PFA Rally
Join Date: Apr 2002
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I think the real gain on the membership would be at the drive-in gate, as i would expect most intersted pilots to already be members!
It seems like a great marketing opportunity to me.
But, hey, we're getting all negative here again. My post was meant as praise for an event that I enjoyed, with a couple of minor points tacked on the bottom.
I think most things are being done well and the rally as a whole was a damn good advert for the PFA.
Hopefully thats the majority view.
It seems like a great marketing opportunity to me.
But, hey, we're getting all negative here again. My post was meant as praise for an event that I enjoyed, with a couple of minor points tacked on the bottom.
I think most things are being done well and the rally as a whole was a damn good advert for the PFA.
Hopefully thats the majority view.
Join Date: Apr 2004
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Peeking Duck...you are right indeed. Everyone answers the question with their surname. We don't say NAME? we say "pilots first name? or in my case "first name of pilot.?" It isn't a public school mentality you know.
You say the pilots want the facility to join the PFA at the Rally or more specifically at the Booking in tent. I have never been aware of that facility at that point in all the years I've been doing the job.
On a good day we have a rather long peak period with anything up to 20 pilots waiting in a line to book in at any one time . This can go on for nearly 2 hours and is very frustrating for them. Having your passengers by your side swells the numbers at the tent to, I think, an unacceptable level. I would hate to think what turmoil would ensue if we had people trying to fill in Membership application forms, looking for their Visa cards to find the numbers to put on the form and all the other attendant problems of congestion.
If, however a scheme could be devised to have this processed away for the said area I agree it would be an added bonus for us.
Have you anything to say to point us in a sensible direction re this please? Anything constuctive would be appreciated I'm sure.
Please feel free to PM me. Thanks.
You say the pilots want the facility to join the PFA at the Rally or more specifically at the Booking in tent. I have never been aware of that facility at that point in all the years I've been doing the job.
On a good day we have a rather long peak period with anything up to 20 pilots waiting in a line to book in at any one time . This can go on for nearly 2 hours and is very frustrating for them. Having your passengers by your side swells the numbers at the tent to, I think, an unacceptable level. I would hate to think what turmoil would ensue if we had people trying to fill in Membership application forms, looking for their Visa cards to find the numbers to put on the form and all the other attendant problems of congestion.
If, however a scheme could be devised to have this processed away for the said area I agree it would be an added bonus for us.
Have you anything to say to point us in a sensible direction re this please? Anything constuctive would be appreciated I'm sure.
Please feel free to PM me. Thanks.
Join Date: Jan 2002
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For what it's worth. I quite enjoyed it.
Yeah sure, the chips are expensive but so what.
The tat stalls weren't there......good job too!
There were plenty of a/c to see.
I arrived after lunch on Sunday and a family of four entry was £20
All in all, I would give it 8 out of 10.
Yeah sure, the chips are expensive but so what.
The tat stalls weren't there......good job too!
There were plenty of a/c to see.
I arrived after lunch on Sunday and a family of four entry was £20
All in all, I would give it 8 out of 10.
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: BRACKNELL
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If it cannot be at CONTROL then it would be easy to issue a voucher to be redeemed at the PFA tent once the pilot had renewed HIS/HER membership or decided to join as new member. A little of imagination is all that is called for to encourage members to renew and attract new blood.
I can remember discussions at Sywell EC years ago, as how to stop the haemorrhaging of membership year on year.
This would attract NEW membership and encourage existing members to rejoin.
If you think about it ; it is a great incentive for PILOTS to join and that is what is needed rather than non pilots.
In 2008 Permit for A/C will cease if JAR has it's way and it is PILOTS that will suffer most. We need to swell the ranks and produce a greater lobby for GA than we do at the moment.
That is what the PFA should be concentrating on. There is a strength in numbers. This rally did not help in this aim.
I am sure VODAPHONE signed up more customers than the PFA did
I can remember discussions at Sywell EC years ago, as how to stop the haemorrhaging of membership year on year.
This would attract NEW membership and encourage existing members to rejoin.
If you think about it ; it is a great incentive for PILOTS to join and that is what is needed rather than non pilots.
In 2008 Permit for A/C will cease if JAR has it's way and it is PILOTS that will suffer most. We need to swell the ranks and produce a greater lobby for GA than we do at the moment.
That is what the PFA should be concentrating on. There is a strength in numbers. This rally did not help in this aim.
I am sure VODAPHONE signed up more customers than the PFA did
Join Date: Apr 2004
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Thanks PD.
Just as an aside I bet the PFA signed up more new members than that bloke got rid of Teddy Bears. What he was doing there is anybodys guess. He looked SO out of place and got my vote for the "most bored person on the field"
Just as an aside I bet the PFA signed up more new members than that bloke got rid of Teddy Bears. What he was doing there is anybodys guess. He looked SO out of place and got my vote for the "most bored person on the field"
Join Date: Oct 1999
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The Guy with the teddys has been coming for yonks I remember him or rather the girls working the stand at Cranfield.
Don't forget that some of the concession holders fly as well. I got talking to a guy at one of the stands who said he flew a Warrior. I found out later he had the chipshop concession.
All in all it was a good rally for me, not the best but still good. Also it would have been a bit less blurry if I'd not found the Ogri MCC on Saturday night but that, is as they say a different story.
Don't forget that some of the concession holders fly as well. I got talking to a guy at one of the stands who said he flew a Warrior. I found out later he had the chipshop concession.
All in all it was a good rally for me, not the best but still good. Also it would have been a bit less blurry if I'd not found the Ogri MCC on Saturday night but that, is as they say a different story.
Join Date: Jun 2004
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In 2008 Permit for A/C will cease if JAR has it's way and it is PILOTS that will suffer most.
Join Date: Aug 2001
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MFT,
The attitude which seems to radiate from the PFA is very much the one which TonyR 'verbalises'
You kindly invite
but it seems that even those that do write on the PFA BB don't get listened to and those that don't agree with the 'official line' get marginalised by the people that are in charge of the PFA and like to do a bit of navel gazing.
From reading the PFA BB and for that matter any BB you only have to read the postings to understand that not all is well with the PFA.
I can only observe from these and the PFA magazine that there are a lot of issues floating about making a lot of people very unhappy on the one side and that there is not the ability or the willingness from the PFA to address these or at least communicate with its members and the aviation community at large (which should be potential members) whether and how these issues are going to be tackled.
Have no axe to grind, don't know anybody personally within the association, have no permit aircraft, just observe how all this unhappiness is unfolding in front of my eyes as a member, signed up by the way at the entrance to Cranfield some time ago, at the gate, paying with a bit of plastic, to enjoy the advertised, reduced rate.
FD
The attitude which seems to radiate from the PFA is very much the one which TonyR 'verbalises'
You kindly invite
If anyone out there who is not working the PFA Bulletin Board has anything tangible to input then please consider letting the PFA or one of its EC members know. All good suggestions will be gladly received.
From reading the PFA BB and for that matter any BB you only have to read the postings to understand that not all is well with the PFA.
I can only observe from these and the PFA magazine that there are a lot of issues floating about making a lot of people very unhappy on the one side and that there is not the ability or the willingness from the PFA to address these or at least communicate with its members and the aviation community at large (which should be potential members) whether and how these issues are going to be tackled.
Have no axe to grind, don't know anybody personally within the association, have no permit aircraft, just observe how all this unhappiness is unfolding in front of my eyes as a member, signed up by the way at the entrance to Cranfield some time ago, at the gate, paying with a bit of plastic, to enjoy the advertised, reduced rate.
FD
Join Date: Jun 2004
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Thanks FD
Thanks, I could'nt agree more, I have e-mailed the PFA today but did not even get a reply. Cest la Vie.
Virtually every A'c I have owned or been a group of has been either a PFA permit of CAA permit as now
I suppose I have 6 years left before we are railroaded into Cert that will wipe out most GA of the face of the map.
Virtually every A'c I have owned or been a group of has been either a PFA permit of CAA permit as now
I suppose I have 6 years left before we are railroaded into Cert that will wipe out most GA of the face of the map.
I was at Kemble on Saturday as a photographer/enthusiast/aviation fan and found the event to be quite reasonable.
I did email the PFA with a couple of comments though
a) Pleased that the gates opened early
b) Wristbands were a good idea and would have reduced queuing times
c) facilities/toilets were ok although more litter bins would have been useful
d) shuttle buses worked much better than last year
not so good things :
a) long queues to get out onto main A419 - no police presence
b) conflict with another major aviation event - ie Flying Legends
at Duxford (as per last year) Will the same happen next year ?
(Flying Legends next year is 9th & 10th July)
As for £25 entrance fee for non members - compared to RIAT / Legends / Farnborough etc - good value.
Have the PFA considered a 'associate' category of membership for those who do not fly/own aircraft etc but still want to feel part of an organisation that promotes GA.
I did email the PFA with a couple of comments though
a) Pleased that the gates opened early
b) Wristbands were a good idea and would have reduced queuing times
c) facilities/toilets were ok although more litter bins would have been useful
d) shuttle buses worked much better than last year
not so good things :
a) long queues to get out onto main A419 - no police presence
b) conflict with another major aviation event - ie Flying Legends
at Duxford (as per last year) Will the same happen next year ?
(Flying Legends next year is 9th & 10th July)
As for £25 entrance fee for non members - compared to RIAT / Legends / Farnborough etc - good value.
Have the PFA considered a 'associate' category of membership for those who do not fly/own aircraft etc but still want to feel part of an organisation that promotes GA.
Join Date: Apr 2004
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"I have e-mailed the PFA today but did not even get a reply."
You e-mailed on Monday and the PFA web page clearly states that the office is closed until Tuesday as all staff are at the Rally. How would you like to work all weekend and then have to clear up at Kemble on the Monday and be in the office on Tuesday!!
You e-mailed on Monday and the PFA web page clearly states that the office is closed until Tuesday as all staff are at the Rally. How would you like to work all weekend and then have to clear up at Kemble on the Monday and be in the office on Tuesday!!
Join Date: Feb 2002
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I don't think you can expect a reply for a few days, but the rallye is not really the problem.
There are so many issues with the PFA, I just don't think they will survive long term.
2008 is going to be a problem for all permit aircraft and we need a strong association to overcome this.
To me, even the PFA move from a GA friendly airfield to Turweston with it's restrictions seems to be typical of the decisions made by the EC.
Perhaps a new management team can change things but at the moment that does not look like happening.
Tony
There are so many issues with the PFA, I just don't think they will survive long term.
2008 is going to be a problem for all permit aircraft and we need a strong association to overcome this.
To me, even the PFA move from a GA friendly airfield to Turweston with it's restrictions seems to be typical of the decisions made by the EC.
Perhaps a new management team can change things but at the moment that does not look like happening.
Tony
Join Date: Mar 2000
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I have never owned a Permit type, nor do I expect to, but I had seriously considered joining the PFA up to a couple of years ago. In that regard, I think I am probably typical of many owner/pilots of "C of A" aircraft.
AOPA in the UK is (IMHO of course) something of a disaster, apparently doing little for the average pilot, at enormous cost. AOPA's role in the extending of JAR-FCL into the world of the private pilot should go down in aviation history as one of the biggest own-goals on record. At the very best, let's be charitable about it and suggest that it doesn't publicise all the good works it does particularly effectively.
By contrast, the PFA of two or more years ago presented an upbeat can-do image. It gave the impression of being in the same corner as the owner/pilot fighting against the issues of the day. Those issues are no-less important for owners of "spamcans", beset by Mode S, PRNAV, JAR-FCL, EASA, et al, and the PFA looked like a good bet to fight our corner too.
Since then, the public perception has slipped a bit. Public infighting, bitchiness on bulletin boards, the apparent inability to listen to the membership, and a Rally that appears to be losing direction even faster than it loses money.
It would be nice to see a revamped, re-energised PFA willing and able to represent the broad church of GA owner/pilots in this country that currently lack effective representation. We are too small an interest group to divide ourselves up into taildraggers, home-builders, microlights, aerobatics pilots, foreign tourers, people with instrument ratings etc etc etc
There are a lot of people out there with spending power waiting to be represented.
2D
AOPA in the UK is (IMHO of course) something of a disaster, apparently doing little for the average pilot, at enormous cost. AOPA's role in the extending of JAR-FCL into the world of the private pilot should go down in aviation history as one of the biggest own-goals on record. At the very best, let's be charitable about it and suggest that it doesn't publicise all the good works it does particularly effectively.
By contrast, the PFA of two or more years ago presented an upbeat can-do image. It gave the impression of being in the same corner as the owner/pilot fighting against the issues of the day. Those issues are no-less important for owners of "spamcans", beset by Mode S, PRNAV, JAR-FCL, EASA, et al, and the PFA looked like a good bet to fight our corner too.
Since then, the public perception has slipped a bit. Public infighting, bitchiness on bulletin boards, the apparent inability to listen to the membership, and a Rally that appears to be losing direction even faster than it loses money.
It would be nice to see a revamped, re-energised PFA willing and able to represent the broad church of GA owner/pilots in this country that currently lack effective representation. We are too small an interest group to divide ourselves up into taildraggers, home-builders, microlights, aerobatics pilots, foreign tourers, people with instrument ratings etc etc etc
There are a lot of people out there with spending power waiting to be represented.
2D
Join Date: Apr 2002
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hmm, non-member, and you only went to the rally because someone gave you a free ticket, then had a 45 minute whizz through.
Yep, that really gives you a strong platform to offer criticism from...
Yep, that really gives you a strong platform to offer criticism from...
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So long as the PFA wishes to attract non-members to the Rally and to welcome them as new recruits, there is room for legitimate feedback from non-members who attended.
I thought my comments were amongst the more constructive I've heard over the last few days scottish_ppl. Sorry you don't seem to like them.
2D
I thought my comments were amongst the more constructive I've heard over the last few days scottish_ppl. Sorry you don't seem to like them.
2D
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At the "grass roots" level the PFA can be fantastic, as evidenced by the PFA engineer who turned out at short notice when we needed some work signed off and then refused any payment for his services (and in my, admittedly limited, experience his commendable dedication to the aims of the organization is commonplace). However, I do have some concerns about the choices being made at a senior level and I think 2Ds has got it just about right.
And I am a PFA member.
And I am a PFA member.
Join Date: Sep 2002
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hmm, non-member, and you only went to the rally because someone gave you a free ticket, then had a 45 minute whizz through.
You state exactly what happens when the Rally fails to deliver something that people will enjoy, want to go to, and be willing to pay for.
Having been given the evidence that amply demonstrates that the Rally failed to deliver you comment
Yep, that really gives you a strong platform to offer criticism from...
I am also a member of the PFA and was there for all three days. I agree with 2Ds and Evo.
(see you tomorrow Evo!)
Mike
The Original Whirly
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It would be nice to see a revamped, re-energised PFA willing and able to represent the broad church of GA owner/pilots in this country that currently lack effective representation. We are too small an interest group to divide ourselves up into taildraggers, home-builders, microlights, aerobatics pilots, foreign tourers, people with instrument ratings etc etc etc
And I am a PFA member, though I've no idea why, seeing as all it gets me is a magazine with nothing in it I can't get in the other mags, and cheap entrance to the Rally. Hmmm...this thread is making me wonder whether I should tear up that renewal letter on my desk.....
Join Date: Dec 1999
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Glad you all (well, most of you!) enjoyed it. I stopped attending some years back when the PFA started charging pilots & members to fly-in with their aircraft. I'm not that tight, but these are the same pilots and aircraft that if they didnt land, would effectively end the spectacle of lots of aeroplanes and the PFA wouldnt have a rally! £100.00 for our foreign friends to land? No wonder they're not coming back!
I thought that was still the case???
Quote from Peeking Duck - I once ran the Berkshire strut with over 200 members and gave that up, as the PFA was more concerned then with in house politics rather than flying.