High Viz Jackets - Mandatory at GA Airfields?
niknak
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Although I am a big supporter of anything which helps you to see or be seen, I had to chuckle today when one of our ground maintenance crew relayed the following tale of an incident during a major surface markings repainting project at our place.
The Contractor had been briefed, signed a miriad of paperwork in triplicate and more risk assesments than you could shake a stick at had taken place. Along comes the repainting crew, who initially, had to remove the existing markings utilising a gas powered burner which put out the equivilant heat of four dragons, (or at least my wife in full rant mode
).
The operator of the burner assumes the position, lights up said device, but just before getting to work, also lights up a fag.
Cue Apron Supervisor, who rushes out to said Operator and tells him, "Oi! you can't smoke here mate! It's a high risk area!"
The Contractor had been briefed, signed a miriad of paperwork in triplicate and more risk assesments than you could shake a stick at had taken place. Along comes the repainting crew, who initially, had to remove the existing markings utilising a gas powered burner which put out the equivilant heat of four dragons, (or at least my wife in full rant mode
).The operator of the burner assumes the position, lights up said device, but just before getting to work, also lights up a fag.
Cue Apron Supervisor, who rushes out to said Operator and tells him, "Oi! you can't smoke here mate! It's a high risk area!"
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See how they like it if you wore this!
I must admit that I've only just discovered this thread and am totally amazed by the morons that it has attracted. Not the airport managers, as previously mentioned, but very much the minority of the GA community.
If an aerodrome is operated licensed, the aerodrome licence holder/operator is required, by the CAA, to have a Safety Management System (SMS) in place to insofar as practicable ensure safety on the aerodrome. Part of this SMS is having a risk assessment process to identify hazards and mitigate against them. In respect of one particular risk, ie collision of aircraft/vehicles and pedestrians, the wearing of hi viz clothing has proved to be a significant mitigating measure to prevent collisions. Hence the reason why it is required.
If an aerodrome is operated unlicensed, the CAA does not regulate it, but the Health & Safety Executive does. If the operator is going to provide a service to permit flying he/she must identify risks and mitigate them. Again hi viz is recognised as an accepted mitigating measure.
Take the case of Captain Moron, "I don't need a high viz jacket", gets hit by a vehicle or aircraft when airside. Next stop "Claims R us", or similar to sue the arse off the aerodrome operator. If licensed the operator gets roasted by the CAA & HSE, if unlicensed possibly just HSE, before any civil action is happens.
Give the aerodrome operators credit, if you enjoy flying act responsibly and wear hi viz, if not try another hobby to avoid being a liability to yourself and others.
If an aerodrome is operated licensed, the aerodrome licence holder/operator is required, by the CAA, to have a Safety Management System (SMS) in place to insofar as practicable ensure safety on the aerodrome. Part of this SMS is having a risk assessment process to identify hazards and mitigate against them. In respect of one particular risk, ie collision of aircraft/vehicles and pedestrians, the wearing of hi viz clothing has proved to be a significant mitigating measure to prevent collisions. Hence the reason why it is required.
If an aerodrome is operated unlicensed, the CAA does not regulate it, but the Health & Safety Executive does. If the operator is going to provide a service to permit flying he/she must identify risks and mitigate them. Again hi viz is recognised as an accepted mitigating measure.
Take the case of Captain Moron, "I don't need a high viz jacket", gets hit by a vehicle or aircraft when airside. Next stop "Claims R us", or similar to sue the arse off the aerodrome operator. If licensed the operator gets roasted by the CAA & HSE, if unlicensed possibly just HSE, before any civil action is happens.
Give the aerodrome operators credit, if you enjoy flying act responsibly and wear hi viz, if not try another hobby to avoid being a liability to yourself and others.
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Give the aerodrome operators credit, if you enjoy flying act responsibly and wear hi viz, if not try another hobby to avoid being a liability to yourself and others.
Thanks, if I thought I would run into you I would avoid flying to that location.
I still feel that if I can fly an airplane in some of the worse sh.t holes on earth where getting shot down is a daily risk I have the IQ to walk across a ramp at some airport in England that might have five aircraft movements a day.
if not try another hobby to avoid being a liability to yourself and others.
Flying has been my occupation for many years, it is not my hobby.
Signed:
Captain moron.
Thanks, if I thought I would run into you I would avoid flying to that location.
I still feel that if I can fly an airplane in some of the worse sh.t holes on earth where getting shot down is a daily risk I have the IQ to walk across a ramp at some airport in England that might have five aircraft movements a day.
if not try another hobby to avoid being a liability to yourself and others.
Flying has been my occupation for many years, it is not my hobby.
Signed:
Captain moron.
Last edited by Chuck Ellsworth; 10th Jan 2008 at 00:04.
A little less conversation,
a little more aviation...
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Originally Posted by TCAS FAN
(Utter, utter, utter bolleaux)
Try looking out of the bleedin' window, you myopic muppet, rather than insisting everyone else should equip themselves with pointless friffery and whistles to make up for your clearly lamentable lack of situational awareness, on the ground, in the air, and at the keyboard.
PS - Happy New Year, regards to the family.
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Ignorance can be cured through education.
The stupidity one encounters on airports surrounding the hi vis vests is genetic, therefore it is useless trying to argue with them.
The stupidity one encounters on airports surrounding the hi vis vests is genetic, therefore it is useless trying to argue with them.
A little less conversation,
a little more aviation...
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Originally Posted by Chuck Ellsworth
Ignorance can be cured through education.
The stupidity one encounters on airports surrounding the hi vis vests is genetic, therefore it is useless trying to argue with them.
The stupidity one encounters on airports surrounding the hi vis vests is genetic, therefore it is useless trying to argue with them.
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The attitude shown by TCAS FAN is typical of the numptys who think that all thia H&S bull will keep them safe, the HI VIS is not a magic force field that wards of large trucks ! it is only as good as the guy driving the truck.
As I said in another post The very first time I put on a HI VIS I was very nearly killed by a van driver on an empty ramp.
Some seem to see these things as some sort of aviation status symbol, but all they are is a safety tool and just as I would not try to undo a screw with a hammer I dont see the need for the Hi VIS on a GA ramp on a normal day.
I regret to say that TACS FAN is one who as been drinking at the H&S font and like all who drink too much is not capable of applying logic.
As I said in another post The very first time I put on a HI VIS I was very nearly killed by a van driver on an empty ramp.
Some seem to see these things as some sort of aviation status symbol, but all they are is a safety tool and just as I would not try to undo a screw with a hammer I dont see the need for the Hi VIS on a GA ramp on a normal day.
I regret to say that TACS FAN is one who as been drinking at the H&S font and like all who drink too much is not capable of applying logic.
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Try looking out of the bleedin' window, you myopic muppet, rather than insisting everyone else should equip themselves with pointless friffery and whistles to make up for your clearly lamentable lack of situational awareness, on the ground, in the air, and at the keyboard.
Hi Chuck ....
Crossing threads to respond to your question.
I am in the Construction Industry .. and made some comments about it back in post #29 (I think) of the other thread.
DGG
Crossing threads to respond to your question.
I am in the Construction Industry .. and made some comments about it back in post #29 (I think) of the other thread.
DGG
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There I am about to start the engine and one of the owners of the aerodrome walking across the "ramp" and NOT wearing a High Viz! I start up and the A/G is (politely) informing a visiting aircraft "In future would you please wear a High Viz when walking to/from your aircraft".
Which is what I keep banging on about with appropriateness and following a properly executed risk assesment.
I doubt you'd have spotted him out of the VCR at Heathrow with all the other distractions so he needs highlighting THERE.
I doubt you'd have spotted him out of the VCR at Heathrow with all the other distractions so he needs highlighting THERE.
Last edited by Dave Gittins; 10th Jan 2008 at 13:36. Reason: Carp Spelling
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I found this gem on the locked thread and believe it needs commenting on.
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I can't help recalling from my Human Performance studies that an anti-authority, anti-discipline, anti-rule attitude is not consistent with safe flying.
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This is just another example of the moron nanny state mindset where using slogans that on the surface look like they are factual are lapped up by the sheep in society.
When someone thinks you have a bad attitude that chestnut is trotted out and used as a word weapon to make it seem you are in some way deranged because you won't meekly kiss some morons ass who couldn't find his own ass with a set of moose antlers.
It is just another attack exactly like calling someone " Racist " " bigot " " Homophobic " and all those social engineering slogans that are trotted out to silence those who the lunatic fringe can't control any other way.
I bet some would see me as anti authority and anti discipline........which means I must be an unsafe pilot.
Should I quit flying before I hurt myself??
Hey gang ,, hows that for a morning rant?
-------------------------------------------------------
I can't help recalling from my Human Performance studies that an anti-authority, anti-discipline, anti-rule attitude is not consistent with safe flying.
---------------------------------------------------------
This is just another example of the moron nanny state mindset where using slogans that on the surface look like they are factual are lapped up by the sheep in society.
When someone thinks you have a bad attitude that chestnut is trotted out and used as a word weapon to make it seem you are in some way deranged because you won't meekly kiss some morons ass who couldn't find his own ass with a set of moose antlers.
It is just another attack exactly like calling someone " Racist " " bigot " " Homophobic " and all those social engineering slogans that are trotted out to silence those who the lunatic fringe can't control any other way.
I bet some would see me as anti authority and anti discipline........which means I must be an unsafe pilot.
Should I quit flying before I hurt myself??
Hey gang ,, hows that for a morning rant?
"..bet some would see me as anti authority and anti discipline........which means I must be an unsafe pilot. "
Isn't that what the FAA claimed about Bob Hoover ???
Isn't that what the FAA claimed about Bob Hoover ???
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I find it interesting to compare what's happening in the GA world compared to the world outside the airfield fence.
Just for the record, the airfield I fly from has now started issuing fines for not wearing hi-viz airside. Even on the little, out-of-the-way apron where our club is based. Despite the fact that, as far as I know, we have a perfect safety record there.
Meanwhile, in the rest of the world, the following things are happening:
Various countries are currently experimenting with making large squares, where cars and pedestrians mix, less 'safe', by removing all traffic lights, traffic signs, road surface paintings and so forth, and even by repaving the whole square with one uniform color tile, wall to wall, with no pedestrian walkways or anything. The reasoning behind this? It makes the situation far more confusing. As a result, cars slow down, pedestrians maintain a better lookout and, surprise, surprise, LESS accidents happen. And the accidents that do happen are less serious due to the slower speeds involved. Several examples, including a (small) town in Holland who decided to do away with all the (27 or so) road signs in the whole town. The only problem they have now is that sometimes people park their car at an inconvenient spot, blocking traffic at a narrow point.
Equally, there was an article in the Dutch newspaper Volkskrant this morning. (I tried to find it online, but it isn't there yet and it would be in Dutch anyway.) It claims that the nanny society we have leads to people missing out on essential bits of their education/upbringing. Particularly children are kept away from any negative experience, be it physical (getting scratched, bumped, bruised, whatever), emotional (losing a game or discussion, getting told off for instance) or medical (getting sick from playing in a sandbox). This leads to less self-supporting, less safety-conscious and less self-conscious adults who, when faced with real-world problems or hazards, cause chaos, accidents, injuries etc. Apparently in Germany (so the article claims), insurance companies have now started building *insecure* playgrounds (yes you read that correctly) next to kindergartens, primary schools etc., on the assumption that this will raise those children in a more safety conscious manner, leading to lower insurance claims later in life.
I'm all for hi-viz when they have proven to be beneficial to safety. I have one of those in my car and another one in my flightbag for the occasion that I feel it's needed. When we have one of those "do"s at the club where we have lots of guests, including children about, hi-viz (with nametags) makes sense to distinguish pilots and staff from guests (and guests are only allowed airside when accompanied). I don't mind hi-viz, goggles, hard hats, ear defenders, boots and gloves at construction sites: I carry all of this in my DIY case in case I feel the need for it. But I protest against the mindless application of a rule "hi-viz at all times". In the end, I feel it makes us all less safe.
Just for the record, the airfield I fly from has now started issuing fines for not wearing hi-viz airside. Even on the little, out-of-the-way apron where our club is based. Despite the fact that, as far as I know, we have a perfect safety record there.
Meanwhile, in the rest of the world, the following things are happening:
Various countries are currently experimenting with making large squares, where cars and pedestrians mix, less 'safe', by removing all traffic lights, traffic signs, road surface paintings and so forth, and even by repaving the whole square with one uniform color tile, wall to wall, with no pedestrian walkways or anything. The reasoning behind this? It makes the situation far more confusing. As a result, cars slow down, pedestrians maintain a better lookout and, surprise, surprise, LESS accidents happen. And the accidents that do happen are less serious due to the slower speeds involved. Several examples, including a (small) town in Holland who decided to do away with all the (27 or so) road signs in the whole town. The only problem they have now is that sometimes people park their car at an inconvenient spot, blocking traffic at a narrow point.
Equally, there was an article in the Dutch newspaper Volkskrant this morning. (I tried to find it online, but it isn't there yet and it would be in Dutch anyway.) It claims that the nanny society we have leads to people missing out on essential bits of their education/upbringing. Particularly children are kept away from any negative experience, be it physical (getting scratched, bumped, bruised, whatever), emotional (losing a game or discussion, getting told off for instance) or medical (getting sick from playing in a sandbox). This leads to less self-supporting, less safety-conscious and less self-conscious adults who, when faced with real-world problems or hazards, cause chaos, accidents, injuries etc. Apparently in Germany (so the article claims), insurance companies have now started building *insecure* playgrounds (yes you read that correctly) next to kindergartens, primary schools etc., on the assumption that this will raise those children in a more safety conscious manner, leading to lower insurance claims later in life.
I'm all for hi-viz when they have proven to be beneficial to safety. I have one of those in my car and another one in my flightbag for the occasion that I feel it's needed. When we have one of those "do"s at the club where we have lots of guests, including children about, hi-viz (with nametags) makes sense to distinguish pilots and staff from guests (and guests are only allowed airside when accompanied). I don't mind hi-viz, goggles, hard hats, ear defenders, boots and gloves at construction sites: I carry all of this in my DIY case in case I feel the need for it. But I protest against the mindless application of a rule "hi-viz at all times". In the end, I feel it makes us all less safe.
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TCAS FAN has a wonderful logical approach.
Since the introduction of hi-viz jackets there has been no single instance, at my local airfield anyway, of people in collision with aeroplanes. The same seems to be generally true elsewhere. Thus the hi-viz is 'a significant mitigating measure' to be applied everywhere.
It makes me tremble to think of the years during which we all ran such a terrible risk walking about airfields before the H&SE, in their wisdom, provided guidance,assistance and a 'risk assessment' procedure which has given us our saviour- the yellow jacket.
It is wonderful to think of all the lives it has saved as we walk over the grass parking area. I now await the technical explanation as to how it enhances my ability to see rotating prop blades without in any way, of course, doubting that it does.
Since the introduction of hi-viz jackets there has been no single instance, at my local airfield anyway, of people in collision with aeroplanes. The same seems to be generally true elsewhere. Thus the hi-viz is 'a significant mitigating measure' to be applied everywhere.
It makes me tremble to think of the years during which we all ran such a terrible risk walking about airfields before the H&SE, in their wisdom, provided guidance,assistance and a 'risk assessment' procedure which has given us our saviour- the yellow jacket.
It is wonderful to think of all the lives it has saved as we walk over the grass parking area. I now await the technical explanation as to how it enhances my ability to see rotating prop blades without in any way, of course, doubting that it does.
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I was vectored on to this from another Thread, http://www.grumpyoldsod.com/flashman.asp
Some of it seems most apposite to this Thread.
GBZ (fully paid member of the Guild of Grumpyoldsods)
Some of it seems most apposite to this Thread.
GBZ (fully paid member of the Guild of Grumpyoldsods)
