Finnair Embraer 190/A350
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Finnair Embraer 190/A350
Good afternoon,
Normally I fly PEK-LHR-MAN with British Airways, a routine I'm familiar with, it is usually a 747. Never really been a nervous flier before.
Recently, I took the decision to instead fly Shanghai PVG-HEL-MAN with Finnair because I wanted to avoid the possible Heathrow computer problems and BA strike action that could have affected my flight.
However, I was really not happy flying after we spent 4 hours boarded and left on the tarmac at PVG before flying to Helsinki, where I missed my Manchester connection and had to stay overnight. During the time waiting for departure we were given very little information and the air conditioning system cut out and had to be worked on before we could depart. I spent a lot of that time worrying and actually wishing I could disembark and get a different flight (however irrational this is)
I have now discovered I am seriously worried about the return journey and am even having nightmares about it, I would just like to ask what people's professional opinions about Finnair and these aircraft are?
I know the A350 has no accidents, but it is a new aircraft. The Embraer seemed to take very sharp turns in the air, something I'm really not used to.
I also know that Finnair hasn't had a hull loss accident since 1963, but this airline flies many fewer routes than British Airways or American or the really big airlines. Basically, reading statistics isn't really putting my mind at rest about this flight.
Thanks for advice
Normally I fly PEK-LHR-MAN with British Airways, a routine I'm familiar with, it is usually a 747. Never really been a nervous flier before.
Recently, I took the decision to instead fly Shanghai PVG-HEL-MAN with Finnair because I wanted to avoid the possible Heathrow computer problems and BA strike action that could have affected my flight.
However, I was really not happy flying after we spent 4 hours boarded and left on the tarmac at PVG before flying to Helsinki, where I missed my Manchester connection and had to stay overnight. During the time waiting for departure we were given very little information and the air conditioning system cut out and had to be worked on before we could depart. I spent a lot of that time worrying and actually wishing I could disembark and get a different flight (however irrational this is)
I have now discovered I am seriously worried about the return journey and am even having nightmares about it, I would just like to ask what people's professional opinions about Finnair and these aircraft are?
I know the A350 has no accidents, but it is a new aircraft. The Embraer seemed to take very sharp turns in the air, something I'm really not used to.
I also know that Finnair hasn't had a hull loss accident since 1963, but this airline flies many fewer routes than British Airways or American or the really big airlines. Basically, reading statistics isn't really putting my mind at rest about this flight.
Thanks for advice
Son of Slot
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Hi UKTraveller1 and welcome to the 'cabin' forum of PPRuNe.
Firstly, it sounds like you have had very bad luck as Finnair has a good reputation. Yes, it is a smaller carrier but the nation are known for precision. So I think that you had a communications failure from the flight deck and cabin manager, as opposed to a company wide problem. On the other hand, BA being big does land up in the newspaper a lot and it's computer problem was more than significant.
You are on a route that I personally do not know but I'm sure that others will be along shortly to give you first hand advice.
Firstly, it sounds like you have had very bad luck as Finnair has a good reputation. Yes, it is a smaller carrier but the nation are known for precision. So I think that you had a communications failure from the flight deck and cabin manager, as opposed to a company wide problem. On the other hand, BA being big does land up in the newspaper a lot and it's computer problem was more than significant.
You are on a route that I personally do not know but I'm sure that others will be along shortly to give you first hand advice.
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I have flown and would never hesitate to fly with Finnair. Yes, the A350 is relatively new but it's built by a well known and respected manufacturer with years of experience in the industry. I have flown on the the EMB-190, but my experiences have been more with the smaller EMB-175. They are good aeroplanes with a good record. I think that any smaller jet will give you the perception of "sharper" manoeuvres in contrast to heavier jets. Back in the 60s and 70s my father made hundreds of flights with Finnair in all weathers and always spoke very highly of them.
I like Embraers. Solid pieces of work. Have flown them a bit in Europe. Their small size is what makes the turns seem sharp. You're on a winner with the Scandinavians. Nothing to worry about.
Your experience could have been with any other carrier, but one upside of connecting through London is that it is onto a service with multiple departures a day, so if you had experienced such an inbound delay they can just transfer you to a later Manchester flight. That's not possible where there is only a 1:1 connecting possibility. It's something to be even more borne in mind where flights are less than daily, or where your reservation options include the last of the day.
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I've flown a lot with Finnair and worked with Finns. Trust me, in my experience, everything they do is done with quality and, as someone else here has already said, precision. The airline is a thoroughly reliable operation.
BTW, Finns do NOT like to be called Scandinavian. The correct term is "Nordic."
BTW, Finns do NOT like to be called Scandinavian. The correct term is "Nordic."
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Just booked Bangkok Helsinki Chicago on Finnair. Both sectors are A350s. Booked due to recommendations.
Onward flight to Memphis on a pencil jet.
Suspect will be infinitely better than most other options
Onward flight to Memphis on a pencil jet.
Suspect will be infinitely better than most other options
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Thanks for all your heartening replies so far.
I have been trying to educate myself about air travel but still have a few questions at the back of my mind.
The distance from the populated west of Russia until you get to China is huge. I see Irkutsk airport on the map but nothing either side for huge distances. What would happen if the plane ran into difficulties and was nowhere near this airport?
PVG seems an even busier airport than PEK looking at movements on flightradar. What do those of you who travel to China frequently think about Chinese Air Traffic Control and their ability to handle large numbers of flights? I normally travel by train in China because the railways are so good.
Any pilots here fly the A350 frequently? What do you think of it? I have read some pilots are unhappy with the A380, another recently made Airbus plane.
I have been trying to educate myself about air travel but still have a few questions at the back of my mind.
The distance from the populated west of Russia until you get to China is huge. I see Irkutsk airport on the map but nothing either side for huge distances. What would happen if the plane ran into difficulties and was nowhere near this airport?
PVG seems an even busier airport than PEK looking at movements on flightradar. What do those of you who travel to China frequently think about Chinese Air Traffic Control and their ability to handle large numbers of flights? I normally travel by train in China because the railways are so good.
Any pilots here fly the A350 frequently? What do you think of it? I have read some pilots are unhappy with the A380, another recently made Airbus plane.
With due respect you are maybe looking for problems where there are none. I don't think pilots who are unhappy with the plane they fly mean it from a safety point of view. In fact I'm not sure what that could mean. You're mentioning Airbus a lot. They are one of the two major producers of jets in the world and they are as safe as houses at the end of the day.
China ATC, according to a friend who flew there regularly, is the same as everywhere else. They simply cannot afford not to be. Chinese people no more than any other group would not accept anything less.
Again, with due respect, I think you are looking for problems where there simply aren't any. Sit back and relax. Everyone from the engineers to pilots to ATC are working to get you from A to B safely. And they do so all the time.
Bar a catastrophic failure, something 250 times more likely to happen to you crossing the road, you have absolutely nothing to worry about.
China ATC, according to a friend who flew there regularly, is the same as everywhere else. They simply cannot afford not to be. Chinese people no more than any other group would not accept anything less.
Again, with due respect, I think you are looking for problems where there simply aren't any. Sit back and relax. Everyone from the engineers to pilots to ATC are working to get you from A to B safely. And they do so all the time.
Bar a catastrophic failure, something 250 times more likely to happen to you crossing the road, you have absolutely nothing to worry about.
There have been just one or two precautionary landings there over the years, typically you would be bussed into the terminal, given all sorts of Russian food, and meanwhile Finnair would dispatch another aircraft from Helsinki to pick you up within a few hours and take you on. Don't forget to say "spasibo" to your temporary hosts as you leave, and if they offer you a farewell vodka shot, down it in one
On Sunday I took a Finnair A350-900 from Helsinki to KIX, and funnily enough found myself sitting next to an Embraer pilot from another airline.
Normally I use Korean Air and have often done the Heathrow - Seoul - Japan route, actually about 130 times. It was interesting to observe some little differences.
Firstly, may I say that Finnair were very professional and the aircraft was extremely smooth, almost as if the pilot was deliberately avoiding turbulance.
My only complaints were with the electronics and sound systems, including the entertainment screens, most of which buffered or stayed frozen for much of the night. There was no-one on the flight who understood them. My companion mentioned that some airlines give compensation/refunds as entertainment is seen as part of the package. No separate hand controller meant that I could not even switch on my reading light. All this on a relatively new plane. We sat in darkness for about six hours with the blue Exit light "BONG" frightening us awake every few minutes. Announcements were also way too loud, indeed painful on the ears. My by-now friend said it should have been simple for the crew to twizzle the volume down a tad.
Normally I use Korean Air and have often done the Heathrow - Seoul - Japan route, actually about 130 times. It was interesting to observe some little differences.
Firstly, may I say that Finnair were very professional and the aircraft was extremely smooth, almost as if the pilot was deliberately avoiding turbulance.
My only complaints were with the electronics and sound systems, including the entertainment screens, most of which buffered or stayed frozen for much of the night. There was no-one on the flight who understood them. My companion mentioned that some airlines give compensation/refunds as entertainment is seen as part of the package. No separate hand controller meant that I could not even switch on my reading light. All this on a relatively new plane. We sat in darkness for about six hours with the blue Exit light "BONG" frightening us awake every few minutes. Announcements were also way too loud, indeed painful on the ears. My by-now friend said it should have been simple for the crew to twizzle the volume down a tad.
Oh, I mention this because the Embraer pilot, who flew 747s and DC10s when he was younger, said he will be captaining A350s (and Boeing 787s) for his airline in a year or two. I guess he was interested to see one from the SLF angle, even in cattle class.
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UKTraveller 1
I have also done quite a bit of time over norther Russia and as other have said there is not really an issue in finding places to put down in an emergancy. One of my colleagues actually had this with a medical one and ended up in Irtusk on his way west but it is a reare event. I actually quite like the route in high summer when sitting on LH side, as you almost see two sun sets and a sun rise due to curvature of earth, and then in winter the Aurora. These are on the route Man to Tokyo which I normally use Lufthansa for via Frankfurt. Have heard good reports of Finnair but prefer to pick up points with LH.
Regards
Mr Mac
I have also done quite a bit of time over norther Russia and as other have said there is not really an issue in finding places to put down in an emergancy. One of my colleagues actually had this with a medical one and ended up in Irtusk on his way west but it is a reare event. I actually quite like the route in high summer when sitting on LH side, as you almost see two sun sets and a sun rise due to curvature of earth, and then in winter the Aurora. These are on the route Man to Tokyo which I normally use Lufthansa for via Frankfurt. Have heard good reports of Finnair but prefer to pick up points with LH.
Regards
Mr Mac
N4790P
Added bonus was Finnish Gin! Rather good.
