Check outs
Katamarino relax.....
When you rent an airplane it is not your airplane it belongs to the flying organization you are renting it from. It is therefore entirely reasonable IMO that they specify how they want it operated and (within reason) you should do so
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There are two sides to the checkout coin.
When doing a checkout it is up to the FI to make sure that the person is safe and that they aren't going to bend the aircraft. I fall very much into the camp of taking an overall view of someone, not just picking holes in silly little things like the order that memory checks are done in.
As long as everything is covered, then frankly who gives a monkeys?
However, if you fly with someone who is blatantly all over the shop, who for example lines up with the road not the runway, then you are well within your rights to ask for it to be done again and again until you are comfortable that the person being check out isn't going to damage your aircraft or themselves.
As I've often said here, you can tell how competent someone is going to be within the first 5 minutes of meeting them. How they conduct themselves, how they checkout the aircraft, how receptive they are to what you are saying in the brief, what planning they do and to what standard etc.etc.
The flying is often then just a formality, but with some people you almost need to start from scratch.
When someone new comes to the club, they need to be receptive to how you do things there. As soon as you hear the words "but that wasn't how I was trained" the alarm bells start ringing. Not because they were taught badly but because they are not open to new ideas and techniques.
Is this ringing any bells?
When doing a checkout it is up to the FI to make sure that the person is safe and that they aren't going to bend the aircraft. I fall very much into the camp of taking an overall view of someone, not just picking holes in silly little things like the order that memory checks are done in.
As long as everything is covered, then frankly who gives a monkeys?
However, if you fly with someone who is blatantly all over the shop, who for example lines up with the road not the runway, then you are well within your rights to ask for it to be done again and again until you are comfortable that the person being check out isn't going to damage your aircraft or themselves.
As I've often said here, you can tell how competent someone is going to be within the first 5 minutes of meeting them. How they conduct themselves, how they checkout the aircraft, how receptive they are to what you are saying in the brief, what planning they do and to what standard etc.etc.
The flying is often then just a formality, but with some people you almost need to start from scratch.
When someone new comes to the club, they need to be receptive to how you do things there. As soon as you hear the words "but that wasn't how I was trained" the alarm bells start ringing. Not because they were taught badly but because they are not open to new ideas and techniques.
Is this ringing any bells?
I understand absolutely. It just I hadn't expected that kind of investment in re-training when I started out, so obviously there was a feeling of frustration.
Taking in the whole picture I am grateful for anything that is going to make me a safer and more competent pilot.
Sounds like my escapades are doing the flying club bar circuit!
Last edited by DavidHoul52; 19th Sep 2008 at 15:00.
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There shouldn't need to be any "retraining" done. It isn't about changing how you do everything, usually it is just explaining how certain things are done differently at different places.
As someone who has just passed their test, I would hope your basic skills are fine, especially in regard to the basics such as landing, take off, climb out and the general handling element that is part of checking someone out at a new club.
So your experience should be about learning new procedures and about the local area, rather than training you how to fly the thing in the first place.
As someone who has just passed their test, I would hope your basic skills are fine, especially in regard to the basics such as landing, take off, climb out and the general handling element that is part of checking someone out at a new club.
So your experience should be about learning new procedures and about the local area, rather than training you how to fly the thing in the first place.
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It isn't about changing how you do everything, usually it is just explaining how certain things are done differently at different places.
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David,
It's probably also fair so say, that as you get more experience, you'll find these little things less of an issue to deal with.
For example, remember when you first learnt to drive? Driving a different car from the one you learnt in was a major hurdle, as everything felt different.
After you've been driving for a bit, you can jump in and out of different rental cars, barely noticing the difference.
Flying can be similar. After getting your PPL, being asked to make a slight adjustment to how you do things can be a major hurdle, but when you get some more experience, and get much more comfortable with everything, these changes come much easier
Don't get too fustrated by this.
My honest advice would be to try and pair up with another PPL in your club, and start to fly together, a bit further away than you are used to. One fly each direction. It will help build up your experience and confidence much quicker, than being able to rent from another location It will also help you feel less 'on your own' as a new PPL can often feel, surrounded by more experienced pilots.
dp
It's probably also fair so say, that as you get more experience, you'll find these little things less of an issue to deal with.
For example, remember when you first learnt to drive? Driving a different car from the one you learnt in was a major hurdle, as everything felt different.
After you've been driving for a bit, you can jump in and out of different rental cars, barely noticing the difference.
Flying can be similar. After getting your PPL, being asked to make a slight adjustment to how you do things can be a major hurdle, but when you get some more experience, and get much more comfortable with everything, these changes come much easier
Don't get too fustrated by this.
My honest advice would be to try and pair up with another PPL in your club, and start to fly together, a bit further away than you are used to. One fly each direction. It will help build up your experience and confidence much quicker, than being able to rent from another location
It will also help you feel less 'on your own' as a new PPL can often feel, surrounded by more experienced pilots.dp
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It's funny but I was just thinking about Dublinpilots post and he makes sense, but I've found a wierd thing happen as I got more experienced. When I jumped in and out of different aircraft I noticed the differences even more. They didn't bother me or change how I could fly the aircraft, but it's just that I could feel the difference between individual aircraft and how they responded.
New aircraft that were behind eachother on the production line feel totally different to fly, let alone some baggy old Cessnas that have been bent, dropped and generally abused for the last 20 years!
New aircraft that were behind eachother on the production line feel totally different to fly, let alone some baggy old Cessnas that have been bent, dropped and generally abused for the last 20 years!
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It's funny but I was just thinking about Dublinpilots post and he makes sense, but I've found a wierd thing happen as I got more experienced. When I jumped in and out of different aircraft I noticed the differences even more.
Probably something to do with less mental capacity being required to do the basics, so the brain starts to process other stuff and you notice things that were not apparent before.
I've only a few hundred hours, so it would be interesting to know if someone with 10 or 20k had the same experience and whether the awareness continued to grow or whether it disappeared again as competence/experience grew.
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A surprisingly interesting thread! David has a point in that every pilot has his or her own way of doing things. A truly professional examiner will, as as been stated earlier, get a general impression of the capablities very early in the proceedings and as said, the rest is a formality.
I have recently moved to France and had to do a French skills test at the local club. It was soon apparent that the examiner was very intent in showing me how skillful he was, rather than checking me out. Being a professional Citation pilot, he revelled in keeping the nose wheel of the C172 hard on the ground until rotation and using 10 degrees of flap well outside the white arc. It certainly wasnt my place to comment on his technique though. (Some no doubt will say I should have done!), all I wanted to achieve was my license signed off. This he did with a comment that an hour with an instructor to practice cross wind techniques woudlnt come amiss. Have to say though, his nose wheel method, certainly helps to keep the centre line. Shame about the tyres etc!
BobD
I have recently moved to France and had to do a French skills test at the local club. It was soon apparent that the examiner was very intent in showing me how skillful he was, rather than checking me out. Being a professional Citation pilot, he revelled in keeping the nose wheel of the C172 hard on the ground until rotation and using 10 degrees of flap well outside the white arc. It certainly wasnt my place to comment on his technique though. (Some no doubt will say I should have done!), all I wanted to achieve was my license signed off. This he did with a comment that an hour with an instructor to practice cross wind techniques woudlnt come amiss. Have to say though, his nose wheel method, certainly helps to keep the centre line. Shame about the tyres etc!
BobD
