Solo Trip to France
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Two weeks ago I had to divert to Tours due to some pretty awful weather which was moving in rather fast and was getting increasingly anoyed with the controller at Tours.
I was unable to understand him even after asking him to repeat again slowely twice, on almost every transmision he made. I was then asked to orbit at Echo for a while when the Alpha jets did their bit. In the mean time the cracks of lightning from embedded CB's were get closer and closer. I was eventually cleared to land but it was not the most enjoyable experience.
Maarten
I was unable to understand him even after asking him to repeat again slowely twice, on almost every transmision he made. I was then asked to orbit at Echo for a while when the Alpha jets did their bit. In the mean time the cracks of lightning from embedded CB's were get closer and closer. I was eventually cleared to land but it was not the most enjoyable experience.
Maarten
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dublinpilot:
As Whirly says, the Jeppesen/Bottlang VFR plates have all these points marked.
And these days you can also get the French plates from their online AIS system as follows:[list=1][*]Go to http://www.sia.aviation-civile.gouv.fr/default_uk.htm[*]Select AIP -> France Metropolitaine[*]Select "CARTES D'APPROCHE ET D'ATTERRISSAGE A VUE (VAC)"[*]Select T -> AD 2.LFOT TOURS VAL DE LOIRE [/list=1] This takes you to http://www.sia.aviation-civile.gouv....D%202.LFOT.pdf which is the visual plate for Tours LFOT, and you will see the points marked:
Writing them on your chart, or sticking them into your GPS via Navbox or similar before you go is easy solution - but as Whirly says, you don't always need to use them, and anyway if you just tip up at a field (whether for pleasure of diversion) you need to just figure it out from the plate.
I think generally speaking the bigger the airfield, and the more MIL activity, the more likley it is you will need to use these points.
Andy
I take it, these would be marked in a VFR guide or such?
And these days you can also get the French plates from their online AIS system as follows:[list=1][*]Go to http://www.sia.aviation-civile.gouv.fr/default_uk.htm[*]Select AIP -> France Metropolitaine[*]Select "CARTES D'APPROCHE ET D'ATTERRISSAGE A VUE (VAC)"[*]Select T -> AD 2.LFOT TOURS VAL DE LOIRE [/list=1] This takes you to http://www.sia.aviation-civile.gouv....D%202.LFOT.pdf which is the visual plate for Tours LFOT, and you will see the points marked:
- Novemeber - to the north
- November Echo - northeast
- Whiskey - just west of the field
- Echo - east of the field
- Sierra - Sort of south east of the field
- Sierra Whiskey - a long way south-west of the field
- Langeais - a town to the south west
Writing them on your chart, or sticking them into your GPS via Navbox or similar before you go is easy solution - but as Whirly says, you don't always need to use them, and anyway if you just tip up at a field (whether for pleasure of diversion) you need to just figure it out from the plate.
I think generally speaking the bigger the airfield, and the more MIL activity, the more likley it is you will need to use these points.
Andy
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Thanks a million Andy. That is very helpful! Especially the link!
I'm just starting to plan my own trip to France, probably at going for the last two weeks in August.
As I look at my gps now for this airfield, I see that it already has these points in it! I love PocketFMS more and more!
dp
I'm just starting to plan my own trip to France, probably at going for the last two weeks in August.
As I look at my gps now for this airfield, I see that it already has these points in it! I love PocketFMS more and more!
dp
Some more money for Capt PPRuNe
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Hi Whirls
Its been good reading your updates so far. Keep them coming...
France is great to fly in but the differences between UK and FR do tend to make us on edge a bit when we not used to it - I think this is especially poignant for VFR flying. I've done a few mad, hair raising trips through France and Spain over the last few years, I would say the following factors increase the stress above the norm for flying, for me:
1. Lack of familiarity with airspace and general procedures (example: clearances frequently not explicitly read out),
2. Not being allowed to fly IFR (I hold an IMCR but no IR),
3. Not being fluent in French (hence more difficult to query something ATC say which you're unsure of),
4. We tend to be flying to our endurance limits because of the large distances involved & limited time - this was obvious from what you said and I do exactly the same (such as struggling to visualise circuit patterns, making poor RT calls etc, the so called brain fade you mentioned),
5. Concern in respect of the Wx because we're not used to the area - hence its more difficult to judge in the air while we're flying,
6. General concerns such as; Will the airport have 100LL? Where will we stay tonight? Can I find the VRPs?
Good luck with the rest of the trip. The satisfaction of completing a long European tour is unbelievably fantastic.
Learn a bit of aviation French, know your VRPs (once you're used to the compass reporting points they're easier than the UK because you know roughly where on your map to look). Carry plenty of cash so you don't have to worry whether or not your CC will be accepted.
Maybe see you at the next Gatbash,
Rich
Its been good reading your updates so far. Keep them coming...
France is great to fly in but the differences between UK and FR do tend to make us on edge a bit when we not used to it - I think this is especially poignant for VFR flying. I've done a few mad, hair raising trips through France and Spain over the last few years, I would say the following factors increase the stress above the norm for flying, for me:
1. Lack of familiarity with airspace and general procedures (example: clearances frequently not explicitly read out),
2. Not being allowed to fly IFR (I hold an IMCR but no IR),
3. Not being fluent in French (hence more difficult to query something ATC say which you're unsure of),
4. We tend to be flying to our endurance limits because of the large distances involved & limited time - this was obvious from what you said and I do exactly the same (such as struggling to visualise circuit patterns, making poor RT calls etc, the so called brain fade you mentioned),
5. Concern in respect of the Wx because we're not used to the area - hence its more difficult to judge in the air while we're flying,
6. General concerns such as; Will the airport have 100LL? Where will we stay tonight? Can I find the VRPs?
Good luck with the rest of the trip. The satisfaction of completing a long European tour is unbelievably fantastic.
Learn a bit of aviation French, know your VRPs (once you're used to the compass reporting points they're easier than the UK because you know roughly where on your map to look). Carry plenty of cash so you don't have to worry whether or not your CC will be accepted.
Maybe see you at the next Gatbash,
Rich
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FRIDAY 10TH JUNE
Much needed day off! I send some things home, because with two of us we'll be really tight on weight. After P realised she couldn't come I decided to take another book or two, and more than one change of clothes; now, I send them home. I also do some laundry, because I can. Apart from that I lie by the pool, talk to the dogs and horses, and go for country walks. By the evening I'm recovered, and itching to be back in the air!
BTW, Sue's website is at www.nearlyheaven.com.
SATURDAY 11TH JUNE
Sue is flying to La Rochelle for lunch with the chap who's over here from the UK doing his 12 hours flying with her, and we decide we'll go along too. We all go the airport together, and leave around the same time. They're in a Robin and much faster than us, but we arrange to meet at la Rochelle airport, then get a taxi into the old part of town for a meal.
P is flying, and I navigate and do the radio. It's just so much easier with two of us; I actually have time to look at the view! It's all slightly odd at first; P is feeling a bit strange to be suddenly flying in the middle of France, and I, instead of relying on her a lot, realise I'm the one with all the recent French flying experience. For instance, I've marked the possible La Rochelle reporting points on the half mil chart, so that I can find them if necessary. La Rochelle is Class D, and apparently sometimes very crowded. But not this time. When we make our first radio call, there is no reply, and Sue, about to shut down after landing, tells us over the radio that there's no-one there, and to just make blind calls in French. Now, can you imagine that happening at an airport in Class D airspace in the UK? Anyway, P asks if I want her to do it, and I say no, if I don't have to fly as well I can manage. I get out my crib sheet, and manage to say when we're ten minutes from the airport, and then make airfield in sight, downwind, and final calls. It's odd; I feel a bit like when I first learned to fly; I press the transmit button and then can't think what to say, and have to read it. Anyway, we turn over the sea with gorgeous scenery, and land in a deserted airport. We go for lunch in the picturesque old part of town, then wander around, then get a taxi back. La Rochelle airport has completely changed. A commercial flight is in, and we can't get back to the aircraft without showing our pilots' licences, which of course we've left in KF. They decide that passports will do, but make us go through security etc with all the passengers. It's all very crowded and different from when we arrived.
We've decided to fly up to La Baule for the night, a small airfield by a beach resort. I fly, P does the nav and radio. It's almost all coastal flying, and very easy and pretty. We're not sure if there'll be anyone at La Baule, but it turns out they're doing parachuting. They give us incomprehensible instructions, and neither of us manage to understand how we're supposed to approach. We tell them we just don't understand, and they let us land anyway. Sometimes even P's fluent French doesn't help, especially when people think they're speaking English! Anyway, it's a lovely friendly little airfield, and they phone for a hotel for us. What we don't know is that some sort of sailing regatta is on, and we get about the last hotel room in town. But it's fine, a small local hotel on the outskirts of a modern beach resort. We drink beer, wander along the front, look at the shops, and enjoy the contrast with old and pretty La Rochelle. This is definitely beginning to feel more like a holiday. It's not that I don't like flying alone, but it's definitely more fun with two. But I'm beginning to realise how much I've learned in the four days alone, and I'm very, very glad I did it. But if I did it again, and I might, I'd learn the language better, and do less flying - either only one leg per day, or take off one day in every two.
Much needed day off! I send some things home, because with two of us we'll be really tight on weight. After P realised she couldn't come I decided to take another book or two, and more than one change of clothes; now, I send them home. I also do some laundry, because I can. Apart from that I lie by the pool, talk to the dogs and horses, and go for country walks. By the evening I'm recovered, and itching to be back in the air!
BTW, Sue's website is at www.nearlyheaven.com.
SATURDAY 11TH JUNE
Sue is flying to La Rochelle for lunch with the chap who's over here from the UK doing his 12 hours flying with her, and we decide we'll go along too. We all go the airport together, and leave around the same time. They're in a Robin and much faster than us, but we arrange to meet at la Rochelle airport, then get a taxi into the old part of town for a meal.
P is flying, and I navigate and do the radio. It's just so much easier with two of us; I actually have time to look at the view! It's all slightly odd at first; P is feeling a bit strange to be suddenly flying in the middle of France, and I, instead of relying on her a lot, realise I'm the one with all the recent French flying experience. For instance, I've marked the possible La Rochelle reporting points on the half mil chart, so that I can find them if necessary. La Rochelle is Class D, and apparently sometimes very crowded. But not this time. When we make our first radio call, there is no reply, and Sue, about to shut down after landing, tells us over the radio that there's no-one there, and to just make blind calls in French. Now, can you imagine that happening at an airport in Class D airspace in the UK? Anyway, P asks if I want her to do it, and I say no, if I don't have to fly as well I can manage. I get out my crib sheet, and manage to say when we're ten minutes from the airport, and then make airfield in sight, downwind, and final calls. It's odd; I feel a bit like when I first learned to fly; I press the transmit button and then can't think what to say, and have to read it. Anyway, we turn over the sea with gorgeous scenery, and land in a deserted airport. We go for lunch in the picturesque old part of town, then wander around, then get a taxi back. La Rochelle airport has completely changed. A commercial flight is in, and we can't get back to the aircraft without showing our pilots' licences, which of course we've left in KF. They decide that passports will do, but make us go through security etc with all the passengers. It's all very crowded and different from when we arrived.
We've decided to fly up to La Baule for the night, a small airfield by a beach resort. I fly, P does the nav and radio. It's almost all coastal flying, and very easy and pretty. We're not sure if there'll be anyone at La Baule, but it turns out they're doing parachuting. They give us incomprehensible instructions, and neither of us manage to understand how we're supposed to approach. We tell them we just don't understand, and they let us land anyway. Sometimes even P's fluent French doesn't help, especially when people think they're speaking English! Anyway, it's a lovely friendly little airfield, and they phone for a hotel for us. What we don't know is that some sort of sailing regatta is on, and we get about the last hotel room in town. But it's fine, a small local hotel on the outskirts of a modern beach resort. We drink beer, wander along the front, look at the shops, and enjoy the contrast with old and pretty La Rochelle. This is definitely beginning to feel more like a holiday. It's not that I don't like flying alone, but it's definitely more fun with two. But I'm beginning to realise how much I've learned in the four days alone, and I'm very, very glad I did it. But if I did it again, and I might, I'd learn the language better, and do less flying - either only one leg per day, or take off one day in every two.
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Good moaning
I (the chap from England) took a rather lazier approach to flying in the 'heart' of France.
First step was a Ryanair flight from Stanstead direct to Limoges - Have done two trips this year which both cost about £70 booked a couple of weeks in advance.
Car hire is very cheap (from about £17 per day) - Hertz and Europcar vehicles can be booked on-line and picked-up/returned directly outside of the terminal though Sue (www.nearlyheaven.com) is happy to ferry her customers to and from the airport.
It really is very handy flying with an English pilot who knows the local area and procedures though we fitted-in some quite long trips including the one (mentioned by Whirlybird) to La Rochelle who were only responding to calls in French on that particular morning.
Best of all is the cost of the flying with the Aeroclub Limoges - About half that of a UK club and I do like the Robin DR400 with it's excellent visibility and (oh joy) a stick.
The club have 2 DR400-140's and a DR400-180 as well as a DA40 Diamond Star which I hope to fly on a future trip.
All of my previous French flying was to the 'day trip' destinations where they are well used to handling British pilots with the minimum of formality.
The landing fees up that end tend to be at English levels though they seem to range between nothing and 4 or 5 euros in the rest of France.
A few tips on filing flight plans:
At Le Touquet, this is now done by FAX but do be sure to press the right button or you will end up simply making a copy as I did - TWICE.
At Deauville, the machine for submission of flight plans has never worked (for me) in several years - You go though the long-winded process of entering all of the data (which takes several minutes) and it then fails to transmit - Just pick up the phone next to the machine and read out the flight plan to a person which takes less than 2 minutes.
At Rouen, I once wasted 45 minutes trying to file a flight plan - There was nobody about to take it, the machine was not working and several numbers provided by ATC did not answer.
I decided to file while airborne with Deauville who insisted that this was only possible 'in person' though we then switched to Le Touquet (on our route) who were happy to take the plan by radio.
Next time to Rouen, I will file the return flight plan at the same time as the outgoing.
Regards
Les
I (the chap from England) took a rather lazier approach to flying in the 'heart' of France.
First step was a Ryanair flight from Stanstead direct to Limoges - Have done two trips this year which both cost about £70 booked a couple of weeks in advance.
Car hire is very cheap (from about £17 per day) - Hertz and Europcar vehicles can be booked on-line and picked-up/returned directly outside of the terminal though Sue (www.nearlyheaven.com) is happy to ferry her customers to and from the airport.
It really is very handy flying with an English pilot who knows the local area and procedures though we fitted-in some quite long trips including the one (mentioned by Whirlybird) to La Rochelle who were only responding to calls in French on that particular morning.
Best of all is the cost of the flying with the Aeroclub Limoges - About half that of a UK club and I do like the Robin DR400 with it's excellent visibility and (oh joy) a stick.
The club have 2 DR400-140's and a DR400-180 as well as a DA40 Diamond Star which I hope to fly on a future trip.
All of my previous French flying was to the 'day trip' destinations where they are well used to handling British pilots with the minimum of formality.
The landing fees up that end tend to be at English levels though they seem to range between nothing and 4 or 5 euros in the rest of France.
A few tips on filing flight plans:
At Le Touquet, this is now done by FAX but do be sure to press the right button or you will end up simply making a copy as I did - TWICE.
At Deauville, the machine for submission of flight plans has never worked (for me) in several years - You go though the long-winded process of entering all of the data (which takes several minutes) and it then fails to transmit - Just pick up the phone next to the machine and read out the flight plan to a person which takes less than 2 minutes.
At Rouen, I once wasted 45 minutes trying to file a flight plan - There was nobody about to take it, the machine was not working and several numbers provided by ATC did not answer.
I decided to file while airborne with Deauville who insisted that this was only possible 'in person' though we then switched to Le Touquet (on our route) who were happy to take the plan by radio.
Next time to Rouen, I will file the return flight plan at the same time as the outgoing.
Regards
Les
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Well, hi Les; I wondered if you'd get to read this. Didn't mention your name, as not everyone wants 80,000+ people to know about them...I don't care, as you've probably gathered. Glad you made it back to Limoges from La Rochelle safely. I'm making fairly serious plans to get a Ryanair flight to Limoges in September and go flying with Sue...though I don't have your excuse of needing the hours.
More diary later...
Didn't mention your name, as not everyone wants 80,000+ people to know about them...I don't care, as you've probably gathered. Glad you made it back to Limoges from La Rochelle safely. I'm making fairly serious plans to get a Ryanair flight to Limoges in September and go flying with Sue...though I don't have your excuse of needing the hours.More diary later...
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Hours well completed now and future visits will be purely for fun.
I was previously a member of a syndicate for about 18 years until we sold our well-knackered Fuji 200 last year (Rust In Peace).
I had intended to join a UK club and may still do so but Limoges is a great base for travelling throughout France and other European destinations at a cost comparable to syndicate aircraft ownership but with no risk of any unforseen major bills.
In practice, probably a good bit cheaper unless you are able to fly quite frequently.
The presence of a locally-based UK flying instructor is a considerable bonus so I have now added two DR400 types (140 & 180) to my experience.
I saw a mention of Pocket FMS in this discussion and will take this up in a new thread.
Regards
Les
I was previously a member of a syndicate for about 18 years until we sold our well-knackered Fuji 200 last year (Rust In Peace).
I had intended to join a UK club and may still do so but Limoges is a great base for travelling throughout France and other European destinations at a cost comparable to syndicate aircraft ownership but with no risk of any unforseen major bills.
In practice, probably a good bit cheaper unless you are able to fly quite frequently.
The presence of a locally-based UK flying instructor is a considerable bonus so I have now added two DR400 types (140 & 180) to my experience.
I saw a mention of Pocket FMS in this discussion and will take this up in a new thread.
Regards
Les
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This is a fun story to read, and I'm looking forward to seeing how it concludes.
Whilst I can appreciate that you say your fixed-wing experience is quite meagre, you are a CPL(H) and instructor as I understand it. This implies a familiarity with certain basic aspects of pre-flight planning. Strangely, many of your workload inducing issues appear to be related to planning problems.
For example
- routing Echo followed by Sierra is the standard *documented* departure from Tours for points south. You'll find it in Bottlang and in the free online AIP. The routing exists to stop you busting the ZIT near Sorigny. EUR 150,000 fine for that offence.
- La Baule was NOTAMed with parachute activity on the day of your flight (I was also in the area)
It is tough to tell from your write-up what kind of pre-flight planning you actually perform, but perhaps a little more would lessen your workload?
2D
Whilst I can appreciate that you say your fixed-wing experience is quite meagre, you are a CPL(H) and instructor as I understand it. This implies a familiarity with certain basic aspects of pre-flight planning. Strangely, many of your workload inducing issues appear to be related to planning problems.
For example
- routing Echo followed by Sierra is the standard *documented* departure from Tours for points south. You'll find it in Bottlang and in the free online AIP. The routing exists to stop you busting the ZIT near Sorigny. EUR 150,000 fine for that offence.
- La Baule was NOTAMed with parachute activity on the day of your flight (I was also in the area)
It is tough to tell from your write-up what kind of pre-flight planning you actually perform, but perhaps a little more would lessen your workload?
2D
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SUNDAY 12TH JUNE
We've been amazingly lucky so far; we've had good weather all the way, AND TAILWINDS!!! We think this can't last forever, and it seems like it won't. The weather in the UK is due to change at some point next week. P has to be back on Tuesday; I have a couple of days more if needed. We decide to go from La Baule to Granville for lunch. A British pilot at Deauville told me it was a nice place, but it's air to air in French only, and I didn't fancy trying it alone. After that we want to get close enough to Le Touquet that we can cross the channel on Monday if it seems necessary due to weather; if I have to, I can drop P off anywhere in the UK, and get back to Sleap whenever possible. I suggest Le Havre, but P wants to go somewhere small. On the strength of a nice picture in the Piloteplus guide, we decide on Bernay. We know nothing about it, but that's the fun of flying, sometimes.
We explore the coast around La Baule from the air for a bit, then set heading for Granville. We go through Rennes airspace, talk to them, no problems at all. This is how flying in France is meant to be. Getting close to Granville, we take photos of St Michel (spelling?), an interesting building on a tiny little island. We're not sure what's there, but it's a restricted area, so we circle as close to it as we can. Someone reading this will probably know what's there and be amazed at my ignorance; do let me know! I make blind calls in French to Granville; I'm getting used to this now, and next time I could do it alone. It's only the first time in aviation that things can seem really difficult. We land, and the restaurant is closed...despite what it says in Piloteplus. Lovely friendly little airfield though, and right close to the beach. We get directed to walk along the beach to the next village if we want to eat, and we find a roadside cafe, with good food as usual...can you get bad food in France? We come back, refuel, and set off for Bernay.
We're now inland, and almost retracing my original route to Deauville. We talk to Rouen, who are as professional and understandable as before, and I now recognise the town and the Seine. Bernay has a grass runway, and its extremely wide, a bit disorientating on final, but I land safely. We can't work out where their taxiways are, and it's air to air in French again. We manage somehow, then park, and there's hardly anyone around. We tie down KF, and for once are glad of the Piloteplus guide to find a number for a taxi and a hotel. This guide tells you about airfield restaurants, places to stay, taxis, sites of local interest etc. It's sort of bilingual, though mainly in French. It's not always correct, but it's worth buying for the taxi numbers alone, unless you like long walks from airports. Anyway, our hotel turns out to be confortable and good value, but boring and modern, and on the outskirts of town. I suggest to P that we get a taxi to the centre of town to explore and have a meal. We do, and it's lovely. It's full of interesting old buildings, with loads to see. However, most of the retaurants are closed as it's Sunday, and we eventually end up in a Chinese restaurant. Well, why not?
2Donkeys,
I think my post crossed with yours.
I had the plate for Tours, I knew about point Sierra, but was told by everyone at the GA part of Tours that I\'d be able to go to Echo then do my own thing. They turned out to be wrong, so I followed instructions. But I wasn\'t pleased, that\'s all...and that\'s all I said.
We weren\'t able to get NOTAMS at La Rochelle; everything was closed when we arrived, and we had trouble talking to anyone when we left. Nantes told us about the parachute activity at La Baule, so we knew; our problem was understanding exactly what they wanted us to do.
I do the usual preflight planning. I don\'t bother to go into detail about exactly what I do, since I take it as read. I don\'t mention that I shower and brush my teeth either.
We've been amazingly lucky so far; we've had good weather all the way, AND TAILWINDS!!! We think this can't last forever, and it seems like it won't. The weather in the UK is due to change at some point next week. P has to be back on Tuesday; I have a couple of days more if needed. We decide to go from La Baule to Granville for lunch. A British pilot at Deauville told me it was a nice place, but it's air to air in French only, and I didn't fancy trying it alone. After that we want to get close enough to Le Touquet that we can cross the channel on Monday if it seems necessary due to weather; if I have to, I can drop P off anywhere in the UK, and get back to Sleap whenever possible. I suggest Le Havre, but P wants to go somewhere small. On the strength of a nice picture in the Piloteplus guide, we decide on Bernay. We know nothing about it, but that's the fun of flying, sometimes.
We explore the coast around La Baule from the air for a bit, then set heading for Granville. We go through Rennes airspace, talk to them, no problems at all. This is how flying in France is meant to be. Getting close to Granville, we take photos of St Michel (spelling?), an interesting building on a tiny little island. We're not sure what's there, but it's a restricted area, so we circle as close to it as we can. Someone reading this will probably know what's there and be amazed at my ignorance; do let me know! I make blind calls in French to Granville; I'm getting used to this now, and next time I could do it alone. It's only the first time in aviation that things can seem really difficult. We land, and the restaurant is closed...despite what it says in Piloteplus. Lovely friendly little airfield though, and right close to the beach. We get directed to walk along the beach to the next village if we want to eat, and we find a roadside cafe, with good food as usual...can you get bad food in France? We come back, refuel, and set off for Bernay.
We're now inland, and almost retracing my original route to Deauville. We talk to Rouen, who are as professional and understandable as before, and I now recognise the town and the Seine. Bernay has a grass runway, and its extremely wide, a bit disorientating on final, but I land safely. We can't work out where their taxiways are, and it's air to air in French again. We manage somehow, then park, and there's hardly anyone around. We tie down KF, and for once are glad of the Piloteplus guide to find a number for a taxi and a hotel. This guide tells you about airfield restaurants, places to stay, taxis, sites of local interest etc. It's sort of bilingual, though mainly in French. It's not always correct, but it's worth buying for the taxi numbers alone, unless you like long walks from airports. Anyway, our hotel turns out to be confortable and good value, but boring and modern, and on the outskirts of town. I suggest to P that we get a taxi to the centre of town to explore and have a meal. We do, and it's lovely. It's full of interesting old buildings, with loads to see. However, most of the retaurants are closed as it's Sunday, and we eventually end up in a Chinese restaurant. Well, why not?
2Donkeys,
I think my post crossed with yours.
I had the plate for Tours, I knew about point Sierra, but was told by everyone at the GA part of Tours that I\'d be able to go to Echo then do my own thing. They turned out to be wrong, so I followed instructions. But I wasn\'t pleased, that\'s all...and that\'s all I said.
We weren\'t able to get NOTAMS at La Rochelle; everything was closed when we arrived, and we had trouble talking to anyone when we left. Nantes told us about the parachute activity at La Baule, so we knew; our problem was understanding exactly what they wanted us to do.
I do the usual preflight planning. I don\'t bother to go into detail about exactly what I do, since I take it as read. I don\'t mention that I shower and brush my teeth either.
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My posting predated your most recent, in which you talk about your trip to Granville.
Once again, it may interest you to know that the airfield at Granville is restricted use, being available only to based aircraft and those visiting the resident maintenance company.
This dispute relates to the arrival of a parachute club and the insistance on the part of the DGAC that a FISO is now necessary to manage the traffic. The club doesn't want to pay, so the restriction is now in place. The club is suffering under the restriction and it is major bone of contention.
You'll find that the restiction is NOTAMed, as well as being on the club's website:
http://www.aeroclubgranville.com/aviation/index.php
LFFA-D1146/05
Q)LFRR/QFALT/IV/NBO/ A/000/999/4853N00134W005
A) LFRF GRANVILLE
B) 200503250000 C) 200509092300
E) AERODROME LIMITE :
AD RESERVE AUX ACFT BASES ET CEUX A DEST DE L'UNITE D'ENTRETIEN AIR COTENTIN
Aircraft such as yours landing there are uninsured, and in breach of the law. A G-reg was impounded there briefly two weeks ago by the Gendarmes checking compliance with the rules.
You'll note that the problem has also been covered on Pprune:
http://www.pprune.org/forums/showthr...ight=Granville
I love reading about the adventure, but I still think that your flight planning needs some attention.
2D
Once again, it may interest you to know that the airfield at Granville is restricted use, being available only to based aircraft and those visiting the resident maintenance company.
This dispute relates to the arrival of a parachute club and the insistance on the part of the DGAC that a FISO is now necessary to manage the traffic. The club doesn't want to pay, so the restriction is now in place. The club is suffering under the restriction and it is major bone of contention.
You'll find that the restiction is NOTAMed, as well as being on the club's website:
http://www.aeroclubgranville.com/aviation/index.php
LFFA-D1146/05
Q)LFRR/QFALT/IV/NBO/ A/000/999/4853N00134W005
A) LFRF GRANVILLE
B) 200503250000 C) 200509092300
E) AERODROME LIMITE :
AD RESERVE AUX ACFT BASES ET CEUX A DEST DE L'UNITE D'ENTRETIEN AIR COTENTIN
Aircraft such as yours landing there are uninsured, and in breach of the law. A G-reg was impounded there briefly two weeks ago by the Gendarmes checking compliance with the rules.
You'll note that the problem has also been covered on Pprune:
http://www.pprune.org/forums/showthr...ight=Granville
I love reading about the adventure, but I still think that your flight planning needs some attention.
2D
Last edited by 2Donkeys; 19th Jun 2005 at 15:39.
The Original Whirly
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MONDAY 13TH JUNE
We decide to drop into Abbeville for lunch. I manage to ascertain whether the runway is 02 or 20 - always confusing - in French, without even using a crib sheet! I'll learn toi speak French yet. The restaurant is supposed to be open, but isn't. We can't get fuel either, and we didn't get any at Bernay. A quick calculation shows that we'll be OK for Le Touquet, so we set off. We arrive in Le Touquet mid-afternoon, and check the weather. It looks like our luck will hold, and we decide to have a last overnight in France.
TUESDAY 14TH JUNE
The weather is lovely. We take off, and can see the white cliffs of Dover from Cap Gris Nez. We head for Lydd; this is a nostalgia thing on my part, since as a child my family used to go on touring holidays in France, using the Lydd-Le Touquet car ferry. With the time difference, we get there mid-morning, then fly to Oxford, where I leave P. I fly to Wellesbourne to spend the night with a friend. The headwind is picking up horribly, and I really don't want to have to battle it all the way to Sleap, especially as I have a couple more days free anyway. According to all the forecasts I've seen, there's a front due on Thursday, but nothing untoward till then. But the FISO at Wellesbourne shows me the latest wx, and it's changed. The front is now due the next day! I consider leaving; I'm so close; I don't want to get stranded now. But the wind is picking up still more, and I'm too tired; it just wouldn't be sensible. I decide to stay overnight, and get home when I can.
WEDNESDAY 15TH JUNE
I wake up to rain, as expected. I mope around, wondering if I'll be able to leave in the afternoon, or whether I should just take the day off and go sightseeing in Stratford. Eventually I go to the airport, check the wxc, phone Wolverhampton and Sleap, and decide it seems OK. I set off mid-afternoon for Sleap. The vis is great, but the wind a bit strong. At Sleap it's about 25kts, down the runway, but gusting. I'm ready to do a go-around if necessary, but luck is on my side; the gusts stop while I'm on final, and I land safely. I put KF to bed and sadly say goodbye to her...because I wish it wasn't over and I'd like to do it all again!
We decide to drop into Abbeville for lunch. I manage to ascertain whether the runway is 02 or 20 - always confusing - in French, without even using a crib sheet! I'll learn toi speak French yet. The restaurant is supposed to be open, but isn't. We can't get fuel either, and we didn't get any at Bernay. A quick calculation shows that we'll be OK for Le Touquet, so we set off. We arrive in Le Touquet mid-afternoon, and check the weather. It looks like our luck will hold, and we decide to have a last overnight in France.
TUESDAY 14TH JUNE
The weather is lovely. We take off, and can see the white cliffs of Dover from Cap Gris Nez. We head for Lydd; this is a nostalgia thing on my part, since as a child my family used to go on touring holidays in France, using the Lydd-Le Touquet car ferry. With the time difference, we get there mid-morning, then fly to Oxford, where I leave P. I fly to Wellesbourne to spend the night with a friend. The headwind is picking up horribly, and I really don't want to have to battle it all the way to Sleap, especially as I have a couple more days free anyway. According to all the forecasts I've seen, there's a front due on Thursday, but nothing untoward till then. But the FISO at Wellesbourne shows me the latest wx, and it's changed. The front is now due the next day! I consider leaving; I'm so close; I don't want to get stranded now. But the wind is picking up still more, and I'm too tired; it just wouldn't be sensible. I decide to stay overnight, and get home when I can.
WEDNESDAY 15TH JUNE
I wake up to rain, as expected. I mope around, wondering if I'll be able to leave in the afternoon, or whether I should just take the day off and go sightseeing in Stratford. Eventually I go to the airport, check the wxc, phone Wolverhampton and Sleap, and decide it seems OK. I set off mid-afternoon for Sleap. The vis is great, but the wind a bit strong. At Sleap it's about 25kts, down the runway, but gusting. I'm ready to do a go-around if necessary, but luck is on my side; the gusts stop while I'm on final, and I land safely. I put KF to bed and sadly say goodbye to her...because I wish it wasn't over and I'd like to do it all again!
Avoid imitations
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Whirly,
Well done for putting your story up here.
Shame that whatever gets posted on this website, there is always some smartar$e waiting to pounce to prove he is more experienced / better / bigger / has more hours / holier than thou.
2D, you are that man.
Well done for putting your story up here.
Shame that whatever gets posted on this website, there is always some smartar$e waiting to pounce to prove he is more experienced / better / bigger / has more hours / holier than thou.
2D, you are that man.
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So it's OK to land at an airfield that is NOTAMed as closed to visitors?
To answer a question raised above, Mont St Michel is an abbey built in the middle ages on a rock that dominates the Baie de Mont St Michel - which is famous for some of the fastest tides in the world. Well worth a visit, out of the tourist season. There's a restricted zone around it (I think to 3500ft - haven't got a chart handy) to stop people flying around it too low.
To answer a question raised above, Mont St Michel is an abbey built in the middle ages on a rock that dominates the Baie de Mont St Michel - which is famous for some of the fastest tides in the world. Well worth a visit, out of the tourist season. There's a restricted zone around it (I think to 3500ft - haven't got a chart handy) to stop people flying around it too low.
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Sorry you feel that way Shyte old chap!
I reckon that it's a bad mistake to land at an airfield that is NOTAMed as unavailable.
I think I kept the tone of my posting very positive. I liked the story, but I think that the flight planning that it demonstrates could be better. No more no less.
Brits turning up failing to follow the rules and apparently unaware of NOTAMs don't do anybody any favours.
That isn't a personal attack on Whirlybird, it is a statement of fact.
2D
I reckon that it's a bad mistake to land at an airfield that is NOTAMed as unavailable.
I think I kept the tone of my posting very positive. I liked the story, but I think that the flight planning that it demonstrates could be better. No more no less.
Brits turning up failing to follow the rules and apparently unaware of NOTAMs don't do anybody any favours.
That isn't a personal attack on Whirlybird, it is a statement of fact.
2D
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well said ShyTorque... that was fantastic Whirly! That place sue has seems well worth the visit, even if only to ride the horses!
Thanks for the well structured diary, it gives me a real insight and things to learn before going over to France for my first flying visit with a friend.
And too 2D, just give it a rest! People like you put me off flying that i am not used too. At the end of the day flying is meant to be FUN & SAFE! they had a good time... maybe you should try that for yourself one day
Do you happen to know if sue offers any horse riding lessons? I have never been within 10' of a horse
Thanks for the well structured diary, it gives me a real insight and things to learn before going over to France for my first flying visit with a friend.
And too 2D, just give it a rest! People like you put me off flying that i am not used too. At the end of the day flying is meant to be FUN & SAFE! they had a good time... maybe you should try that for yourself one day
Do you happen to know if sue offers any horse riding lessons? I have never been within 10' of a horse
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I'm prone to jump to the defense of those that are by "hearsay" judged guilty by others on this forum.
Whirly, as 2D consistently points out politely, is guilty by her own admission. I agree with 2D that a bit more prep/planning would have saved her an enormous amount of stress.
I recently led a 7 ship Balbo to Abbeville - having recce'd the whole thing first as a singleton, I realised that being able to make important radio calls in French was pretty imperative, I learned the correct phraseology - you'd not want some poor French chap inbound to his home field in his Jodel, who couldn't speak English, not to know that seven fast moving a/c were inbound to land in stream!
I've met and like them both - this is not personal! It's all a learning thing.
Luv
Stik
Whirly, as 2D consistently points out politely, is guilty by her own admission. I agree with 2D that a bit more prep/planning would have saved her an enormous amount of stress.
I recently led a 7 ship Balbo to Abbeville - having recce'd the whole thing first as a singleton, I realised that being able to make important radio calls in French was pretty imperative, I learned the correct phraseology - you'd not want some poor French chap inbound to his home field in his Jodel, who couldn't speak English, not to know that seven fast moving a/c were inbound to land in stream!
I've met and like them both - this is not personal! It's all a learning thing.
Luv
Stik
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No-one's perfect and a "word in one's ear" can just as easily be passed on by a private message, rather than in the form of a public dressing down. If done that way, one can avoid any embarrassment or bad feeling.