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Senis Semper Fidelis
Joined: Feb 2001
Posts: 1,288
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From: Lancashire U K
Bose-X and CiM
Great to fly to one end of the Country, and then fly low, low enough to make others think your going in, our initial thoughts were concern for the A/c and occupants who we thought had a life threatening problem with the low height being flown, in fact two of the Pilot occupants of the Heli did think we were going to see a sad event , had that been the case we would have been first on site and helping or offering immediate assistance, but when the A/c ddropped lower then started to fly away our concern quiet rightly turned to anger at the situation that could have been, I think a three bladed rotor driven by a 800Shp turbine would chew very easily through the bottom of any PA28 or whatever, sadly though in the process live would be extinguished, all because some body thought Class G airspace allowed you to fly where you liked.
As for your comments Bose-X I ll put it to you, physical stuff has never been a worry to me I can give it , but whats more I can take it, what I can also take is critisism if I F**ck up, but it seems that you people cannot, it seems that you will defend a pilot who puts other at risk.
If you really want we that is the three pilot on the heli concerned will file an airprox, we also have now two people at the Hotel who saw what happened, that makes five people who could help to hang some-one, but I would rather talk to some-one rather than inccur the power of the authorities. tell what you would do?
Great to fly to one end of the Country, and then fly low, low enough to make others think your going in, our initial thoughts were concern for the A/c and occupants who we thought had a life threatening problem with the low height being flown, in fact two of the Pilot occupants of the Heli did think we were going to see a sad event , had that been the case we would have been first on site and helping or offering immediate assistance, but when the A/c ddropped lower then started to fly away our concern quiet rightly turned to anger at the situation that could have been, I think a three bladed rotor driven by a 800Shp turbine would chew very easily through the bottom of any PA28 or whatever, sadly though in the process live would be extinguished, all because some body thought Class G airspace allowed you to fly where you liked.
As for your comments Bose-X I ll put it to you, physical stuff has never been a worry to me I can give it , but whats more I can take it, what I can also take is critisism if I F**ck up, but it seems that you people cannot, it seems that you will defend a pilot who puts other at risk.
If you really want we that is the three pilot on the heli concerned will file an airprox, we also have now two people at the Hotel who saw what happened, that makes five people who could help to hang some-one, but I would rather talk to some-one rather than inccur the power of the authorities. tell what you would do?
The Original Whirly
Joined: Feb 1999
Aviation Qualifications: CPL
Posts: 4,327
Likes: 2
From: Belper, Derbyshire, UK
I'm totally mystified as to the attitudes of some people on this thread.
VFRpilotpb thought he saw someone flying dangerously low, and wants to talk to the person concerned. Well, either he did or he didn't. If he did, wanting to talk to them seems a reasonable reaction, (while wanting to kill them seems quite understandable and human too). If he didn't - well, so he got the height wrong. Doesn't sound like a flaming/hanging offence to me. But while it's hard to estimate if someone was below 1500 ft (famously proved in some court case when someone was accused of breaking the congested area rule), you can tell if they're at around 100 or 200 ft. And even in Class G airspace we do have a 500 ft rule...any of you ever heard of it?
Vfrpilotpb posted here a couple of days before someone on Rotorheads made the unfortunate comment about "lesser mortals". I suspect they meant it as an in joke. We're like that in Rotorheads. It's probably a reaction to all the comments we put up with about helicopters...so ugly the earth repels them etc etc etc. But that's hardly a hanging offence either.
Maybe we should stop the name calling and discuss whether the best thing to do is:
a) Try to find the pilot and talk to him/her.
b) File an airprox
c) Do nothing, and accept that there are idiots around.
If I were Vfrpilotpb, I'd do both 1 and 2. I'd let others decide if I was right or wrong, after I'd tried to do something about it. I would certainly do SOMETHING! Idiots in the air are dangerous!!!!!
VFRpilotpb thought he saw someone flying dangerously low, and wants to talk to the person concerned. Well, either he did or he didn't. If he did, wanting to talk to them seems a reasonable reaction, (while wanting to kill them seems quite understandable and human too). If he didn't - well, so he got the height wrong. Doesn't sound like a flaming/hanging offence to me. But while it's hard to estimate if someone was below 1500 ft (famously proved in some court case when someone was accused of breaking the congested area rule), you can tell if they're at around 100 or 200 ft. And even in Class G airspace we do have a 500 ft rule...any of you ever heard of it?
Vfrpilotpb posted here a couple of days before someone on Rotorheads made the unfortunate comment about "lesser mortals". I suspect they meant it as an in joke. We're like that in Rotorheads. It's probably a reaction to all the comments we put up with about helicopters...so ugly the earth repels them etc etc etc. But that's hardly a hanging offence either.
Maybe we should stop the name calling and discuss whether the best thing to do is:
a) Try to find the pilot and talk to him/her.
b) File an airprox
c) Do nothing, and accept that there are idiots around.
If I were Vfrpilotpb, I'd do both 1 and 2. I'd let others decide if I was right or wrong, after I'd tried to do something about it. I would certainly do SOMETHING! Idiots in the air are dangerous!!!!!
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 321
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From: Bristol and Forest of Dean
Hi Chaps,
What I can't understand is if five people on the ground saw the aircraft flying at less than 100' - how come no-one could see the registration or even recognise the aircraft type?
Nah... there is more to this story than meets the eye. Frankly, someone is not telling the truth here and I'm not sure that an internet forum is the right place for this. I think the moderator should delete this thread
Kingy
What I can't understand is if five people on the ground saw the aircraft flying at less than 100' - how come no-one could see the registration or even recognise the aircraft type?
Nah... there is more to this story than meets the eye. Frankly, someone is not telling the truth here and I'm not sure that an internet forum is the right place for this. I think the moderator should delete this thread
Kingy
Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 0
Likes: 0
From: UK,Twighlight Zone
Whirly, I like you also fly Rotary so am not commenting from a FW view only.
My point was that VFRPB started this with the witch hunt and the threats of violence. Even his last comment is full of macho hardman bul!!!! of how he can give and take a "kicking". Who cares?
My point was if he did not like what he saw file an airprox not threaten to "sort out" the culprit on an internet forum!
And my post neither criticised OR condoned the alleged infringer, which is my point, we DO NOT know ALL the facts so should not be making comment. Leave it to the airprox boys or VFR can write it down to experiance. Either way threating to do someone over is hardly mature beahaviour. Personally I question someones judgement as an aviator who is so hot headed and apparantly violence prone. What next?
My point was that VFRPB started this with the witch hunt and the threats of violence. Even his last comment is full of macho hardman bul!!!! of how he can give and take a "kicking". Who cares?
My point was if he did not like what he saw file an airprox not threaten to "sort out" the culprit on an internet forum!
And my post neither criticised OR condoned the alleged infringer, which is my point, we DO NOT know ALL the facts so should not be making comment. Leave it to the airprox boys or VFR can write it down to experiance. Either way threating to do someone over is hardly mature beahaviour. Personally I question someones judgement as an aviator who is so hot headed and apparantly violence prone. What next?
Helicopter Pilots Get It Up Quicker
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 885
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From:
... I ve also discovered that rotary pilots views aren't welcome in this forum if it opposes a FW pilots' view! 
...wish I was that good I could see and avoid ANY other traffic at that altitude.
... I don't reconise most FW types or a lot of rotary types for that matter - why should a member of the public or 3 pilots who think they are about to die? As for the reg - again if you thought this machine was going to crash would you be trying to read the reg?
VFRPB gets slated for a 'cavalier' and 'threatening' attitude but are CIM remarks and many others really constructive? Or just as reactionary as the way VFRPB feels at a potential life threating incident?
HAD they collided how many here would have slated the FW pilot instead of defending him/her?
Perhaps VFRPB is concerned about bad press we rotary pilots already get. When was the last time a light aircraft incident/accident made national news? Every helicopter incident/accident does... check out the AAIB reports for the ratio of FW to rotary incidents!
Can I share you bunker VFRPB?
PW
The A/c flew in from the Barrow In Furnace direction, passed over the Swan at roughly 80/100 ft then had to climb to miss the trees at the rivers edge, after the trees, it then came down to around 30/40ft from the lakes surface.
What I can't understand is if five people on the ground saw the aircraft flying at less than 100' - how come no-one could see the registration or even recognise the aircraft type?
VFRPB gets slated for a 'cavalier' and 'threatening' attitude but are CIM remarks and many others really constructive? Or just as reactionary as the way VFRPB feels at a potential life threating incident?
HAD they collided how many here would have slated the FW pilot instead of defending him/her?
Perhaps VFRPB is concerned about bad press we rotary pilots already get. When was the last time a light aircraft incident/accident made national news? Every helicopter incident/accident does... check out the AAIB reports for the ratio of FW to rotary incidents!
Can I share you bunker VFRPB?
PW
Joined: Sep 2002
Posts: 218
Likes: 0
From: Pfffft
I know it has been mentioned but just to double check are you sure it wasn't one of these all white, low wing, fixed undercarriage aircraft?
ASI
ASI
Why do it if it's not fun?
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 4,782
Likes: 12
From: Bournemouth
I've also discovered that rotary pilots views aren't welcome in this forum if it opposes a FW pilots' view!
In this particular case, the majority view is that violence will not solve the problem. I challenge anyone, fixed wing or rotary, to give me a good counter-argument to that.
There is a secondary matter of whether the fixed-wing pilot was even doing anything wrong, and since very few of us were actually there, we're not in a position to comment. Certainly from Vfrpilotpb's description of the events, what occured was both dangerous and illegal. I don't know whether there's another side to the story, but whether there is or not, violence is still not the answer.
I've been on both ends of flying c0ck-ups involving other pilots - although, fortunately, nothing life-threatening. Where it's been possible, a friendly chat in the bar after everything's been tied down has always resolved it (usually by one party apologising). When I don't know who the other pilot is, the friendly chat in the bar isn't possible, and it's best to just put it down to experience - although I would have no hesitation filing an MOR or Airprox if the situation warranted it.
FFF
--------------
Joined: Jul 2003
Posts: 65
Likes: 0
From: UK
The Swan at Newby bridge is a very well known watering hole possible not down south, but up here int North it is well known and handles a lot of Heli traffic from visitors.
http://www.pprune.org/forums/showthr...art+amendments
Spike
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 321
Likes: 0
From: Bristol and Forest of Dean
Pilotwolf,...
Hi Mate I accept that. The point I was trying to make was that Vfrpilotpb stated that there were three PPLs in the chopper at the time and looking at C-I-Ms profile he says he flys PA 28s. Surely one of the pilots would recognise a PA28 from that range - one of the most numerous light aircraft in the country... I'm betting you could - think about it.
Also, If vfrpilotpb thought the low flying aircraft may be in difficulties why did he not transmit a PAN call?. A call on 121.5 would be picked up by someone even if transmited from the ground and If the F/W pilot was breaking the law the follow up action to a PAN call would start the ball rolling much quicker than and airprox report...
On a lighter note perhaps we could settle this whole silly business with a F/W vs Heli tug 'o' war or something - we'll whip your weak VTOL arses any day ....
Kingy
... I don't reconise most FW types or a lot of rotary types for that matter
Also, If vfrpilotpb thought the low flying aircraft may be in difficulties why did he not transmit a PAN call?. A call on 121.5 would be picked up by someone even if transmited from the ground and If the F/W pilot was breaking the law the follow up action to a PAN call would start the ball rolling much quicker than and airprox report...
On a lighter note perhaps we could settle this whole silly business with a F/W vs Heli tug 'o' war or something - we'll whip your weak VTOL arses any day ....
Kingy
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 2,414
Likes: 2
From: Europe
VFRPB,
I am sure that nobody on this forum or anywhere on PPRuNe would not be sympathetic to the feeling of shock and terror which you obviously experienced after the incident.
Although everyone after such an incident would be upset and very angry, if for no other reason than the fear they experienced, all fair and good.
However to be threatening, as you are in your posts, days after the event seems a bit unneccesary. With this you have done very little to endear yourself.
I see from looking at your profile that after flying one of your other hobbies is shooting. Scary stuff.
PW
That would indeed be a good plan and maybe you can give some positive remarks on why the accident rate for helos is so bad on an hour to hour basis compared to FW rates.
I think one of the reasons why helo accidents attract more attention than spam can accidents has more to do with the affluence of people involved driving the 'vehicle' than the mode of transport. May be helo drivers are richer and therefore more known or important!
FD
I am sure that nobody on this forum or anywhere on PPRuNe would not be sympathetic to the feeling of shock and terror which you obviously experienced after the incident.
Although everyone after such an incident would be upset and very angry, if for no other reason than the fear they experienced, all fair and good.
However to be threatening, as you are in your posts, days after the event seems a bit unneccesary. With this you have done very little to endear yourself.
I see from looking at your profile that after flying one of your other hobbies is shooting. Scary stuff.
PW
Perhaps VFRPB is concerned about bad press we rotary pilots already get. When was the last time a light aircraft incident/accident made national news? Every helicopter incident/accident does... check out the AAIB reports for the ratio of FW to rotary incidents!
I think one of the reasons why helo accidents attract more attention than spam can accidents has more to do with the affluence of people involved driving the 'vehicle' than the mode of transport. May be helo drivers are richer and therefore more known or important!
FD
Helicopter Pilots Get It Up Quicker
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 885
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From:
KINGY
Hmm... not sure I d agree - just ask AB!
FD
I think that depends on what you include in the statistics and how they are presented. Would tend to agree about the type of people who fly them and also more tend to be fatal?
Isn't that what we rotary pilots said in the first place?!
Hmm... not sure I d agree - just ask AB!
FD
I think that depends on what you include in the statistics and how they are presented. Would tend to agree about the type of people who fly them and also more tend to be fatal?
May be helo drivers are richer and therefore more known or important!
Thread Starter
Senis Semper Fidelis
Joined: Feb 2001
Posts: 1,288
Likes: 0
From: Lancashire U K
ASI.
None of those!
Spike,
Good idea, I have already sent an E to them siting this incident as my reason for inclusion of the Swan!
To the rest who have taken the trouble to answer
It may be non PC to offer to squeeze some nuts, suppose I should have offered to swing handbags, from 80ft.
I am sorry that I dont know the names of the aircraft you chaps fly, but the A/c was very similar to a 4 seat Piper, my Bro used to fly, my interest is Rotory.
What I cant understand though is the want and vitriol to protect and close ranks around someone who flew low over that area, which incidently is also the turning point for low level runs of fast trainers and Fat Albert to then fly up the length of Windermere.
None of those!
Spike,
Good idea, I have already sent an E to them siting this incident as my reason for inclusion of the Swan!
To the rest who have taken the trouble to answer
It may be non PC to offer to squeeze some nuts, suppose I should have offered to swing handbags, from 80ft.
I am sorry that I dont know the names of the aircraft you chaps fly, but the A/c was very similar to a 4 seat Piper, my Bro used to fly, my interest is Rotory.
What I cant understand though is the want and vitriol to protect and close ranks around someone who flew low over that area, which incidently is also the turning point for low level runs of fast trainers and Fat Albert to then fly up the length of Windermere.
Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 0
Likes: 0
From: UK,Twighlight Zone
With pseudo wealth comes arrogance, with real wealth comes humbleness.........
Having loads of money and impressing others with it to flatter our own egos does not neccessarily make you a better pilot.
In fact as the statistic seems to show maybe even the opposite possibly!
Having loads of money and impressing others with it to flatter our own egos does not neccessarily make you a better pilot.
In fact as the statistic seems to show maybe even the opposite possibly!
Joined: Dec 1999
Posts: 510
Likes: 0
From: Gone.........for good this time.
Several options here:
1. Mandatory Occurence Report to the CAA
2. Airprox Report to the Airprox Board/Bored?
3. Pistols at dawn, North v South, Northern 'ard men v Southern nancy boys?
4. Fisticuffs? Same teams, but smeared in Swarfega
4. F/W v Rotary tug of war contest?
5. F/W v Rotary drinking contest?
6. Forget the whole thing and go down the pub?
7. Horse's head in the F/W pilot's bed?
8. F/W 'Balbo' flying past the said helipad at Newby Bridge, mooning out of the cockpit windows en masse (at a suitably low-ish height/Altitude/FL* (*Delete where applicable)
9. Group of F/W pilots descend en-masse to the pub at Newby Bridge and have a few shandies, then go for a curry?
Any more suggestions just to lighten this thread up a bit?
I'll get me coat......
1. Mandatory Occurence Report to the CAA
2. Airprox Report to the Airprox Board/Bored?
3. Pistols at dawn, North v South, Northern 'ard men v Southern nancy boys?
4. Fisticuffs? Same teams, but smeared in Swarfega
4. F/W v Rotary tug of war contest?
5. F/W v Rotary drinking contest?
6. Forget the whole thing and go down the pub?
7. Horse's head in the F/W pilot's bed?
8. F/W 'Balbo' flying past the said helipad at Newby Bridge, mooning out of the cockpit windows en masse (at a suitably low-ish height/Altitude/FL* (*Delete where applicable)
9. Group of F/W pilots descend en-masse to the pub at Newby Bridge and have a few shandies, then go for a curry?
Any more suggestions just to lighten this thread up a bit?
I'll get me coat......
