Nppl Changes!
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Beagle - can you answer a specific question please?
It's been suggested elsewhere that a microlight instructional hour could only be taken on a Type Approved microlight, or in a solely-owned homebuilt, - on the basis that paid instruction is only allowed in these circumstances. I.e. that those of us flying a group owned homebuilt could not use this aircraft for a revalidation flight
If applied, this seem outside the spirit of the intention. However much fun practising PFLs in a different aircraft or flying a flexwing with reversed controls from three axis might be - it's unlikely to help my flying much in the way that I presume is intended?
It's been suggested elsewhere that a microlight instructional hour could only be taken on a Type Approved microlight, or in a solely-owned homebuilt, - on the basis that paid instruction is only allowed in these circumstances. I.e. that those of us flying a group owned homebuilt could not use this aircraft for a revalidation flight
If applied, this seem outside the spirit of the intention. However much fun practising PFLs in a different aircraft or flying a flexwing with reversed controls from three axis might be - it's unlikely to help my flying much in the way that I presume is intended?
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In saying that microlights have kept chipping away at the weight limit shows that BEagle has a very limited knowledge of the class. There has only been one weight limit increase in modern times, from 390kg to 450kg MAUW and this was to harmonise UK microlights with those in Europe.
In actual fact, European microlights are generally heavier than UK versions as they use a different reserve figure for pilot and fuel weight in the MAUW calculation.
When looking at the safety of UK microlight pilots, we are amongst the safest in the world and are better than most countries that have mandatory training requirements.
The NPPL P&SG cannot show a reason for revalidation changes to be imposed on microlight NPPL owners, other than saying 'because we have to do it in GA'. That's not a good enough reason and certainly not a reason to change the licenses of 90% of NPPL holders.
I am all for encouraging on-going training, I am not for mandating it. Neither were the CAA Microlight Panel of Examiners, but their views were also ignored by the P&SG when they officially rejected the need for on-going training. Consider that the panel is made up from the most experienced microlight instructors in the UK.
And I am certainly not for letting someone legally fly a light aircraft with only 1 hour on the class in the previous 2 years. The NPPL P&SG proposals contain this exact change. How can that be safe?
To say that responders expressing the same views as others were part of a concerted effort to influence the committee is arrogance beyond belief. Why would anyone respond to an RIA if not to influence the outcome?
Should all signatures, after the first one, be discounted on a petition?
Microlights are the only growth sector in European aviation. The jealousy and and hatred of them in BEagle's post (how Gucci is my aircraft?) shows that he is certainly not fit to decide on how microlight pilots should be licensed. How the CAA could have allowed 6 organisations representing 10% of license holders to rule over 1 organisation representing 90%, is a question that needs answering. UK microlights and their pilots are amongst the very heaviest regulated in Europe. Do not be surprised if they do not want yet more regulation.
The NPPL proposals are a serious erosion of microlight freedoms and this is not over yet.
In actual fact, European microlights are generally heavier than UK versions as they use a different reserve figure for pilot and fuel weight in the MAUW calculation.
When looking at the safety of UK microlight pilots, we are amongst the safest in the world and are better than most countries that have mandatory training requirements.
The NPPL P&SG cannot show a reason for revalidation changes to be imposed on microlight NPPL owners, other than saying 'because we have to do it in GA'. That's not a good enough reason and certainly not a reason to change the licenses of 90% of NPPL holders.
I am all for encouraging on-going training, I am not for mandating it. Neither were the CAA Microlight Panel of Examiners, but their views were also ignored by the P&SG when they officially rejected the need for on-going training. Consider that the panel is made up from the most experienced microlight instructors in the UK.
And I am certainly not for letting someone legally fly a light aircraft with only 1 hour on the class in the previous 2 years. The NPPL P&SG proposals contain this exact change. How can that be safe?
To say that responders expressing the same views as others were part of a concerted effort to influence the committee is arrogance beyond belief. Why would anyone respond to an RIA if not to influence the outcome?
Should all signatures, after the first one, be discounted on a petition?
Microlights are the only growth sector in European aviation. The jealousy and and hatred of them in BEagle's post (how Gucci is my aircraft?) shows that he is certainly not fit to decide on how microlight pilots should be licensed. How the CAA could have allowed 6 organisations representing 10% of license holders to rule over 1 organisation representing 90%, is a question that needs answering. UK microlights and their pilots are amongst the very heaviest regulated in Europe. Do not be surprised if they do not want yet more regulation.
The NPPL proposals are a serious erosion of microlight freedoms and this is not over yet.
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No it isn't! I was stating a general point; it is not difficult to spot orchestrated responses.
When you sign a petion is that not a 'orchestrated response' ? Does that make your point any less valid ?
When you march down down London (for instance) in a assembly is that not a orchestrated response. ? Does that make your point any less valid ?
When you write a letter to your Bank manager complaining about bank charges and ask for a refund (which hundreds of people have done by cutting and pasting templates from a websites such as moneysavingexpert.com) Does that make your request for a refund any less vaild ?
If you search the internet there are hundreds of standard template compaint forms for cut and pasting for just about anything. Does that make them invalid ?
Sorry cut and paste objections/responses is just product of our times. Providing they are adequatley scrutinised so there is no abuse (same adressee etc.) then they are perfectly valid
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Firstly I apologise to all for leaping into the middle of a...um...'lively discussion' but I have two questions about the changes, and BEagle would appear to be the most knowledgable authority I have currently found. I have copies of the ANO and the Amendment No 2, but would like some independent clarification of my understanding.
I am a holder of an SSEA NPPL. It is valid under the 'rolling validation' system (1.8 hr training flight May 2007, 12hrs TT/9hrs P1 in last year). However, due to various reasons I need to take some time off from GA. Under the current system my NPPL will be invalid by May due TT; hence if I transferred to the new system I could theoretically take quite some time out without invalidation. I have a club currency check flight in March, and would quite like to use it as an NPPL revalidation flight to get on the new system.
Q1 I understand that an NPPL holder transfers onto the new system at the next revalidation flight. Am I correct in thinking that the flight under 'the new system' is the same as the 'old system' ie with an instructor (not an examiner)? And that the Certificate of Revalidation (when they are available) is signed by an examiner to say he is satisfied you have the appropriate TT + P1 time + 1hr flight with an instructor? The reason for my question is that the CFI at my club has put a notice in the clubhouse saying that henceforth, the NPPL revalidation flights need to be with an Examiner....
Q2 If, having revalidated for the next 24 months I chose to take lessons in a 3 axis microlight with a view to getting that rating, would the microlight P.U.T. time count toward my total time for the next revalidation...?
Many thanks
I am a holder of an SSEA NPPL. It is valid under the 'rolling validation' system (1.8 hr training flight May 2007, 12hrs TT/9hrs P1 in last year). However, due to various reasons I need to take some time off from GA. Under the current system my NPPL will be invalid by May due TT; hence if I transferred to the new system I could theoretically take quite some time out without invalidation. I have a club currency check flight in March, and would quite like to use it as an NPPL revalidation flight to get on the new system.
Q1 I understand that an NPPL holder transfers onto the new system at the next revalidation flight. Am I correct in thinking that the flight under 'the new system' is the same as the 'old system' ie with an instructor (not an examiner)? And that the Certificate of Revalidation (when they are available) is signed by an examiner to say he is satisfied you have the appropriate TT + P1 time + 1hr flight with an instructor? The reason for my question is that the CFI at my club has put a notice in the clubhouse saying that henceforth, the NPPL revalidation flights need to be with an Examiner....
Q2 If, having revalidated for the next 24 months I chose to take lessons in a 3 axis microlight with a view to getting that rating, would the microlight P.U.T. time count toward my total time for the next revalidation...?
Many thanks
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The percentage of addressees - including the suspected orchestrated respondents - who objected to the revised revalidation criteria was less than 1.5%.…
I think you are being very disingenuous there with your figures and suggest you think again….
Lets see, I can’t comment on the exact breakdown as I have no actual figures however some of the respondents to this thread have quoted figures of only 10% ruling over 90 % of people affected by this revalidation. If this is the case then your quoted figure of 1.5% figure objection is totally erroneous….(I will leave you the fairly trivial exercise of working out the actual percentage of objections based on the above figures…)
Try again….
Last edited by Just an Engineer; 5th Feb 2008 at 14:31. Reason: Typo
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I am a little lost about the emotion of the replies here. I really don't understand the issue with having an hour with an Instructor every couple of years to keep things sharp. As an Instructor I do 2 or 3 a week of these and everyone who does them think they are great value.
I do my ME/IR renewal every year and that gives me my hour or so with an Instructor as a flight test, always good value.
As a microlight pilot albeit with only around 300hrs the standard of airmanship often displayed by ML pilots will benefit from an hour with an Instructor. The comments about the hot ships is valid as well, ML pilots are flying increasingly faster and more capable aircraft, they should ensure that they are safe in the same way as the old 'slow' spam can drivers.
I do my ME/IR renewal every year and that gives me my hour or so with an Instructor as a flight test, always good value.
As a microlight pilot albeit with only around 300hrs the standard of airmanship often displayed by ML pilots will benefit from an hour with an Instructor. The comments about the hot ships is valid as well, ML pilots are flying increasingly faster and more capable aircraft, they should ensure that they are safe in the same way as the old 'slow' spam can drivers.
Thread Starter
I am a holder of an SSEA NPPL. It is valid under the 'rolling validation' system (1.8 hr training flight May 2007, 12hrs TT/9hrs P1 in last year). However, due to various reasons I need to take some time off from GA. Under the current system my NPPL will be invalid by May due TT; hence if I transferred to the new system I could theoretically take quite some time out without invalidation. I have a club currency check flight in March, and would quite like to use it as an NPPL revalidation flight to get on the new system.
Q1 I understand that an NPPL holder transfers onto the new system at the next revalidation flight.
YES
Am I correct in thinking that the flight under 'the new system' is the same as the 'old system' ie with an instructor (not an examiner)?
NOT QUITE – it is no longer a single flight but a total of 60 min. But conducted with an authorised instructor – does not need to be a FE.
And that the Certificate of Revalidation (when they are available) is signed by an examiner to say he is satisfied you have the appropriate TT + P1 time + 1hr flight with an instructor?
YES – the CofR is signed by an Examiner.
The reason for my question is that the CFI at my club has put a notice in the clubhouse saying that henceforth, the NPPL revalidation flights need to be with an Examiner....
WHY?? There is no such ANO requirement.
Q2 If, having revalidated for the next 24 months I chose to take lessons in a 3 axis microlight with a view to getting that rating, would the microlight P.U.T. time count toward my total time for the next revalidation...?
NO – you first have to add the Microlight Class Rating to your licence if you wish to benefit from consolidated revalidation requirements.
bose-x - it is clear that many people on here do protest too much.....
Q1 I understand that an NPPL holder transfers onto the new system at the next revalidation flight.
YES
Am I correct in thinking that the flight under 'the new system' is the same as the 'old system' ie with an instructor (not an examiner)?
NOT QUITE – it is no longer a single flight but a total of 60 min. But conducted with an authorised instructor – does not need to be a FE.
And that the Certificate of Revalidation (when they are available) is signed by an examiner to say he is satisfied you have the appropriate TT + P1 time + 1hr flight with an instructor?
YES – the CofR is signed by an Examiner.
The reason for my question is that the CFI at my club has put a notice in the clubhouse saying that henceforth, the NPPL revalidation flights need to be with an Examiner....
WHY?? There is no such ANO requirement.
Q2 If, having revalidated for the next 24 months I chose to take lessons in a 3 axis microlight with a view to getting that rating, would the microlight P.U.T. time count toward my total time for the next revalidation...?
NO – you first have to add the Microlight Class Rating to your licence if you wish to benefit from consolidated revalidation requirements.
bose-x - it is clear that many people on here do protest too much.....
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BEagle, Now that you're talking to us again, can you answer a specific question please?
It's been suggested elsewhere that a microlight instructional hour could only be taken on a Type Approved microlight, or in a solely-owned homebuilt, - on the basis that paid instruction is only allowed in these circumstances. I.e. that those of us flying a group owned homebuilt could not use this aircraft for a revalidation flight
If applied, this seem outside the spirit of the intention. However much fun practising PFLs in a different aircraft or flying a flexwing with reversed controls from three axis might be - it's unlikely to help my flying much in the way that I presume is intended?
It's been suggested elsewhere that a microlight instructional hour could only be taken on a Type Approved microlight, or in a solely-owned homebuilt, - on the basis that paid instruction is only allowed in these circumstances. I.e. that those of us flying a group owned homebuilt could not use this aircraft for a revalidation flight
If applied, this seem outside the spirit of the intention. However much fun practising PFLs in a different aircraft or flying a flexwing with reversed controls from three axis might be - it's unlikely to help my flying much in the way that I presume is intended?
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bose-x - it is clear that many people on here do protest too much.....
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WHY?? There is no such ANO requirement.
My thoughts exactly! Hence my wading through the ANO as best I can. I detect a combination of confusion and a lack of drive to understand, though the CFI didn't seem to want to discuss it...
Hopefully, by the time I do the flight, the light bulb will have come on over his head - but I will make sure the instructor signs up my logbook in any case.
Thanks for taking the time to answer my questions.
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would the microlight P.U.T. time count toward my total time for the next revalidation...?
NO – you first have to add the Microlight Class Rating to your licence if you wish to benefit from consolidated revalidation requirements.
NO – you first have to add the Microlight Class Rating to your licence if you wish to benefit from consolidated revalidation requirements.
Thread Starter
Shortsighted Gink - see the 'Licence Allowances' tab on www.nppl.co.uk and
you will find the requirements.
neilb2nd - I cannot answer that question as it is an airworthiness issue, not a licensing issue.
you will find the requirements.
neilb2nd - I cannot answer that question as it is an airworthiness issue, not a licensing issue.
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Beagle, is your way of preaching!!
this is what i get from your WWW.nppl.co.uk link!!
HeART of God Festival
7 - 11 August 2008
Bringing the Heart of God into the Heart of Europe (Austria)!
<DIV class=container><DIV class=navigation>Prophetic Workshop Participate & Present March for Jesus Film Festival Song Contest
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this is what i get from your WWW.nppl.co.uk link!!
HeART of God Festival
7 - 11 August 2008
Bringing the Heart of God into the Heart of Europe (Austria)!
Austria
Austria
<DIV class=container><DIV class=navigation>Prophetic Workshop Participate & Present March for Jesus Film Festival Song Contest
Song Contest. Live-on-Stage!
4. If a contestant belongs to the circle of friends of a Juror, then this juror cannot take part in the evaluation of this contestant. The decisions of the jury are accepted as binding and irrevocable. A challenge of the decision of the jury on the course of law is impossible.
5. If, after judging and the allocation of prizes, a contestant is discovered to have breached the conditions of participation, the contestant will be stripped of that award.
6. If you would like to submit a song / composition (or two or three) to AMSC, then we kindly ask you to send us your entry:
Entry Requirements. Each entry requires the following:
A. A provisional Demo recording of your complete song (4 minutes in length or less) on a CD, audiocassette, or DVD.
B. Lyrics. (No lyrics necessary for instrumental compositions.) Note: If the Lyrics, or parts of the Lyrics, is not already in English or German, then please include also an English or German translation of the Lyrics.
C. A completed Entry Form with a photo and a photocopy of your passport / identity card.
7. The registration takes place via the signing of the Entry Form and is valid only with the enclosure of the provisional Demo recording on a CD, Audiocassette, or DVD. The provisional Demo recording should contain only the song (or songs or instrumental composition[s]) intended for the Song Contest.No other forms are needed.
8. Please note that the songs of the Austrian Mission Song Contest (AMSC) may have already been sung at other festivals or contests. Songs may have multiple co-writers, but please name only one writer on the application. If your song wins an award, then the designated writer is responsible for the division of the award to all other writers.
9. The AMSC is not responsible for entries that are late, lost, damaged, misdirected, stolen, or misappropriated, or where the postage is not fully paid; and is also not responsible for faulty files or Internet uploads, if applicable.
10. Entry submission means that AMSC can use the names, likenesses, and voices of the winners without additional compensation for future advertising and publicity purposes. Entries cannot be returned. The number of participants is limited. With the submission of an entry, the contestant acknowledges the conditions of participation. Conditions of Participations are subject to change without prior notice.
-----------------------------------------------------------------
Entry Form (Please print out this portion.)
I am in agreement with the Conditions of Participations, and I confirm that my statements are true and valid:
Date and Place: ______________________________________________
Date of Birth: ________________________________________________
Name*: ______________________________________________________
*Print Your Name in capital letters. You need to register your name as it appears on your passport or identity card.
Signature**: __________________________________________________
**A responsible adult must accompany and co-sign for those who are 17 or younger.
Full Address: ________________________________________
___________________________________________________
___________________________________________________
___________________________________________________
Telephone Number & Mobile Number: __________________________
Email: ________________________________________________________
Song Title: ______________________________________________
Song Category: __________________________________________
Composer: ______________________________________________
Running Time: ___________________________________________
(Note: If you want to enter more songs, please continue to write on the reverse side.)
Exact Name of the Group, including the Interpreter (Singer or Musician):
____________________________________________________________ __
Name and Email addresses of the contributory people (Band, choirs, etc.): ____________________________________________________________ __
____________________________________________________________ __
____________________________________________________________ __
I have enclosed the following:
A. A provisional Demo recording.
B. Lyrics (if applicable).
C. A photo and a photocopy of my passport / identity card.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
Please post your entries to:
Song Contest
Altschlaining 52
A-7461 Stadtschlaining
Austria
Europe
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
German Version:
Song Contest. Live-On-Stage!
http://kunstfestival.at/liedwettbewerb.html
(One of the events of the HeART of God Festival)
<FONT size=5>When? August 11, 20082. The contestants commit themselves to participate in the AMSC at their own expense, to be free for performances on the Song Contest day, as well as to be available without compensation for possible rehearsals, press conferences, interviews, and the like. Please bring your passport or identity card to the Song Contest. A responsible adult must accompany and co-sign for those who are 17 or younger.</P>3. Songs will be judged based on originality, melody, composition and lyrics. The quality of performance and production will not be considered. During the AMSC, the background music can be pre-recorded, but the singing must be live. The contestants consent to participate in the event WITHOUT compensation. Accommodation and food are NOT provided to the participants. Journey costs are NOT compensated.4. If a contestant belongs to the circle of friends of a Juror, then this juror cannot take part in the evaluation of this contestant. The decisions of the jury are accepted as binding and irrevocable. A challenge of the decision of the jury on the course of law is impossible.
5. If, after judging and the allocation of prizes, a contestant is discovered to have breached the conditions of participation, the contestant will be stripped of that award.
6. If you would like to submit a song / composition (or two or three) to AMSC, then we kindly ask you to send us your entry:
Entry Requirements. Each entry requires the following:
A. A provisional Demo recording of your complete song (4 minutes in length or less) on a CD, audiocassette, or DVD.
B. Lyrics. (No lyrics necessary for instrumental compositions.) Note: If the Lyrics, or parts of the Lyrics, is not already in English or German, then please include also an English or German translation of the Lyrics.
C. A completed Entry Form with a photo and a photocopy of your passport / identity card.
7. The registration takes place via the signing of the Entry Form and is valid only with the enclosure of the provisional Demo recording on a CD, Audiocassette, or DVD. The provisional Demo recording should contain only the song (or songs or instrumental composition[s]) intended for the Song Contest.No other forms are needed.
8. Please note that the songs of the Austrian Mission Song Contest (AMSC) may have already been sung at other festivals or contests. Songs may have multiple co-writers, but please name only one writer on the application. If your song wins an award, then the designated writer is responsible for the division of the award to all other writers.
9. The AMSC is not responsible for entries that are late, lost, damaged, misdirected, stolen, or misappropriated, or where the postage is not fully paid; and is also not responsible for faulty files or Internet uploads, if applicable.
10. Entry submission means that AMSC can use the names, likenesses, and voices of the winners without additional compensation for future advertising and publicity purposes. Entries cannot be returned. The number of participants is limited. With the submission of an entry, the contestant acknowledges the conditions of participation. Conditions of Participations are subject to change without prior notice.
-----------------------------------------------------------------
Entry Form (Please print out this portion.)
I am in agreement with the Conditions of Participations, and I confirm that my statements are true and valid:
Date and Place: ______________________________________________
Date of Birth: ________________________________________________
Name*: ______________________________________________________
*Print Your Name in capital letters. You need to register your name as it appears on your passport or identity card.
Signature**: __________________________________________________
**A responsible adult must accompany and co-sign for those who are 17 or younger.
Full Address: ________________________________________
___________________________________________________
___________________________________________________
___________________________________________________
Telephone Number & Mobile Number: __________________________
Email: ________________________________________________________
Song Title: ______________________________________________
Song Category: __________________________________________
Composer: ______________________________________________
Running Time: ___________________________________________
(Note: If you want to enter more songs, please continue to write on the reverse side.)
Exact Name of the Group, including the Interpreter (Singer or Musician):
____________________________________________________________ __
Name and Email addresses of the contributory people (Band, choirs, etc.): ____________________________________________________________ __
____________________________________________________________ __
____________________________________________________________ __
I have enclosed the following:
A. A provisional Demo recording.
B. Lyrics (if applicable).
C. A photo and a photocopy of my passport / identity card.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
Please post your entries to:
Song Contest
Altschlaining 52
A-7461 Stadtschlaining
Austria
Europe
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
German Version:
Song Contest. Live-On-Stage!
http://kunstfestival.at/liedwettbewerb.html
Restitution
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