Solo Trip to France
The Original Whirly
Thread Starter
Join Date: Feb 1999
Location: Belper, Derbyshire, UK
Posts: 4,326
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
In case it wasn't obvious, I've learned many, many things from this trip. To mention but a few...
1) ALWAYS Read the NOTAMS. I usually do, actually. The problem occurs when I don't have internet access, ie away from home, and can't easily get them at the airfield...all too frequent, I find. I then tend to rely on what people tell me, and that's not always correct...as we found out. Though I have to say, everyone was so laid back and welcoming at Granville, I'd never have known we shouldn't be there! But thanks, 2D. I have suitably wrapped my own knuckles...and I'm being serious now!
2) Learn French. I would have done, if I'd known I was going to be doing this solo. It would have helped enormously. But to try to do it at about 24 hours notice would only have increased the workload, and I decided not to.
3) Always expect to have to route to published points, VRPs etc, even if everyone says you won't even to, even though it's France and usually informal. It might happen.
4) Realise that someone on PPRuNe will ALWAYS point out where you could have done better, and someone else will get upset about them doing that, and someone else.... What I mean is, maybe enough said on all those points...but thanks for the support, ShyTorque and others.
BTW, I should point out that if anyone DOES want to flame me, for any reason, they should do it privately, or this whole thread will be deleted. This is not because I'm that sensitive - I've been on PPRuNe too long for that. It's because this thread involves other people, who may not even know it's here, and it's not fair on them. I posted this as a fun account, which people might like to read. I'm happy for it to become anything else useful. But if it turns nasty, it goes, immediately!!!
aaron,
Forgot to say, I think Sue does give riding lessons, but I\'m not certain. Check on www.nearlyheaven.com, or email her at [email protected].
1) ALWAYS Read the NOTAMS. I usually do, actually. The problem occurs when I don't have internet access, ie away from home, and can't easily get them at the airfield...all too frequent, I find. I then tend to rely on what people tell me, and that's not always correct...as we found out. Though I have to say, everyone was so laid back and welcoming at Granville, I'd never have known we shouldn't be there! But thanks, 2D. I have suitably wrapped my own knuckles...and I'm being serious now!
2) Learn French. I would have done, if I'd known I was going to be doing this solo. It would have helped enormously. But to try to do it at about 24 hours notice would only have increased the workload, and I decided not to.
3) Always expect to have to route to published points, VRPs etc, even if everyone says you won't even to, even though it's France and usually informal. It might happen.
4) Realise that someone on PPRuNe will ALWAYS point out where you could have done better, and someone else will get upset about them doing that, and someone else.... What I mean is, maybe enough said on all those points...but thanks for the support, ShyTorque and others.
BTW, I should point out that if anyone DOES want to flame me, for any reason, they should do it privately, or this whole thread will be deleted. This is not because I'm that sensitive - I've been on PPRuNe too long for that. It's because this thread involves other people, who may not even know it's here, and it's not fair on them. I posted this as a fun account, which people might like to read. I'm happy for it to become anything else useful. But if it turns nasty, it goes, immediately!!!
aaron,
Forgot to say, I think Sue does give riding lessons, but I\'m not certain. Check on www.nearlyheaven.com, or email her at [email protected].
Join Date: Feb 2001
Location: Belgium
Posts: 265
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
About the French (language that is), we should remember that whilst learning the various pilot calls (vent arriere etc.) is commendable, it is only half the problem as one still has to understand the ATC calls addressed in that language.
I flew into le Tooks on Tuesday (sorry I missed you Whirly
), and for some brief moments the R/T was warming up, with the controller getting shorter and faster with his transmissions. Also, one UK reg was doing his best to use French for the cirucit calls, when it was more than obvious that the controller's English was better than the pilot's French, which had the adverse effect of adding to the R/T loading.
I live and use French daily, and although I understand the ATC calls made in French, I still use English when speaking to ATC. I've never had a problem in France with French controllers not using reasonable English - but maybe that's because I haven't flown to the places Whirly went to.
A good read Whirly, with some lessons learned for everyone, I'm sure. And, yes, the vis on Tuesday at le Tooks was fantastic - as I approached the field from 10nm East, at 2000ft, I could see right across the Channel to the white cliffs and a bit beyond - lovely sight
GB
I flew into le Tooks on Tuesday (sorry I missed you Whirly
), and for some brief moments the R/T was warming up, with the controller getting shorter and faster with his transmissions. Also, one UK reg was doing his best to use French for the cirucit calls, when it was more than obvious that the controller's English was better than the pilot's French, which had the adverse effect of adding to the R/T loading. I live and use French daily, and although I understand the ATC calls made in French, I still use English when speaking to ATC. I've never had a problem in France with French controllers not using reasonable English - but maybe that's because I haven't flown to the places Whirly went to.
A good read Whirly, with some lessons learned for everyone, I'm sure. And, yes, the vis on Tuesday at le Tooks was fantastic - as I approached the field from 10nm East, at 2000ft, I could see right across the Channel to the white cliffs and a bit beyond - lovely sight
GB
Join Date: Mar 2000
Location: TL487591
Posts: 1,639
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I've never had a problem in France with French controllers not using reasonable English - but maybe that's because I haven't flown to the places Whirly went to.
The real problem is when you get airfields such as Granville that have no controller (or FISO) and are operated on the basis of UNICOM-style air-to-air calls. This so-called "Auto-information" needs to be in French and like any UNICOM system, listening to and understanding the other aircraft that are using the field is at least important as broadcasting your intentions.
2D
Spicy Meatball
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Liverpool UK
Age: 41
Posts: 1,115
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I cant believe I didn't see this for 4 days!
I have just read the thread from top to bottom, and I have to congratulate Whirls on such a respectable achievement. To fly solo like that into pretty much unknown territory is fantastic. I envy your determination and sheer guts to do such a thing
The writeup is excellent and will help many people who are planning to do such a thing, maybe including me in time to come.
Best wishes,
Maz
I have just read the thread from top to bottom, and I have to congratulate Whirls on such a respectable achievement. To fly solo like that into pretty much unknown territory is fantastic. I envy your determination and sheer guts to do such a thing
The writeup is excellent and will help many people who are planning to do such a thing, maybe including me in time to come.
Best wishes,
Maz
Join Date: Apr 2001
Location: Reading, Berkshire
Posts: 169
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Good story, well written.
The other situation to watch out for when flying to France is that airfields such as Deauville can become unlicensed at short notice. When this happens you can still land and take-off but you must be able to speak and understand Approach and Circuit-French. So it's always best to phone first to find out. I phoned Deauville and luckily found out that they weren't licensed on that particular Sunday until 1400, so was prepared. Unlike at least 3 UK pilots who turned back/diverted after they couldn't understand what was going on! Quel Dommage!
The other situation to watch out for when flying to France is that airfields such as Deauville can become unlicensed at short notice. When this happens you can still land and take-off but you must be able to speak and understand Approach and Circuit-French. So it's always best to phone first to find out. I phoned Deauville and luckily found out that they weren't licensed on that particular Sunday until 1400, so was prepared. Unlike at least 3 UK pilots who turned back/diverted after they couldn't understand what was going on! Quel Dommage!
The Original Whirly
Thread Starter
Join Date: Feb 1999
Location: Belper, Derbyshire, UK
Posts: 4,326
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Good point. I think a lot of problems could be solved by phoning the airfield first in any case. I always do this in the UK, and was going to in France. However, at Deauville I asked if they would call Angers for me to check they were open etc, and the reaction was that all I had to do was look in the flight guide, and it was an airfield, so of course they were open! I eventually persuaded him to phone, and understood enough to know that he felt that the "petite anglaise" who was so worried was really over-reacting a little bit. So after that I didn't phone. But no prizes for guessing what I'll be doing on future trips!
A great read, thanks Whirly.
But people like 2D are really doing their best to make sure we don't get any more of them. Someone takes the time - and decent writing does take a lot of time - to write up a story, and there's always some a*$ehole to jump in and nanny them to death, "oh you bad pilot you, fancy not being familiar with section 16.348(d) part 14 of the Lithuanian regulations, it's people like you who give General Aviation a bad name".
If you *really* think your two cents is that important, at least have the decency to say it privately. Better yet, just don't bother. That way maybe other people will feel OK with writing about their flying experiences.
I was thinking what a t*t this guy was before I saw all the other posts saying so. Glad to see I'm not the only one who feels this way.
n5296s
But people like 2D are really doing their best to make sure we don't get any more of them. Someone takes the time - and decent writing does take a lot of time - to write up a story, and there's always some a*$ehole to jump in and nanny them to death, "oh you bad pilot you, fancy not being familiar with section 16.348(d) part 14 of the Lithuanian regulations, it's people like you who give General Aviation a bad name".
If you *really* think your two cents is that important, at least have the decency to say it privately. Better yet, just don't bother. That way maybe other people will feel OK with writing about their flying experiences.
I was thinking what a t*t this guy was before I saw all the other posts saying so. Glad to see I'm not the only one who feels this way.
n5296s
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Dublin
Posts: 2,547
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
In all fairness to 2D's I think he was trying to help out.
He is a very experienced pilot, compared to most of us. I believe he looked at Whirlys posts, where she indicated that she found the cockpit workload very high, and stressful, and simply wanted to help point he in the right direction.
No doubt he has made the same mistakes in the past at some point, and has learnt to overcome them, and simply wanted to pass on his experience.
If you read his posts again, you will note that while he has tried to provide some guidance, he has also tried to include his positive support and encouragement in his posts, to keep balance.
Perhaps his point might have been better made in a pm (he may even accept that himself?) but in any case, I believe his posts were not to give his 2 cents worth, but were actually well intended, and meant to be helpful.
dp
ps. Thanks for the thread Whirly, I've really enjoyed reading it. It helps give me a taste for my forth coming thrip (which will probably also be solo).
He is a very experienced pilot, compared to most of us. I believe he looked at Whirlys posts, where she indicated that she found the cockpit workload very high, and stressful, and simply wanted to help point he in the right direction.
No doubt he has made the same mistakes in the past at some point, and has learnt to overcome them, and simply wanted to pass on his experience.
If you read his posts again, you will note that while he has tried to provide some guidance, he has also tried to include his positive support and encouragement in his posts, to keep balance.
Perhaps his point might have been better made in a pm (he may even accept that himself?) but in any case, I believe his posts were not to give his 2 cents worth, but were actually well intended, and meant to be helpful.
dp
ps. Thanks for the thread Whirly, I've really enjoyed reading it. It helps give me a taste for my forth coming thrip (which will probably also be solo).
The Original Whirly
Thread Starter
Join Date: Feb 1999
Location: Belper, Derbyshire, UK
Posts: 4,326
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
To be totally fair I too think that 2D made some good points. And yes, being a sensitive soul, I would prefer that he'd made them in private. But then the rest of you wouldn't have had the lessons pointed out, would you?
OTOH, I think many of my mistakes were down to inexperience of flying alone in a foreign country. A long forgotten CPL(H) course and innumerable helicopter trial lessons doesn't actually prepare you for flying solo in a C150 in France. I actually tended to plan like mad, but didn't necessarily do the things that were really needed. But on reflection, most of my stress and workload was self-inflicted. I worried...about crossing the channel, about talking to ATC, about ATC not replying, about not understanding them when they did, about all sorts of things. I kept trying to relax, but I couldn't, not at first. That lack of confidence in itself is exhausting.
Other than that, I have tended to play up the problems...you see, I was a writer long before I was a pilot, and it shows.
OTOH, I think many of my mistakes were down to inexperience of flying alone in a foreign country. A long forgotten CPL(H) course and innumerable helicopter trial lessons doesn't actually prepare you for flying solo in a C150 in France. I actually tended to plan like mad, but didn't necessarily do the things that were really needed. But on reflection, most of my stress and workload was self-inflicted. I worried...about crossing the channel, about talking to ATC, about ATC not replying, about not understanding them when they did, about all sorts of things. I kept trying to relax, but I couldn't, not at first. That lack of confidence in itself is exhausting.
Other than that, I have tended to play up the problems...you see, I was a writer long before I was a pilot, and it shows.
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: uk
Age: 49
Posts: 118
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Love the story WB, not seen much of you on the flyer forum for abit, post it on there!!! And as much as I hate to say it all 2D's is trying to help out with his knowledge of flying in France, he may come across as being a poppus Tw@t but he is a nice chap!
Amen
Amen
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: York
Posts: 3
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
What is a poppus Hollywood.
But I agree with your sentiment I've always found that 2D is generous with his undoubted fund of knowledge and understanding of the French (and that is difficult to achieve)
But I agree with your sentiment I've always found that 2D is generous with his undoubted fund of knowledge and understanding of the French (and that is difficult to achieve)
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: England
Posts: 0
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I just read this and I like the way the atmosphere is hold in the writing. Fantastic flying trip. I still dream about doing this. But why do our friends in the "other forum" say this is no good? I do not understand this. MR 2Donkey. Yes ok he has a lot of info on flying but he take away the pleaseure from a very good trip. Why he do that. Every body keep saying this word POPPUS. My dic (Please exuse me for short spelling|) does not have this word.
I think the other forum people should be a more care full about distroying confidense.
I am look forward to some more tales of the unexpected.
Thank you for sharring your storey.
I think the other forum people should be a more care full about distroying confidense.
I am look forward to some more tales of the unexpected.
Thank you for sharring your storey.
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: UK,Twighlight Zone
Posts: 0
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
The word you are looking for is POMPUS. 2D's can be, but I have found him very well meaning so dont be to hard on him. Ignore the criticism and accept the advice in the spirit it is intended.
We all make mistakes and hopefully learn from them. I have made many in my time!
I loved your style of writing whirly, very honest and entertaining and look forward to your next installement.
Next trip when you have a space call me as being a work shy layabout with nothing to do other than sit in my Jacuzzi and drink Bolly I can go on trip at the drop of a hat!
I also have a little Cessna time.....
We all make mistakes and hopefully learn from them. I have made many in my time!
I loved your style of writing whirly, very honest and entertaining and look forward to your next installement.
Next trip when you have a space call me as being a work shy layabout with nothing to do other than sit in my Jacuzzi and drink Bolly I can go on trip at the drop of a hat!
I also have a little Cessna time.....
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: England
Posts: 0
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I say thank you for your informations. My dic does not have this word pompus. I maybe need a new dic.
Yes I make mistake as well but I try and be kind to my aviation friends. I see Mr 2Donkey does not do this.
Yes I make mistake as well but I try and be kind to my aviation friends. I see Mr 2Donkey does not do this.
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: England
Posts: 0
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Sorry I no understand your language. You talk about a lady. You say MR 2Donkey is a lady as well. May be that is why she has some words to say to Whirlygirl. I think 2Donkey is very big stautue in FLYER.
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: Dorset
Posts: 902
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
bose-x + bpilatus - actually, the word you want is POMPOUS - you should find that one in the dictionary!
And, 2D, I'm not ascribing that description to you - very difficult with this InterWeb thingy to express intonation and the softer aspects of communications. Understood exactly what you were trying to say, but it did come across a tad on the harsh side (knowing that Whirlybird herself describes herself as lacking in confidence, maybe a softer approach may have helped).
Whirly - sounds like this was a learning experience for you - as someone who's never been across the water (even to LFAT), more power to your elbow for doing it!
A PPRuNe outing over the water this summer, perhaps??
And, 2D, I'm not ascribing that description to you - very difficult with this InterWeb thingy to express intonation and the softer aspects of communications. Understood exactly what you were trying to say, but it did come across a tad on the harsh side (knowing that Whirlybird herself describes herself as lacking in confidence, maybe a softer approach may have helped).
Whirly - sounds like this was a learning experience for you - as someone who's never been across the water (even to LFAT), more power to your elbow for doing it!
A PPRuNe outing over the water this summer, perhaps??