choice.
No matter how innocent I’m afraid in the wild world mud sticks, and its going to be a hard task washing that off, although I’m sure it can be done if one goes about it the right way. Your contribution of the new club web site is certainly one of the right ways, but unfortunately the way that one individual has gone about dealing with the Club’s Restaurant’s existing cliental, including many of the local flyers, has alienated a lot of people.
This is probably all wrong but the impression being given is sod the passengers throw them overboard and see if they make it back to shore. If so, and if the want to, I don’t really care one way or the other, they can catch up with us on the next voyage, but I don’t know yet where it’s going.
Last edited by Yankee; 15th Oct 2008 at 12:37.
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I didn't pay on c/c unfortunately, i paid using a debit card. I am however chasing up the 'chargeback' facility at the moment to reclaim some money.
It may not have been you who took my money but the person who did is listed on your web page, and i have also recieved e-mails from them asking me to come and fly with you. This request did grind at me a bit!
I wish you and BFC all the best, but as yankee said 'mud sticks' and with so many ex management staff from the bankrupt club now working for you. I personally wont be inclined to give them any money.
Thankyou...
It may not have been you who took my money but the person who did is listed on your web page, and i have also recieved e-mails from them asking me to come and fly with you. This request did grind at me a bit!
I wish you and BFC all the best, but as yankee said 'mud sticks' and with so many ex management staff from the bankrupt club now working for you. I personally wont be inclined to give them any money.
Thankyou...
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tomster50 & Yankee
I hear what you both are saying and I do agree to some extent with the points you make.
As you may have already guessed I am unable to expand too far, you never know who might be reading this, suffice to say I am only a minion however rest assured - I'm not going to be party to any wrong doing should I become aware of it.
With regard to the events since the take over, well yes I personally think things could have been handled slightly differently but to be fair that statement does not take into account the attitudes and behaviour of the existing people and their response to change. Given the state of the business urgent change was clearly required and significant change in any organisation is never easy.
What I can say is that these changes are for the better and the proof is in the sampling - the restaurant is having a major upgrade and will re-open in December.
I hear what you both are saying and I do agree to some extent with the points you make.
As you may have already guessed I am unable to expand too far, you never know who might be reading this, suffice to say I am only a minion however rest assured - I'm not going to be party to any wrong doing should I become aware of it.
With regard to the events since the take over, well yes I personally think things could have been handled slightly differently but to be fair that statement does not take into account the attitudes and behaviour of the existing people and their response to change. Given the state of the business urgent change was clearly required and significant change in any organisation is never easy.
What I can say is that these changes are for the better and the proof is in the sampling - the restaurant is having a major upgrade and will re-open in December.
Hi Nibbler, earlier in the thread you said that the AT-3 is aerobatic - this is not the case. The manufacturer is call "Aero" so maybe that's what caused the confusion.
HFD
HFD
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Interesting - having flown with BFC for some years now having learnt there I have to say I am less than impressed with the new management.
The approach towards existing customers seems to be along the lines of he who pays the most and shouts the loudest gets what they want. Maybe that is the way of the world now but it does some rather harsh on the existing clientele.
Will be interesting to see what comes of the changes at BFC - however I have to say from a customer perspective it is not looking that hopeful.
The approach towards existing customers seems to be along the lines of he who pays the most and shouts the loudest gets what they want. Maybe that is the way of the world now but it does some rather harsh on the existing clientele.
Will be interesting to see what comes of the changes at BFC - however I have to say from a customer perspective it is not looking that hopeful.
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Thanks for that hugh flung_dung Sir and apologies for the error, indeed I did read it the way you suggested.
TangoZulu - I am sorry you have that impression from the service you have (not) received. As you would expect this would be the farthest thought in the minds of the ops staff who's job it is to try, working against all adversity (at times), to get students and pilots flying as and when they want to.
Without knowing exactly what happened to you it is difficult to address your individual concern - might I suggest either PM me for a personal service or using the contact link on the website to put your thoughts directly to management?
TangoZulu - I am sorry you have that impression from the service you have (not) received. As you would expect this would be the farthest thought in the minds of the ops staff who's job it is to try, working against all adversity (at times), to get students and pilots flying as and when they want to.
Without knowing exactly what happened to you it is difficult to address your individual concern - might I suggest either PM me for a personal service or using the contact link on the website to put your thoughts directly to management?
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illegal email spamming
This may be a good thread and time to ask the following....
Will BFC stop illegally email spamming me along with other old OSFC members. My details with old Old Sarum Flying Club were not to be stolen by the new management at BFC and used to promote another flying school.
I also lost money at OSFC and for the same management staff to spam me is not only illegal but taking the p***. Stop it.
Will BFC stop illegally email spamming me along with other old OSFC members. My details with old Old Sarum Flying Club were not to be stolen by the new management at BFC and used to promote another flying school.
I also lost money at OSFC and for the same management staff to spam me is not only illegal but taking the p***. Stop it.
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As I have said previously (in this very thread) 2 wrongs don't make a right so....
I have enquired at BFC and have been told all the e-mail addresses are part of a personal list of contacts a member of staff developed to keep in touch with people they knew however anyone wishing to be removed from the list should reply to the BFC e-mail asking to be removed.
Thank you for bring it up.
I have enquired at BFC and have been told all the e-mail addresses are part of a personal list of contacts a member of staff developed to keep in touch with people they knew however anyone wishing to be removed from the list should reply to the BFC e-mail asking to be removed.
Thank you for bring it up.
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Nibbler, both you and I know that email list was not a personal list made by a member of staff. I never gave my email address to anyone other than OSFC membership form, that list was copied and taken to BFC. I know the person who copied it and the exact day it was done, but lets leave that there and not dwell on that.
Anyway, no matter how BFC obtained the list, it is still illegal to send spam emails to people with fines up to £5000 for each offence. The current law requires people to opt IN to an email list, you cannot spam and then say people can opt OUT. Therefore I suggest you modify your current email list to include only your BCF members who have given permission to be contacted by email. It is not my responsibility to opt out.
Regards
Anyway, no matter how BFC obtained the list, it is still illegal to send spam emails to people with fines up to £5000 for each offence. The current law requires people to opt IN to an email list, you cannot spam and then say people can opt OUT. Therefore I suggest you modify your current email list to include only your BCF members who have given permission to be contacted by email. It is not my responsibility to opt out.
Regards
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I am repeating what I have been told, taking the information in good faith and placing it here with the exact same intention. I genuinely had no idea OSFC membership forms were copied, if in fact they were. I did not see or partake in this act and I have not actually seen any evidence at BFC of this, therefore I am unable to confirm your claim even if it is true.
As I don't own or run the business and I'm not the person who sends these e-mails it's fair to say your points (however much I agree with them) are wasted if they are solely aimed at me. You should speak to BFC directly about this.
As I don't own or run the business and I'm not the person who sends these e-mails it's fair to say your points (however much I agree with them) are wasted if they are solely aimed at me. You should speak to BFC directly about this.
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I'll repeat what I said, its not for me to opt out of illegal email spam lists. Its also not my job to explain the current UK laws to companies they are responisble for themselves.
If it happens again then it will be reported to The Information Commissioner's Office.
If it happens again then it will be reported to The Information Commissioner's Office.
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Well now we've sorted the problem of responsibility you might find the link I recently used very handy
http://www.ico.gov.uk/upload/documen...2comp-form.pdf
http://www.ico.gov.uk/upload/documen...2comp-form.pdf
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Nibbler,
As a representative of Old Sarum, if you have an issue with our marketing we would be more than happy to discuss it with you. As the Information Commissioner's Office suggests, this should always be your first port of call in the event of a complaint.
Contact details for the flying school can be found on our website, Old Sarum Flying School.
I hope this helps bring about an amicable conclusion to the matter.
As a representative of Old Sarum, if you have an issue with our marketing we would be more than happy to discuss it with you. As the Information Commissioner's Office suggests, this should always be your first port of call in the event of a complaint.
Contact details for the flying school can be found on our website, Old Sarum Flying School.
I hope this helps bring about an amicable conclusion to the matter.
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Greetings to all on this thread.
A lot has been said about the ins and outs of the Old Sarum Flying Club and Bournemouth Flying Club links.
I need to make it quite clear that Blanefield Airfield Operations Ltd operate Old Sarum Airfield and several operations, including Old Sarum Flying School (www.flysarum.com) are based here.
Blanefield have not been involved in this 'marketing' issue.
We continue to seek settlement from those responsible for the debts of Megastream Ltd t/a Old Sarum Flying Club, and to the best of our knowledge these do not include personalities involved in the ownership or operation on Bournemouth Flying Club who often have their aircraft on our wonderful site for circuit and grass runway training excersises.
The issue of 'e-mailing lists' is a grey one and I guess left to those who choose to carry them out. If you are a recipient and feel agrieved, contact the sender direct and have it out with them. Neither Old Sarum or Bournemouth deserve the bad press this issue is creating.
best regards and visit us soon! OSAF
A lot has been said about the ins and outs of the Old Sarum Flying Club and Bournemouth Flying Club links.
I need to make it quite clear that Blanefield Airfield Operations Ltd operate Old Sarum Airfield and several operations, including Old Sarum Flying School (www.flysarum.com) are based here.
Blanefield have not been involved in this 'marketing' issue.
We continue to seek settlement from those responsible for the debts of Megastream Ltd t/a Old Sarum Flying Club, and to the best of our knowledge these do not include personalities involved in the ownership or operation on Bournemouth Flying Club who often have their aircraft on our wonderful site for circuit and grass runway training excersises.
The issue of 'e-mailing lists' is a grey one and I guess left to those who choose to carry them out. If you are a recipient and feel agrieved, contact the sender direct and have it out with them. Neither Old Sarum or Bournemouth deserve the bad press this issue is creating.
best regards and visit us soon! OSAF
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Nibbler
Appreciate your offer - however as my discussion was with the new management it seems I probably already have their answer
Cheers - will see what comes to pass!
Appreciate your offer - however as my discussion was with the new management it seems I probably already have their answer
Cheers - will see what comes to pass!
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TangoZulu - always willing to help. In fact how quickly things in aviation change as it would seem today I have been elevated to a managment role at BFC. Please no applause! 
Seriously though if I can (as people who know me will confirm) I will be available for anyone with an issue, problem, gripe or even with a simple enquiry.
G-ENIE, thank you. I doubt my concern will grow or go further than my brief moan on pprune, although (no reply required) I do wonder how A got my details from B, maybe the clue left by another is right, although aimed incorrectly?
Seriously though if I can (as people who know me will confirm) I will be available for anyone with an issue, problem, gripe or even with a simple enquiry.
G-ENIE, thank you. I doubt my concern will grow or go further than my brief moan on pprune, although (no reply required) I do wonder how A got my details from B, maybe the clue left by another is right, although aimed incorrectly?