High Viz Jackets - Mandatory at GA Airfields?
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Hi-Vis jackets mandatory at GA airfields
I'm a safety professional, a chartered engineer and a very active pilot, instructor and examiner. Yes, Hi-Vis workwear has its place and function in the mitigation of risk --- No; it is neither neccessary nor appropriate for aircrew/PPL's at most GA aerodromes especially those like Nottingham. I fly there and know it well.
The jobsworth that set this hare running obviously had no concept of HAZID/HAZOP studies let alone basic good sense. What are the hazards on a GA field and who is at risk? For a large fee I will gladly undertake the work for any airfield operator and/or the CAA/HSE. (I was previously an Inspecting Officer of Railways enforcing safety legislation and carrying out accident investigations).
The history to the introduction of Hi-Vis workwear in the UK is found in the railway industry in the late 1960's where the on-track workforce gangs were reliant upon a lookout man to sound a warning of approaching trains. The introduction of high speed diesel and electric traction brought about an increasing fatality list every year when warnings were given too late for men to reach a place of safety. With hi-vis vests worn by trackmen loco drivers could see the workers sooner and sound the loco horn to "blow the men off the track". Motorway workers used the same safety principles as railwaymen and they adopted the Hi-Vis vest to make them more conspicuous to motorists travelling at high speed; thereby allowing the driver(s) to take avoiding action and/or sound the horn to attract the worker's attention so that he could jump for his life.
Now, until light aircraft have a horn that we can sound, a pilot seeing an inattentive person working / or dozing about on the airfield he/she cannot give a reasonable warning and in many cases that have resulted in an accident the pilot could not have taken any mitigating action, e.g. stopped the prop, swerved away or stopped the aircraft.
On most smaller GA airfields there is virtually no vehicular movement; and where there is the only vehilce that should be moving at more than 10~15 mile/h will be the emergency tender on a shout, with blues and twos going. The hazard is negligible and mitigation even at a couple of quid a vest is not cost effective. It is a sticking plaster mentality. Train people to recognise that aircraft are potentially dangerous -- oh! don't we already do that? Ensure drivers who are permitted on the apron/taxyways are rained to avoid aircraft and sound a warning to people who should know better than to be there -- oh! the driver couldn't see you without a Hi-Vi, how close do you have to get at 10 mile/h before you see someone in broad daylight? Too dark, misty? OK carry a lit torch if you must be out there, the HI-VI without reflective panels won't be any good, with reflective panels it still doesn't help in fog; why are you walking on the airfield in fog? Idiot!
Sorry for the rant. Hope it enlightened, entertained and made it plain that the whole saga is a sorry state of affairs. I have a nice orange fleece that I shall wear in winter and a similar polo shirt for summer wear. I also have a natty, railway issue, flame retardent one piece overall that, if I want to make myself stand out when stepping down from a Duchess or an Auster, I shall wear as a flying overall. (What was that about a small puncture wound made with a sharp pointed instrument?)
Away with the safety Gestapo! Bring back a bit of good horse sense and really make the world of aviation safer.
Happy landings
The jobsworth that set this hare running obviously had no concept of HAZID/HAZOP studies let alone basic good sense. What are the hazards on a GA field and who is at risk? For a large fee I will gladly undertake the work for any airfield operator and/or the CAA/HSE. (I was previously an Inspecting Officer of Railways enforcing safety legislation and carrying out accident investigations).
The history to the introduction of Hi-Vis workwear in the UK is found in the railway industry in the late 1960's where the on-track workforce gangs were reliant upon a lookout man to sound a warning of approaching trains. The introduction of high speed diesel and electric traction brought about an increasing fatality list every year when warnings were given too late for men to reach a place of safety. With hi-vis vests worn by trackmen loco drivers could see the workers sooner and sound the loco horn to "blow the men off the track". Motorway workers used the same safety principles as railwaymen and they adopted the Hi-Vis vest to make them more conspicuous to motorists travelling at high speed; thereby allowing the driver(s) to take avoiding action and/or sound the horn to attract the worker's attention so that he could jump for his life.
Now, until light aircraft have a horn that we can sound, a pilot seeing an inattentive person working / or dozing about on the airfield he/she cannot give a reasonable warning and in many cases that have resulted in an accident the pilot could not have taken any mitigating action, e.g. stopped the prop, swerved away or stopped the aircraft.
On most smaller GA airfields there is virtually no vehicular movement; and where there is the only vehilce that should be moving at more than 10~15 mile/h will be the emergency tender on a shout, with blues and twos going. The hazard is negligible and mitigation even at a couple of quid a vest is not cost effective. It is a sticking plaster mentality. Train people to recognise that aircraft are potentially dangerous -- oh! don't we already do that? Ensure drivers who are permitted on the apron/taxyways are rained to avoid aircraft and sound a warning to people who should know better than to be there -- oh! the driver couldn't see you without a Hi-Vi, how close do you have to get at 10 mile/h before you see someone in broad daylight? Too dark, misty? OK carry a lit torch if you must be out there, the HI-VI without reflective panels won't be any good, with reflective panels it still doesn't help in fog; why are you walking on the airfield in fog? Idiot!
Sorry for the rant. Hope it enlightened, entertained and made it plain that the whole saga is a sorry state of affairs. I have a nice orange fleece that I shall wear in winter and a similar polo shirt for summer wear. I also have a natty, railway issue, flame retardent one piece overall that, if I want to make myself stand out when stepping down from a Duchess or an Auster, I shall wear as a flying overall. (What was that about a small puncture wound made with a sharp pointed instrument?)
Away with the safety Gestapo! Bring back a bit of good horse sense and really make the world of aviation safer.
Happy landings
I only know of one person run over by an aircraft. A maintenance engineer disconnecting a ground power unit had the nose gear rolled over him by a tug crew who didn't see him before pushing back. A bright yellow high vis might just have saved him.
The idea that high vis are for pilots to see ground personnel is really a red herring. The noise an aircraft makes should be sufficient to get anyone to move.
Most of the ramp safety stuff comes out of a report into ramp safety which followed the death of a pilot at a UK airport. He was crushed by a tug, had his legs amputated and subsequently died. I believe that the nature of this accident was such that a high vis wouldn't have helped.
Try working on an active ramp, APU's, various engines aircraft and vehicles running. Ear defenders on. Blow your horn all you want baggage truck driver
nobody is going to hear you. Lots of us work on airfields in the fog because it's our job, we are not idiots for being there.
Is this all relevent to a daylight GA airfield probably not, is it relevent to the airfields insurer, in the event of a claim what do you think???????
In todays arse covering environment I suspect they are here to stay. In the event that you are flattened by a fuel truck while adjusting your shades minus hi vis I reckon the insurers will try to say that it is partially your fault for ignoring published safety recommendations.
I wonder if hi vis is being written into some airfield insurance policies.
The idea that high vis are for pilots to see ground personnel is really a red herring. The noise an aircraft makes should be sufficient to get anyone to move.
Most of the ramp safety stuff comes out of a report into ramp safety which followed the death of a pilot at a UK airport. He was crushed by a tug, had his legs amputated and subsequently died. I believe that the nature of this accident was such that a high vis wouldn't have helped.
Try working on an active ramp, APU's, various engines aircraft and vehicles running. Ear defenders on. Blow your horn all you want baggage truck driver
nobody is going to hear you. Lots of us work on airfields in the fog because it's our job, we are not idiots for being there.
Is this all relevent to a daylight GA airfield probably not, is it relevent to the airfields insurer, in the event of a claim what do you think???????
In todays arse covering environment I suspect they are here to stay. In the event that you are flattened by a fuel truck while adjusting your shades minus hi vis I reckon the insurers will try to say that it is partially your fault for ignoring published safety recommendations.
I wonder if hi vis is being written into some airfield insurance policies.
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Years ago I flew with a skipper who did as he pleased. After we'd walked across the Newcastle apron to our aircraft, a Land Rover came to a screaching halt right next to us. The subsequent conversation went along the lines of this:
Bloke in Land Rover: "The SATCO said you've got to wear your hi-vis tabard."
Skipper: "How does he know I wasn't wearing it?"
Bloke in Land Rover: "Because he saw you."
Skipper: "If he saw me then what's the point of wearing a hi-vis tabard?"
Bloke in Land Rover: "I'm just telling you what he said."
Skipper: "In that case, tell him I said he's a c*nt."
Bloke in Land Rover: "I can't tell him that!"
Skipper: "GoodBye."
End of story.
Bloke in Land Rover: "The SATCO said you've got to wear your hi-vis tabard."
Skipper: "How does he know I wasn't wearing it?"
Bloke in Land Rover: "Because he saw you."
Skipper: "If he saw me then what's the point of wearing a hi-vis tabard?"
Bloke in Land Rover: "I'm just telling you what he said."
Skipper: "In that case, tell him I said he's a c*nt."
Bloke in Land Rover: "I can't tell him that!"
Skipper: "GoodBye."
End of story.
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HI-Vis
"Erictheferret" is quite right; a busy ramp is a place where all mitigation actions to known hazards is essential. People have to be there in all weathers and operational conditions, that is a given and no they are not idiots - for vast majority far from it. The idiot is the GA pilot who cannot be going to / from an aircraft to fly (weathered out), is not at work and has not thought to speak to the aerodrome operator to ensure that his walk accross an active area can be conducted safely, better get a ride in the "crash truck" if its that quiet and the ground staff can be found.
Please let common sense prevail, Hi-Vi when a serious risk analysis indicates that there is a definite benefit, not just as "fashion accessory" to be seen at a "wannabe commercial"
flying site.
Happy landings
Austerpilot
Please let common sense prevail, Hi-Vi when a serious risk analysis indicates that there is a definite benefit, not just as "fashion accessory" to be seen at a "wannabe commercial"
flying site.Happy landings
Austerpilot
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Funny how no one wants to wear a high visibility jacket but they just love wearing wings. I wonder if there would be this much comment if they were forced to wear 4 gold rings.
You could legislate that only people who do not feel that their ego and image are challenged by wearing high visibillity jackest should wear them. That you only need to wear them when the driver in a vehicle or aircarft approaching them has sub standard eye sight or is wearing very dark sunglasses. Or you only need to wear then when you are in shadow or in a postion that some one else may not see you in. You could legislate that you only need wear them when a certain amount of personel are on the airfield and they have all signed a statement saying they will always be alert and drive slowly at all times giving due consideration to everything all around them. You could legislate that the jackets only need to be worn when visibillity is reduced or at dusk and at night. You could legislate that aircrew need only wear them when vehicles are reversing back towards their aircraft.
Or of course you could just take the more obvious logical step of saying that they need to be worn all the time on a licensed airfield.
I would add that there should be a statement printed on each jacket explaining that the individual is a very important pilot and really should be exempt from any such legislation as the size of his head alone should allow anyone to see him clearly from miles around.
You could legislate that only people who do not feel that their ego and image are challenged by wearing high visibillity jackest should wear them. That you only need to wear them when the driver in a vehicle or aircarft approaching them has sub standard eye sight or is wearing very dark sunglasses. Or you only need to wear then when you are in shadow or in a postion that some one else may not see you in. You could legislate that you only need wear them when a certain amount of personel are on the airfield and they have all signed a statement saying they will always be alert and drive slowly at all times giving due consideration to everything all around them. You could legislate that the jackets only need to be worn when visibillity is reduced or at dusk and at night. You could legislate that aircrew need only wear them when vehicles are reversing back towards their aircraft.
Or of course you could just take the more obvious logical step of saying that they need to be worn all the time on a licensed airfield.
I would add that there should be a statement printed on each jacket explaining that the individual is a very important pilot and really should be exempt from any such legislation as the size of his head alone should allow anyone to see him clearly from miles around.
rondon, blanket approaches to safety are a very poor alternative to making people aware of the risks involved in moving around a potentially hazardous area. I work in an industry where PPE (Personal Protective Equipment) is taken very seriously indeed so please believe me when I say that I am not dismissing the HiViz jackets out of hand. I simply feel that they are inappropriate for the GA environment so why should people have yet another rule imposed upon them plus have the discomfort of wearing flammable plastic jackets when there is absolutley no evidence that any GA ground accidents would have been prevented by their use. Never mind, the management must be right, lets all wear them everytime we step airside.........
Red On, Green On
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I shall shortly be going to the Patent Office to submit a description and drawings for my new aviation safety device - strobolettes. Essentially these are flashing LEDs in a gold colour, fashioned in strips about 10 mm wide. It's suggested that PPLs wear one strip on each shoulder. FOs may like to wear two strips, SFOs three and Captains four.
Orders by PM, please.
Orders by PM, please.
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Low and Slow, of course i forgot--lets get someone killed first then we can tell his family it wont happen again because we will propose everyone wears high vis jackets.
The aim is to make personel more conspicable and thus safer and try and prevent accidents before they happen.
One of the most often used phrases, 'Sorry I did not see you'. Think about it!
Education protects the wise, blanket regulation protects all
ASK CAPTAIN JON
The aim is to make personel more conspicable and thus safer and try and prevent accidents before they happen.
One of the most often used phrases, 'Sorry I did not see you'. Think about it!
Education protects the wise, blanket regulation protects all
ASK CAPTAIN JON
Red On, Green On
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Posters might care to know that some European countries mandate the carrying of hi-viz vests in private cars in the event of a breakdown. The vests can be bought for €2 in Spanish markets.
Not a lot to pay, really.
Not a lot to pay, really.
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The aim is to make personel more conspicable and thus safer and try and prevent accidents before they happen.
The point is, Shirley, that if you make something "normal" it's no longer conspicuous? It's alleged that the criminal classes sometimes wear hvv when going about their business because it makes them look as though they ought to be there.
I go sailing. If I'm sailing at night I wear oilskins with reflective strips, a lifejacket with a light and whistle while on deck, and if I'm outside the cockpit I wear a harness clipped on to a jackstay. Would I be safer wearing them all when going for a swim off the side whilst anchored in Turkey?
Moderate your behaviour according to the risk. Baggage trucks hurtling out of the gloomy catacombs at LHR or LGW are a danger that merits hvv. The walk from your aircraft at Kemble is not.
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Education protects the wise, blanket regulation protects all
Someone should make mats for the bottom of urnals with this bit of wisdom printed on it so everyone can read it and remember just how many sheep there are in society.
Someone should make mats for the bottom of urnals with this bit of wisdom printed on it so everyone can read it and remember just how many sheep there are in society.
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Get a FLYER jacket and let them know what you think, "I'm Wearing this to Cover Someone Else's @rse!"
My brother is a tradesman and they're beset by H&S issues, some quite silly. The above high-viz is very popular on the local building site.
My brother is a tradesman and they're beset by H&S issues, some quite silly. The above high-viz is very popular on the local building site.
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As Socal says, not generally required in the litigious USA. The threat of lawsuit seems to inspire reasonably cost effective risk management. In the UK there are a lot of things done due to some individual's risk assessment or view on duty of care.
Hi Viz kit is great for blending into the background. Several years ago the fathers for justice guys 'snuck' onto the walls of Buckingham Palace by 'hiding' in Hi Viz jackets!
At work we use them all of the time - in dark tight yards moving 300-400 lories in the course of the night, in warehouses with 50 guys running around on pallet trucks, in our safety kit in cars (hi viz, triangle, bulbs, etc) for road side breakdown).
On an airfield that doesn't allow cars airside, has one fuel truck, and one fire truck. The odds of being run down are much much lower than in the parking lot opposite the Cafe!
Hi Viz kit is great for blending into the background. Several years ago the fathers for justice guys 'snuck' onto the walls of Buckingham Palace by 'hiding' in Hi Viz jackets!
At work we use them all of the time - in dark tight yards moving 300-400 lories in the course of the night, in warehouses with 50 guys running around on pallet trucks, in our safety kit in cars (hi viz, triangle, bulbs, etc) for road side breakdown).
On an airfield that doesn't allow cars airside, has one fuel truck, and one fire truck. The odds of being run down are much much lower than in the parking lot opposite the Cafe!
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Where is this utter health and safety rubbish going to end?
What happened to being responisble for yourself and your own actions?
There seems to be quite often an inverse relationship to the size of the airfield and the list of silly regulations that bombard you. Seems to happen whenever an airfield adds 'International' to its title!!
Flew into XYZ airfield on Monday(isolated GA a/f but never the less a super place to go) only to be collared walking back to my aeroplane to be told "it wasnt safe to walk out without a hi viz tabbard" .I required one but not my passenger!! For gawds sake!!! Despite being polite to the individual concerned despite his rather zealous approach I departed wondering if I would bother to visit again.
Now dont get me wrong, there is a time and a place for appropiate clothing
- a former life spent much time on the ramp and a dirty dark night was the time to wear one.The sun cracking the flags may not be.
- I have flown into some of the busiest airports in the world and all seemed to manage without them in the past
- unfortunately my employer now requires me to wear one on the ramp which I despise but is contractual. Walking across an empty ramp in close to 40 degrees on the other side of the world however my common sense takes over.
- I will not wear one on a GA airfield in my free time. I suggest you all do the same and stand up to this euro pinko claptrap. It will be hard hats and steel toecaps next.
Men or mice???!!!
What happened to being responisble for yourself and your own actions?
There seems to be quite often an inverse relationship to the size of the airfield and the list of silly regulations that bombard you. Seems to happen whenever an airfield adds 'International' to its title!!
Flew into XYZ airfield on Monday(isolated GA a/f but never the less a super place to go) only to be collared walking back to my aeroplane to be told "it wasnt safe to walk out without a hi viz tabbard" .I required one but not my passenger!! For gawds sake!!! Despite being polite to the individual concerned despite his rather zealous approach I departed wondering if I would bother to visit again.
Now dont get me wrong, there is a time and a place for appropiate clothing
- a former life spent much time on the ramp and a dirty dark night was the time to wear one.The sun cracking the flags may not be.
- I have flown into some of the busiest airports in the world and all seemed to manage without them in the past
- unfortunately my employer now requires me to wear one on the ramp which I despise but is contractual. Walking across an empty ramp in close to 40 degrees on the other side of the world however my common sense takes over.
- I will not wear one on a GA airfield in my free time. I suggest you all do the same and stand up to this euro pinko claptrap. It will be hard hats and steel toecaps next.
Men or mice???!!!
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Airoprts are becoming the most customer unfriendly aggrivating places in society to have to go to.
Is there something about airports that make them a magnet for morons to run?
Is there something about airports that make them a magnet for morons to run?
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not Biggles on Hi Viz jackets says.....
So, Nottingham are the latest to get aviators into the Daffodil Club! Of course it makes sense to be visible - although when I started in this aviation world 'tricycle undercarriages' were a novelty and the viz from a Tiger Moth was simply dreadful (it still is) - and we managed without them in those days. Perhaps the real agenda is that we make better targets - for fines, abuse, breaches of by laws and a load of other hysterical HSE poo.
