What Ever Happened to BCT at Kemble
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What Ever Happened to BCT at Kemble
I purchased a 10 hour block of AOC flight time from BCT at Kemble and have attempted to utilise them over a year or so and every time I called for a booking I was informed there was no aircraft or pilot availability. I only managed to use 1.4 hours of this time at the time of original block purchase. The tower at Kemble now informs me they are no longer operating.
Does anyone out there no what has happened, what I can do etc. Any advice would be most appreciated. In summary I am owed in excess of £1,200.
Does anyone out there no what has happened, what I can do etc. Any advice would be most appreciated. In summary I am owed in excess of £1,200.
niknak
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If you paid with a credit card, your card provider is responsible for refunding you, get in touch with them immediately - you'll need to provide evidence, i.e reciepts if you still have them.
If you didn't pay by credit card I'm afraid there's every likelyhood that you've lost the lot.
It's no comfort to you, but this is yet another timely reminder that no one should pay up front for "block hours", no matter how attractive the deal may appear to be at the time, organisations who offer this facility are often scratching the surface to survive and usually cannot be relied upon.
If you didn't pay by credit card I'm afraid there's every likelyhood that you've lost the lot.
It's no comfort to you, but this is yet another timely reminder that no one should pay up front for "block hours", no matter how attractive the deal may appear to be at the time, organisations who offer this facility are often scratching the surface to survive and usually cannot be relied upon.
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By cheque unfortunately. I normally pay by CCard but not this time.
I am attempting to locate who owes me the time/money but have made little progress. Companies house say they are still up and running and the aircraft I last flew 'G-OZOO' a Cessna 172 is still registered to BCT but the CAA say it is pending a potential owner change.
I cannot believe people can be so evil.
Has anyone heard of Captain Mathew Litten. He was the Chief Pilot who agreed the rate of £140 per hour and who I paid £1,400 for 10 hours.
I am attempting to locate who owes me the time/money but have made little progress. Companies house say they are still up and running and the aircraft I last flew 'G-OZOO' a Cessna 172 is still registered to BCT but the CAA say it is pending a potential owner change.
I cannot believe people can be so evil.
Has anyone heard of Captain Mathew Litten. He was the Chief Pilot who agreed the rate of £140 per hour and who I paid £1,400 for 10 hours.
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Sadly, it's because of people like you that these folk get away with it. Never mind the latest incarnations, I hope that everyone has heard of 'Captain' Simon Donaghue. I'm genuinely astonished at his progress since his days at Leavesden.
Note: Unless a holder of a Queen's commission, titles of rank are meaningless outside the immediate professional sphere. I think you mean you're looking for Mathew Litten.
Funnily enough, there's a Mathew Litten who's 'Chief Pilot' (a legend... in his own imagination, probably) at LAW Aviation, based at Kemble, according to
http://www.lawaviation.aero/home.html
Note: Unless a holder of a Queen's commission, titles of rank are meaningless outside the immediate professional sphere. I think you mean you're looking for Mathew Litten.
Funnily enough, there's a Mathew Litten who's 'Chief Pilot' (a legend... in his own imagination, probably) at LAW Aviation, based at Kemble, according to
http://www.lawaviation.aero/home.html
Bellwether&cloudbuster
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Who did you make the cheque payable to?
That will tell you who the contract is with...
Once you establish that, then couple of options. Final letter than off to the county court to issue claim. If it is a company you can issue a winding up order. That tends to get things moving... If it is an individual than you can also either get a judgment against them or make them bankrupt.
However, in all these cases it is a matter of working out whether the person can actually pay you because you do have to pay fees to the court to get things moving.
But the main thing is who the cheque was made out to....
That will tell you who the contract is with...
Once you establish that, then couple of options. Final letter than off to the county court to issue claim. If it is a company you can issue a winding up order. That tends to get things moving... If it is an individual than you can also either get a judgment against them or make them bankrupt.
However, in all these cases it is a matter of working out whether the person can actually pay you because you do have to pay fees to the court to get things moving.
But the main thing is who the cheque was made out to....
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The cheque was made out to BCT Aviation Kemble, I note there are some threads about BCT offering ab initio commercial training about the same time in early 2005, so they did exist!
The vat invoice clearly shows it was a company with a number although companies house and trading standards have no record of the number on the invoice.
Not sure what to do.
Customs and excise are quite interested too!
The vat invoice clearly shows it was a company with a number although companies house and trading standards have no record of the number on the invoice.
Not sure what to do.
Customs and excise are quite interested too!
Professional Student
The plot thickens!
Yes - they certainly did use to exist, flew with them about this time last year for 3 flights. Eventually went to OSFC instead as there was a better deal on hours.
Flew G-OZOO....the thing I remember about that aircraft was that it's transponder panel unit slid backwards out of the panel during a steep turn!
Out of interest, I did a quick Google & came up with this, although I'm not sure it will be of any use to you, it does have a reference number listed;
http://www.creditgate.com/search/sea...%20Non-Limited
Flew G-OZOO....the thing I remember about that aircraft was that it's transponder panel unit slid backwards out of the panel during a steep turn!
Out of interest, I did a quick Google & came up with this, although I'm not sure it will be of any use to you, it does have a reference number listed;
http://www.creditgate.com/search/sea...%20Non-Limited
Last edited by hobbit1983; 20th Nov 2007 at 08:50. Reason: spelling
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It appears from quick searches I have made that BCT Aviation Kemble Ltd is a dormant company. Matthew Litton left the Board on 16 April 2007. It is owned jointly by a Maureen Campbell and a Robert Brown, although both of them resigned as Directors on 21 March 2007. Sole remaining Director is Pawl Shanley.They had a CCJ judgement made against them in Bristol on 4 September 2007 for £2550.
Pawl Shanley registered Trans International Airways Ltd on 9 August 2006, with fellow Director Jane Shanley. This apparently trades from Building 9 at Kemble Airfield.
Interestingly, Robert Brown is also co-owner, but not a Director, of BCT Aviation Maintenance based at Cardiff Airport. This company is active. The other co-owner is a Mr R J Campbell. No idea if he is a relation of Maureen Campbell.
Further, Robert Brown started a new company on 27 April 2007 called Light Aircraft Leasing Ltd, based at his home, which is 116 Boughton Lane, Clowne, Chesterfield, Derbyshire, S43 4QF. Fellow Director is a Desmond White of Bristol.
He also registered a further company on 27 April 2007 called Cardiff Aviation Engineering Ltd. He is Director and Secretary, and a Christopher Dove of Surrey is also a Director.
Although I hold out little hope for the return of your money by writing or trying court action, you may at least be able to get hold of somebody, who may yet have something of their conscience left if you approach them personally. Guilt can be a powerful force.
Good luck !!
Lysander
Pawl Shanley registered Trans International Airways Ltd on 9 August 2006, with fellow Director Jane Shanley. This apparently trades from Building 9 at Kemble Airfield.
Interestingly, Robert Brown is also co-owner, but not a Director, of BCT Aviation Maintenance based at Cardiff Airport. This company is active. The other co-owner is a Mr R J Campbell. No idea if he is a relation of Maureen Campbell.
Further, Robert Brown started a new company on 27 April 2007 called Light Aircraft Leasing Ltd, based at his home, which is 116 Boughton Lane, Clowne, Chesterfield, Derbyshire, S43 4QF. Fellow Director is a Desmond White of Bristol.
He also registered a further company on 27 April 2007 called Cardiff Aviation Engineering Ltd. He is Director and Secretary, and a Christopher Dove of Surrey is also a Director.
Although I hold out little hope for the return of your money by writing or trying court action, you may at least be able to get hold of somebody, who may yet have something of their conscience left if you approach them personally. Guilt can be a powerful force.
Good luck !!
Lysander
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Small Claims Court sounds like the way to go.
Any claims below a certain amount (£5000?) can be made, effectively, risk free.
If you lost (highly unlikely if you put forward a clear, well-researched, claim) then there is no risk or cost to you.
It will only cost you a nominal amount to register the claim and any expenses involved if you wish to attend. Choose a County Court near to yourself so you don't have to travel too far. Also makes it more difficult for the defending party to attend the court.
Put your claim paperwork in as late as possible with respect to the closing date for submission - gives the defendant less time to submit his defence. The defendant must see anything you submit before he defends himself.
A very simple procedure - just requires a bit of effort.
You may not see your money again but you will get the pleasure of a County Court Judgement (CCJ) against him. This makes life more difficult for him in respect of future business credit, mortgages etc.
Myself and a couple of partners were taken to the Small Claims Court in respect of a PFA aircraft we sold some w****r. He flew it for 70 hour over 4 months then decided there was something wrong with it. Tried to sue us for just under £5k (£11.5k aircraft). We prepared well, stated the facts and the case got thrown out. The aircraft, needless to say, was in pretty good nick (for a 51-year-old aircraft) and had a brand new Permit when we sold it to him.
The Small Claims Court works very well and allows you to make a claim at no risk.
Whether you see your money again is another question.
Any claims below a certain amount (£5000?) can be made, effectively, risk free.
If you lost (highly unlikely if you put forward a clear, well-researched, claim) then there is no risk or cost to you.
It will only cost you a nominal amount to register the claim and any expenses involved if you wish to attend. Choose a County Court near to yourself so you don't have to travel too far. Also makes it more difficult for the defending party to attend the court.
Put your claim paperwork in as late as possible with respect to the closing date for submission - gives the defendant less time to submit his defence. The defendant must see anything you submit before he defends himself.
A very simple procedure - just requires a bit of effort.
You may not see your money again but you will get the pleasure of a County Court Judgement (CCJ) against him. This makes life more difficult for him in respect of future business credit, mortgages etc.
Myself and a couple of partners were taken to the Small Claims Court in respect of a PFA aircraft we sold some w****r. He flew it for 70 hour over 4 months then decided there was something wrong with it. Tried to sue us for just under £5k (£11.5k aircraft). We prepared well, stated the facts and the case got thrown out. The aircraft, needless to say, was in pretty good nick (for a 51-year-old aircraft) and had a brand new Permit when we sold it to him.
The Small Claims Court works very well and allows you to make a claim at no risk.
Whether you see your money again is another question.
Bellwether&cloudbuster
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Just one word of advice - I have seen this before.
Sometimes a company and a name can be two different things. I have seen "John Doe" trading as Bloggit tools, and then "John Doe" as a director of Bloggit tools Ltd. What happens is that "John Doe" waits for people to write cheques and if they leave out the Ltd he puts it into a personal "trade as" account. Usually the accounts are held at different banks so a bank doesn't get suspicious.
Anyway you could certainly start winding up proceedings on the dormant company and that might promote Companies House to do some further investigation - all of the directors will have their home addresses usually on companies house so you can write there, but as one friend says:
"Always write to the wives of directors - why, because wives probably know little of what their husbands are up to and they tend to get better results, and always feel obliged usually to reply.... "
A funny tip, but he said it worked...
Sometimes a company and a name can be two different things. I have seen "John Doe" trading as Bloggit tools, and then "John Doe" as a director of Bloggit tools Ltd. What happens is that "John Doe" waits for people to write cheques and if they leave out the Ltd he puts it into a personal "trade as" account. Usually the accounts are held at different banks so a bank doesn't get suspicious.
Anyway you could certainly start winding up proceedings on the dormant company and that might promote Companies House to do some further investigation - all of the directors will have their home addresses usually on companies house so you can write there, but as one friend says:
"Always write to the wives of directors - why, because wives probably know little of what their husbands are up to and they tend to get better results, and always feel obliged usually to reply.... "
A funny tip, but he said it worked...
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Has anyone actually managed to get money back through their credit card when a flying school goes bankrupt?
It's theoretically feasible but is the above advice only theoretical?
It's theoretically feasible but is the above advice only theoretical?
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I purchased a 10 hour block of AOC flight time from BCT at Kemble and have attempted to utilise them over a year or so and every time I called for a booking I was informed there was no aircraft or pilot availability. I only managed to use 1.4 hours of this time at the time of original block purchase.
When they (as they always do) emerge as another company, book 3 'new' hours, or, even better, their weekend minimum hours. Fly off your hours, leave it overnight to let the battery run down at a convenient airfield for you, and tell them where it is and that it isn't working anymore.
I suggest this or similar, because I couldn't countenance your going along and sawing the props off all their planes.
CG
I suggest this or similar, because I couldn't countenance your going along and sawing the props off all their planes.
CG
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Choose a County Court near to yourself so you don't have to travel too far. Also makes it more difficult for the defending party to attend the court.
By default you can have the case heard in a court nearest to your address, you don't have to choose the court at the outset. In fact you can now lodge a small claims court case online (Northampton handle this, but move to your local County Court for any hearing). Full details at www.moneyclaim.gov.uk
By default you can have the case heard in a court nearest to your address, you don't have to choose the court at the outset. In fact you can now lodge a small claims court case online (Northampton handle this, but move to your local County Court for any hearing). Full details at www.moneyclaim.gov.uk
BCT at Kemble
My partner rang the BCT number this afternoon and spoke to Pawl, he confirmed that the business is going down the pan, he also said that it would have been nice had they told him as he used to instruct for them. Despite this comment he did say that if they owe money (to my partner's company) he would be the point of contact. He is on their phone some of the time and may be able to help/point you in the right direction.
No promises though, and good luck.
No promises though, and good luck.
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According to the Kemble Airport website, BCT have changed to Trans-International Airways, a new charter flight service. When you try the website link (www.trans-internationalairways.com) it takes you to a redundant BCT link.