Doncaster Sheffield - New Class D Airspace
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Completely agree, I have no issue with the GA fraternity, I have a PPL and have enjoyed the freedom it brings for many years (Mil flying gives more of a buzz, but is in essence a job where the pressure to achieve the highest standards is always present). Never had much problem with other airspace users; bonged a few areas I shouldn't have, had 3 airproxes and a mid-air, and seen mistakes on both sides of the fence (hangliders, in the Lakes, jumping off the hill the opposite side of the valley to the one that was NOTAM'd!!). We've had a fair bit of thread drift, maybe we should get back to DSA and HUY.
Don't quite understand the bashing of RHADS. As a location it's a damn site better than HUY and LBA. As an east midlands dweller, it's far more accesible than any of the other options, I know the new MD quite well and Peel have invested a huge amount of money (including a new CAT III ILS), so for those hoping to see a shopping centre, I wouldn't hold your breath.
Don't quite understand the bashing of RHADS. As a location it's a damn site better than HUY and LBA. As an east midlands dweller, it's far more accesible than any of the other options, I know the new MD quite well and Peel have invested a huge amount of money (including a new CAT III ILS), so for those hoping to see a shopping centre, I wouldn't hold your breath.
Avoid imitations
Thread Starter
Join Date: Nov 2000
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Well said, that man. 
Well I wouldn't think of 'outing' anyone. I just miss read something that I thought was Daniel's name, 
sorry Daniel. I should have gone to specsavers!
The gist of my Ps. is still valid though, I think!
MJ
sorry Daniel. I should have gone to specsavers!The gist of my Ps. is still valid though, I think!
MJ
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Zone Busts
it was very interesting for them today... and yesterday no doubt
for the short time i was on freq there was a constant stream of boll
kings for people who had entered 'the zone' one i believe was a low hour ppl at GAM who was given a good talking to about entering the zone.... another was told to consult the new airspace before making another flight
first thing this morning the controller seemd to be ok..our transit went well... but this aft/eve it was totally different... i imagine the poor fellow will be glad to finish today... a complete contrast to the normally exellent friendly service we get from the ladies and gents there...
to me they have been on the ball the whole time doing an exellent job sorting traffic before this monster zone came in... i think its going to suffer some teething problems for a couple of months...
for the short time i was on freq there was a constant stream of boll
kings for people who had entered 'the zone' one i believe was a low hour ppl at GAM who was given a good talking to about entering the zone.... another was told to consult the new airspace before making another flightfirst thing this morning the controller seemd to be ok..our transit went well... but this aft/eve it was totally different... i imagine the poor fellow will be glad to finish today... a complete contrast to the normally exellent friendly service we get from the ladies and gents there...
to me they have been on the ball the whole time doing an exellent job sorting traffic before this monster zone came in... i think its going to suffer some teething problems for a couple of months...
The Original Foot
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Ooooeeer
I haven't even got my chart through from Flightstore yet! Not looking forward to flying out of Sandtoft tomorrow....
Glad to see they are using a light hand to start with (although I know they don't have too....)
Glad to see they are using a light hand to start with (although I know they don't have too....)
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it will be easy 
from memory the zone at CF starts at 2000ft if you do happen to bust their zone (provided its early in the day) they will give you a gentle hint, just ask for a zone transit... there is very rearely IFR traffic that will conflict with you
it would be interesting to hear from other aviators (or atc?) experiances with this new zone?
p.s. there should be some sheets in the club with all the new details
from memory the zone at CF starts at 2000ft if you do happen to bust their zone (provided its early in the day) they will give you a gentle hint, just ask for a zone transit... there is very rearely IFR traffic that will conflict with you
it would be interesting to hear from other aviators (or atc?) experiances with this new zone?
p.s. there should be some sheets in the club with all the new details
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not on the chart yet in the 1/4 mil version so anyone not really understanding where the boundaries are may be forgiven. Is the AIP correct, it certainly does not appear to be?
The Original Foot
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I'm sure it will be here tomorrow morning (pre-order job), just would like to have a good look at it on a chart (I have got the AIS download...)
Sandtoft is on the edge of CTA 1 (1500) and CTR 1 (surface). I suspect there is a Letter of Agreement, I understand one is in place for Netherthorpe, which gives a coridor up to Gamston, but I haven't been able to get any details yet...
Sandtoft is on the edge of CTA 1 (1500) and CTR 1 (surface). I suspect there is a Letter of Agreement, I understand one is in place for Netherthorpe, which gives a coridor up to Gamston, but I haven't been able to get any details yet...
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Sandtoft is on the edge of CTA 1 (1500) and CTR 1 (surface). I suspect there is a Letter of Agreement, I understand one is in place for Netherthorpe, which gives a coridor up to Gamston, but I haven't been able to get any details yet...
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If in doubt, go and speak to a CFI at any of the aerodromes under Class D airspace. Or even better, why not ring the Doncaster approach/radar assistant and ask for information on how your flight will be affected by controlled airspace?
Sandtoft have done a newsletter with excellent informaton and suggestions on operating in to and out of the aerodrome without infringing Class D airspace including photos on the geographic features for circuit flying and joining/leaving the ATZ.
Sandtoft have done a newsletter with excellent informaton and suggestions on operating in to and out of the aerodrome without infringing Class D airspace including photos on the geographic features for circuit flying and joining/leaving the ATZ.
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I flew through the new airspace on Thursday 28th,the day it was implemented.Absolutely no problem whatsoever,an early call at Ferrybridge
requesting direct to Gamston was approved immediately not above 2500 feet.This track took me almost overhead DSA.The new airspace looks complicated on the map,and will catch people out for a while,but as far as transiting the zone,commercial traffic permitting,the controllers are more than helpful.Also no problem on the return trip!
requesting direct to Gamston was approved immediately not above 2500 feet.This track took me almost overhead DSA.The new airspace looks complicated on the map,and will catch people out for a while,but as far as transiting the zone,commercial traffic permitting,the controllers are more than helpful.Also no problem on the return trip!
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It is an indictment of our CAS that the general tone of this thread is one where problems are expected and not the other way round. Is it not so very sad that a sort of relief is expressed by pploony that it was all OK.
IT SHOULD BE ALL OK ALWAYS. Yes there will be the occasional re-route either by track or height but it should be no more than that.
IT SHOULD BE ALL OK ALWAYS. Yes there will be the occasional re-route either by track or height but it should be no more than that.
I assume from the absence of any further postings on this subject that there is no problem with transits (or you're all still holding awaiting clearance). Thought so. ATC's job is not to disrupt you as many seem to think, and from my time at Liverpool, I can't remember denying anyone a VFR transit either. Since DSA's radar service is provided by the same controllers, the same would go for Donc. Most ATCO's take pride in moving the traffic and giving the pilots what they want whenever possible. From my experience as a DSA radar controller it is much easier to give a control service rather than a RIS or RAS.
I get the impression from some posters that it is felt that the provider, in this case Peel, has a policy about who can and can't transit the airspace. I can state categorically that this is not the case. It is purely the ATCO on the day who decides, and this is based purely on the traffic situation at the time. I can't speak for other service providers though.
I get the impression from some posters that it is felt that the provider, in this case Peel, has a policy about who can and can't transit the airspace. I can state categorically that this is not the case. It is purely the ATCO on the day who decides, and this is based purely on the traffic situation at the time. I can't speak for other service providers though.
The Original Foot
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I think the weather may be more of a factor, I haven't had any experience of it yet, as the cloud base hasn't been that high! 
I don't believe there is a view the Peel has a secret (or otherwise) policy of who passes or not, I feel the big part of the thread is the necessity of the airspace changes. I am sure everybody is being very careful at the beginning of the implementation (although I have heard tales of serious rants from Doncaster Radar to infringers - all second hand though) and we will only find out when the weather and SOP settles down.
I don't believe there is a view the Peel has a secret (or otherwise) policy of who passes or not, I feel the big part of the thread is the necessity of the airspace changes. I am sure everybody is being very careful at the beginning of the implementation (although I have heard tales of serious rants from Doncaster Radar to infringers - all second hand though) and we will only find out when the weather and SOP settles down.
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We had a long discussion on class G airspace and the mix of IFR and non transponding GA. There is a small risk of collision and hence Doncaster has got its controlled airspace. No way are they going to risk a collision between a glider and a 737.
Gliders, balloons do not have a level of control over their direction or levels so dont count on either being allowed in that space unless there is a big envelope of time between departures. Then we have the problem of NO transponder.
I can see more chunks of airspace being controlled in the future unless ATC can be sure of where someone is and have communication with them.
Pace
Gliders, balloons do not have a level of control over their direction or levels so dont count on either being allowed in that space unless there is a big envelope of time between departures. Then we have the problem of NO transponder.
I can see more chunks of airspace being controlled in the future unless ATC can be sure of where someone is and have communication with them.
Pace