What Ever Happened to BCT at Kemble
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Hi, I spoke to Paul before my initial thread and he put the phone down when I asked him when the liquidation of BCT had started. He said back in July he had taken over BCT and asked me to send a copy of the invoice for payment which I did and he sais now he new nothing about it and now sais BCT was never owned/operated by him and he too has lost a lot of money and did not get the training he paid for. Can anyone confirm he is a CPL with an instructor rating because in Feb last year he was the Ops mng at BCT and was studying for his PPL!
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Yes I found this too. I also spoke to Paul at the same BCT tel land line number operating from the same exact building at Kemble that BCT frequented both last year and this, after their move from the Delta Jets side of the airfield a while ago.
It would appear it is easy to fund a new airline if you steal other peoples money!
It would appear it is easy to fund a new airline if you steal other peoples money!
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One of their aircraft G-Zoo I think is still owned by BCT according to the CAA but is potentially going through an owner change. probably Paul at Trans International Airways !
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Many thanks for your hard work on my behalf..
I will try something. Not sure what though. I will probably seek legal advice and go to court. I might try what you suggest and make contact with the original BCT owner in the hope that they have some integrity. I would assume that who ever owned/cashed my cheque in May 05 owes me the money or services to that end.
I will try something. Not sure what though. I will probably seek legal advice and go to court. I might try what you suggest and make contact with the original BCT owner in the hope that they have some integrity. I would assume that who ever owned/cashed my cheque in May 05 owes me the money or services to that end.
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You paid £1400 for 10 hours, and had about £200 value out of it, so they owe you £1,200. You can take them to the Small Claims Court, win, and get judgement, but that won't get you the money. Enforcing the judgement will cost you more money, and still may get you nothing if there are no assets.
My advice would be to move on unless you are sure that the entity against which you can get a judgement really has the liquid assets to meet the award. I once spent three months chasing a £10,000 debt. It would have been cheaper to have left it, and moved on, as I could have made more money in the time I spent chasing it than I finally won. For £1200 I'd just spend the next few years telling all you meet in aviation circles who it was that ripped you off. What goes around, comes around, I find.
If they do have the assets, then go for them. Once you have the judgement, transfer it to the High Court, and get their bailiffs onto it. They won't stop at anything short of a 12 bore, and the costs mount up fast. It could cost them another £1,500 in enforcement, on top of your debt
My advice would be to move on unless you are sure that the entity against which you can get a judgement really has the liquid assets to meet the award. I once spent three months chasing a £10,000 debt. It would have been cheaper to have left it, and moved on, as I could have made more money in the time I spent chasing it than I finally won. For £1200 I'd just spend the next few years telling all you meet in aviation circles who it was that ripped you off. What goes around, comes around, I find.
If they do have the assets, then go for them. Once you have the judgement, transfer it to the High Court, and get their bailiffs onto it. They won't stop at anything short of a 12 bore, and the costs mount up fast. It could cost them another £1,500 in enforcement, on top of your debt
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Once you have the judgement, transfer it to the High Court, and get their bailiffs onto it. They won't stop at anything short of a 12 bore, and the costs mount up fast. It could cost them another £1,500 in enforcement, on top of your debt
Not true for small claims (up to £5k from memory). I just had a judgement for £1,200 against someone. It cost £55 to issue the warrant and have the county court bailiffs go round.
For the amount involved, I would certainly take a punt on a small claims action. Your costs are likely no more than £200 for claim, judgment & warrant. It won't go near a High Court.
Not true for small claims (up to £5k from memory). I just had a judgement for £1,200 against someone. It cost £55 to issue the warrant and have the county court bailiffs go round.
For the amount involved, I would certainly take a punt on a small claims action. Your costs are likely no more than £200 for claim, judgment & warrant. It won't go near a High Court.
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A new venture
Pawl Shanley has moved the operation to The Flying Club Kemble, apparantly he is a director of the new venture which had a champagne launch on the 13th. You could try there he was collecting debts for BCT so there must be some money about.
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You are being given some duff advice here(as per usual)
You cannot opt to have the CC case heard near where you live it is heard at the court nearest the defendant, with joint agreement it can be possible heard at an agreed mid point (wont happen) it will be Bristol.
You can use moneyclaim online but be careful because the description of the claim is limited to a set number of words You need to be sure who you are taking to court, the company or the individual.Cases can be thrown out if you do not get the wording correct
Several people have mentioned getting the company would up--dont bother you will probably end up getting a penny in the pound, always try and get your money first. You can bet your botttom dollar they will owe customs and inland revenue too and they are preferential creditors.
You can only be succesful with a CC action if you get the money. If the company or individual have no money--guess what?
limited companies are just that, limited liabillity
You cannot opt to have the CC case heard near where you live it is heard at the court nearest the defendant, with joint agreement it can be possible heard at an agreed mid point (wont happen) it will be Bristol.
You can use moneyclaim online but be careful because the description of the claim is limited to a set number of words You need to be sure who you are taking to court, the company or the individual.Cases can be thrown out if you do not get the wording correct
Several people have mentioned getting the company would up--dont bother you will probably end up getting a penny in the pound, always try and get your money first. You can bet your botttom dollar they will owe customs and inland revenue too and they are preferential creditors.
You can only be succesful with a CC action if you get the money. If the company or individual have no money--guess what?
limited companies are just that, limited liabillity
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Hi, thanks. As Pawl Shanley put the tel down on me when I began to ask him questions about my money and BCT being wound up, I do not think he is likely to listen to me or offer any repayment of my money. You say he was flashing cash at a new openeing of a business, what a cheek!
I have since discovered that an instructor friend is still trying to get paid for hours worked a while ago. He alaso asked Pawl last week if he could verify his working period at BCT Kemble for a job application and Pawl said he would not do this for him, what an ass! Pawl also said his best bet was to track down Captain Mathew Litten, but when he does let him know as the police are looking for him for money he has stollen from BCT. He is either slandering another pilot or a bit of an ass himself. Can anyone shed light on this. I still do not know what to do regarding my owed £1,200 from BCT where a man called Pawl Shanley said he was running the business but puts the phone down and burries his head in the sand while spending money on champaign and new business ventures. I feel very sorry for my instructor friend who helped out BCT/Pawl Shanley's business with his instructing and cannot even get confirmation from him that he worked there for a job application and might not get the job as a result.
Mart.
I have since discovered that an instructor friend is still trying to get paid for hours worked a while ago. He alaso asked Pawl last week if he could verify his working period at BCT Kemble for a job application and Pawl said he would not do this for him, what an ass! Pawl also said his best bet was to track down Captain Mathew Litten, but when he does let him know as the police are looking for him for money he has stollen from BCT. He is either slandering another pilot or a bit of an ass himself. Can anyone shed light on this. I still do not know what to do regarding my owed £1,200 from BCT where a man called Pawl Shanley said he was running the business but puts the phone down and burries his head in the sand while spending money on champaign and new business ventures. I feel very sorry for my instructor friend who helped out BCT/Pawl Shanley's business with his instructing and cannot even get confirmation from him that he worked there for a job application and might not get the job as a result.
Mart.
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Thank you for your advice. What a hassle.
I hope as the aviation world seems very small and close that this Pawl individual or who ever is ultimately responsible for taking my money fails in there new business venture and gets the legal recourse which is due them. Mart.
I hope as the aviation world seems very small and close that this Pawl individual or who ever is ultimately responsible for taking my money fails in there new business venture and gets the legal recourse which is due them. Mart.
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It may be worth noting here, for the benefit of other people's searches etc, that Pawl Shanley is now apparently part of a merger of two business at Kemble, namely The Flying Club Kemble and TIA Aviation Flight Training.
If he's there on a regular basis, prehaps you could visit him in person?
If he's there on a regular basis, prehaps you could visit him in person?
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Try clicking on these
http://www.flyer.co.uk/news/newsfeed.php?artnum=679
http://wck2.companieshouse.gov.uk/ec...2e/compdetails
FYI
BCT Aviation Kemble Ltd Co No 04599393
County Court Judgement No 7BS07968 for £2550 at Bristol on 4/9/2007
Winding Up Petition issued 19/10/2007
Director & Secretary Pawl John Shanley, 1 Patsyat Cottage, Kemble, GL7 6AY, appointed 28/2/2007. By the sound of your original post he wasn't in post when they took your money.
If you have evidence that they have traded while insolvent you could try for personal liability against the then Directors but realistically I reckon you've lost your money. It's woth noting that insolvent means that the business is unable to pay its debts as they become due, not that it does not have enough assets to cover its liabilities.
For example if it's had 10k of prepayments from customers like you and has used the dosh to pay off creditors it's not insolvent, it only becomes so when it is unable to meet a debt that is due.
http://www.flyer.co.uk/news/newsfeed.php?artnum=679
http://wck2.companieshouse.gov.uk/ec...2e/compdetails
FYI
BCT Aviation Kemble Ltd Co No 04599393
County Court Judgement No 7BS07968 for £2550 at Bristol on 4/9/2007
Winding Up Petition issued 19/10/2007
Director & Secretary Pawl John Shanley, 1 Patsyat Cottage, Kemble, GL7 6AY, appointed 28/2/2007. By the sound of your original post he wasn't in post when they took your money.
If you have evidence that they have traded while insolvent you could try for personal liability against the then Directors but realistically I reckon you've lost your money. It's woth noting that insolvent means that the business is unable to pay its debts as they become due, not that it does not have enough assets to cover its liabilities.
For example if it's had 10k of prepayments from customers like you and has used the dosh to pay off creditors it's not insolvent, it only becomes so when it is unable to meet a debt that is due.
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Protect your sanity
A long time ago, when dinosaurs roamed the earth, I shared an office with Pawl Couzens. That's Pawl Shanley to you. This fellow is an idiot: a real-life Clouseau. I was suffering from clinical depression at the time, and his imbecilic behaviour drove me close to suicide.
Here are some examples of his genius, chosen randomly. I will forgive you if you don't believe the stories: they should be fiction, but sadly they are not.
1. I am returning a borrowed car to its owner. Pawl is following me in another car, to give me a lift back to the office. As soon as we get onto the motorway, he overtakes me, drives extraordinarily fast for a few miles, then pulls into the first service area we come to. 'What's up?' I ask. 'Where exactly are we going?' replies Pawl.
2. Pawl sells advertising for the magazine on which I work as a journalist. One day he needs to ring a marketing person at an Italian company. He makes several calls to his Italian contact, unfailingly speaking with an Italian accent throughout. (Pawl is actually from Bath, and speaks with a slight westcountry accent.)
3. Three times, Pawl was asked if he knew the name of some particular person. Once it was an attractive young woman I wanted to introduce myself to; once it was a new neighbour on the industrial estate where we worked; once it was the fellow who came around the estate each day selling pies and pasties. Each time he answered confidently and (I and others subsequently discovered) incorrectly. I have to assume that, presented with a question he couldn't answer, he simply made something up, apparently quite unaware that we would discover the truth sooner rather than later.
So I've read this thread with some interest. My reaction is this.
1. It would not be beyond Pawl to invent a VAT number.
2. He is exactly the sort of person who would find himself the sole director of a dying, debt-ridden company as the other directors run for cover.
3. The idea of starting a new company, transferring the ownership of everything of any value (planes) from a failing company to the new company, closing the old company, then merging the new company with another company, would feel like pure genius to Pawl. In fact, I suspect he had help cooking that one up.
4. I design web-sites. The slickness of a web-site has no bearing on the solidity of a company. All we know about TIA from the web-site is that they/he got a good designer to build the site. Has the designer been paid? The snaps of the executive jet used in the Flash sequence are unquestionably marketing pics from the manufacturer — they are very high quality montages, and were not taken live.
Now I know that £12,000 is a lot of money, but what value do you place on your sanity? You will get nowhere dealing with this twerp. Keep a step removed. Pawl Shanley is so stupid he's dangerous. Your only possible source of satisfaction would be seeing to it that HMRC roast him alive.
As to why he changed his name — frankly I neither know nor care. It happened shortly after I left the company. I noticed when I was reading the magazine I had worked for. Perhaps it was creditor avoidance? Perhaps he just forgot his name one day and made something up.
Here are some examples of his genius, chosen randomly. I will forgive you if you don't believe the stories: they should be fiction, but sadly they are not.
1. I am returning a borrowed car to its owner. Pawl is following me in another car, to give me a lift back to the office. As soon as we get onto the motorway, he overtakes me, drives extraordinarily fast for a few miles, then pulls into the first service area we come to. 'What's up?' I ask. 'Where exactly are we going?' replies Pawl.
2. Pawl sells advertising for the magazine on which I work as a journalist. One day he needs to ring a marketing person at an Italian company. He makes several calls to his Italian contact, unfailingly speaking with an Italian accent throughout. (Pawl is actually from Bath, and speaks with a slight westcountry accent.)
3. Three times, Pawl was asked if he knew the name of some particular person. Once it was an attractive young woman I wanted to introduce myself to; once it was a new neighbour on the industrial estate where we worked; once it was the fellow who came around the estate each day selling pies and pasties. Each time he answered confidently and (I and others subsequently discovered) incorrectly. I have to assume that, presented with a question he couldn't answer, he simply made something up, apparently quite unaware that we would discover the truth sooner rather than later.
So I've read this thread with some interest. My reaction is this.
1. It would not be beyond Pawl to invent a VAT number.
2. He is exactly the sort of person who would find himself the sole director of a dying, debt-ridden company as the other directors run for cover.
3. The idea of starting a new company, transferring the ownership of everything of any value (planes) from a failing company to the new company, closing the old company, then merging the new company with another company, would feel like pure genius to Pawl. In fact, I suspect he had help cooking that one up.
4. I design web-sites. The slickness of a web-site has no bearing on the solidity of a company. All we know about TIA from the web-site is that they/he got a good designer to build the site. Has the designer been paid? The snaps of the executive jet used in the Flash sequence are unquestionably marketing pics from the manufacturer — they are very high quality montages, and were not taken live.
Now I know that £12,000 is a lot of money, but what value do you place on your sanity? You will get nowhere dealing with this twerp. Keep a step removed. Pawl Shanley is so stupid he's dangerous. Your only possible source of satisfaction would be seeing to it that HMRC roast him alive.
As to why he changed his name — frankly I neither know nor care. It happened shortly after I left the company. I noticed when I was reading the magazine I had worked for. Perhaps it was creditor avoidance? Perhaps he just forgot his name one day and made something up.
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Perhaps he just forgot his name one day and made something up.
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A few facts
Interesting reading, I also know a friend who has had the misfurtune of working in the same office as Shanley/Couzens, I would say with but that would imply he actually did work!
True facts:
Shanley/Couzens was signed in as a Director at the begining of 2007
(Against the wishes of Captain Litten)
All staff at the time handed in their notices and left
Whilst Captain Litten was working away on buisness he was sacked by Shanley over the phone for not letting him know where abouts he was.
Captain Litten was told not to return to the office and on his return found that the locks on the office door had been changed.
This is the truth, if money did go missing from the company then look in a different direction!
True facts:
Shanley/Couzens was signed in as a Director at the begining of 2007
(Against the wishes of Captain Litten)
All staff at the time handed in their notices and left
Whilst Captain Litten was working away on buisness he was sacked by Shanley over the phone for not letting him know where abouts he was.
Captain Litten was told not to return to the office and on his return found that the locks on the office door had been changed.
This is the truth, if money did go missing from the company then look in a different direction!