How about a fine/prison for taking luggage down the slide?
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 4,369
Likes: 3
From: UK.
I can scarcely believe some of the comments on here:
The selfish who think that their few dollars worth of hand baggage is worth someone else's life.
The stupid who absolutely HAVE to take their laptop because it isn't backed up.
The ignorant who ignore the advice of experienced professional aviators.
You really need to have to take a look at yourselves, folks.
The selfish who think that their few dollars worth of hand baggage is worth someone else's life.
The stupid who absolutely HAVE to take their laptop because it isn't backed up.
The ignorant who ignore the advice of experienced professional aviators.
You really need to have to take a look at yourselves, folks.
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 50
Likes: 0
From: Germany (SLF)
Then the very same troublemakers will block the aisles struggling to open the overhead bins. Plus there is still hand baggage under the seat in front of you.
Joined: Jun 2012
Posts: 66
Likes: 0
From: UK
Joined: Jun 2012
Posts: 66
Likes: 0
From: UK
Rather depends where you are. I know people who still haven't been recompensed for stuff that never re-emerged from the fiasco in the opening of terminal 5.
Then there are some american airports where a job as a baggage handler is essentially an all-you-can-eat buffet for the light-fingered. The worst I've experienced would be Chicago, as it seems have some others:
But you airline chappies really need to get your acts together and sing from a single hymn book. On the one hand we have harrumphing aircrew sneering at their customers for having the temerity to bring so much as a wallet into the cabin rather than putting it in the hold. On the other hand your employers make it clear at every stage of the ticket purchasing process that they don't want our stinking luggage cluttering up the hold and taking up space that they can use for paying freight (needed to pay for the 5-star hotel parties for the cabin crew, I expect) so we if we actually want to take more than the clothes we stand in we must either pack it into cabin baggage or take out a mortgage to put it in the hold.
Once you have your own house in order, and have got your stories straight then (and only then) will all this unseemly whining at the people who pay your salaries be anything less than childish tantrums.
€0.04 supplied,
PDR
Then there are some american airports where a job as a baggage handler is essentially an all-you-can-eat buffet for the light-fingered. The worst I've experienced would be Chicago, as it seems have some others:
But you airline chappies really need to get your acts together and sing from a single hymn book. On the one hand we have harrumphing aircrew sneering at their customers for having the temerity to bring so much as a wallet into the cabin rather than putting it in the hold. On the other hand your employers make it clear at every stage of the ticket purchasing process that they don't want our stinking luggage cluttering up the hold and taking up space that they can use for paying freight (needed to pay for the 5-star hotel parties for the cabin crew, I expect) so we if we actually want to take more than the clothes we stand in we must either pack it into cabin baggage or take out a mortgage to put it in the hold.
Once you have your own house in order, and have got your stories straight then (and only then) will all this unseemly whining at the people who pay your salaries be anything less than childish tantrums.
€0.04 supplied,
PDR
If you have something valuable that can't be carried as cabin baggage on a scheduled flight then you either Fedex it or charter a plane.
Last edited by PAX_Britannica; 5th August 2016 at 14:44. Reason: sp.
Joined: Sep 2001
Posts: 260
Likes: 5
From: Connecticut, USA
I look at it this way. The "must save" possessions that most people board with (wallet, phone, papers, meds, laptop) would usually fit into a laptop bag or decent sized purse. That could be stowed under the seat, and to be honest, something that size and weight really isn't going to impede the evacuation much.
The real problem is these 50 pound overstuffed suitcases that just barely fit into the overhead to begin with - probably packed with a week's worth of clothes and whatever other stuff the owners could get into them. If you get those suitcases into the hold, you've solved most of the problem. Now, yes, there's still going to be a few people with expensive camera equipment or musical instruments or the like, but that's more likely to be the exception.
How do you get the bulky suitcases into the hold? Maybe offer a ticket discount if you check any bags over a certain size, rather than charging extra for them. I still think the airlines created much of this problem when they got greedy and started charging a fortune for checked bags.
The real problem is these 50 pound overstuffed suitcases that just barely fit into the overhead to begin with - probably packed with a week's worth of clothes and whatever other stuff the owners could get into them. If you get those suitcases into the hold, you've solved most of the problem. Now, yes, there's still going to be a few people with expensive camera equipment or musical instruments or the like, but that's more likely to be the exception.
How do you get the bulky suitcases into the hold? Maybe offer a ticket discount if you check any bags over a certain size, rather than charging extra for them. I still think the airlines created much of this problem when they got greedy and started charging a fortune for checked bags.
Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 5
Likes: 0
From: England
I have been through an emergency evucation, and ever since have used an AmeriBag, sometimes called a "Healthy Back Bag", to hold the essentials.
Mine is leather, and has a patina from over 20 years use, and is highly recommended.
AF
Mine is leather, and has a patina from over 20 years use, and is highly recommended.
AF
Joined: Aug 2000
Posts: 1,180
Likes: 132
From: Here and there.
Fair point Pax Britannia, I based it upon my flight profile Heathrow > Hong Kong (week of work), Hong Kong > Dubai (week of rest), Dubai > Heathrow rather than looking at it as Fly out and return same week. 
However you look at it though, it is still unacceptable losses and airlines really do need to do more.
Even though passenger numbers are rising, thankfully the instances of baggage mishandling are gradually reducing. I certainly wouldn't trust my camera gear to the hold unless I knew I would be compensated for loss at replacement cost.
Couple that with the fact that I need the gear for the Job in China then I am driven to keep that gear with me.
- Would I grab my bag in the event of an emergency evac? "Never".
- Would I entrust it to the baggage handlers and check it into the hold? An equally resounding "Never".
In the first instance I would be thankful to be out fit and well, and able to fight a claim on the grounds that I did as instructed by one of the airline staff.
In the second instance I would expect a battle for compensation because it was "my choice to put it in the hold" and the airline shirks it's responsibilities.
However you look at it though, it is still unacceptable losses and airlines really do need to do more.
Even though passenger numbers are rising, thankfully the instances of baggage mishandling are gradually reducing. I certainly wouldn't trust my camera gear to the hold unless I knew I would be compensated for loss at replacement cost.
Couple that with the fact that I need the gear for the Job in China then I am driven to keep that gear with me.
- Would I grab my bag in the event of an emergency evac? "Never".
- Would I entrust it to the baggage handlers and check it into the hold? An equally resounding "Never".
In the first instance I would be thankful to be out fit and well, and able to fight a claim on the grounds that I did as instructed by one of the airline staff.
In the second instance I would expect a battle for compensation because it was "my choice to put it in the hold" and the airline shirks it's responsibilities.
Joined: Jun 2013
Posts: 153
Likes: 0
From: ZRH
I feel for the cabin crew.They're trying to look professional and friendly, obligatory smiles every 10 seconds whilst swinging half their body weight over their heads and bouncing them into the bins. All whilst buttoned into a tight outfit, balancing on heels and keeping theirs hats straight.
Admittedly the above is on ME and Asian carriers. Many euro crews seem to push straight back straight back with 'If you can't find space it's going in the hold' or 'Then it will have to go under the seat' both options leaving the pax cheesed off.
Admittedly the above is on ME and Asian carriers. Many euro crews seem to push straight back straight back with 'If you can't find space it's going in the hold' or 'Then it will have to go under the seat' both options leaving the pax cheesed off.
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 1,172
Likes: 29
From: Bolton ENGLAND
In the light of yesterdays 777 crash, where people were apparently opening overhead lockers during the evacuation - surely it would be a simple matter to make it a criminal offense to take any luggage with you, punishable with the same penalty as tampering with a smoke detector?
Just be grateful every one on board escaped with their lives and stop thinking up ways of criminalising escaping passengers......
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 4,369
Likes: 3
From: UK.
'If you can't find space it's going in the hold' or 'Then it will have to go under the seat' both options leaving the pax cheesed off.
Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 881
Likes: 67
From: UK
http://www.trekairways.co.za/42913%2...0crash%201.jpg
seems pax have been taking their luggage off for a while now
1960 http://www.trekairways.co.za/Trek_Airways_DC-4.htm
seems pax have been taking their luggage off for a while now
1960 http://www.trekairways.co.za/Trek_Airways_DC-4.htm
Joined: Sep 2001
Aviation Qualifications: CPL
Posts: 2,783
Likes: 203
From: Toronto
When the pax shows up at the boarding pass kiosk, s/he should have to pass a computer based quiz on evacuation:
1. During an evacuation, if the person ahead of you on way to an evacuation exit is blocking the way for you and those behind you while retrieving baggage, you must?
A. Shove him or her back to their seat to ensure the survival of yourself and those behind you.
B. Patiently stand there until you and those behind you are overcome by smoke and toxic combustion products.
2. If you absolutely must retrieve possessions before evacuating, you must?
A. Wait until everybody behind has passed your seat.
3. During taxi, takeoff or landing, it is possible that an emergency evacuation may be required. Where should important personal items such as passports, medications, credit cards, cash and other valuables, keys, phones, USB sticks etc. be kept during these phases of flight?
A. On your person
B. In an overhead bin where retrieval will not be possible in an emergency evacuation. Note that anybody blocking an aisle during an emergency is subject to being violently forced back into their seat without legal recourse.
1. During an evacuation, if the person ahead of you on way to an evacuation exit is blocking the way for you and those behind you while retrieving baggage, you must?
A. Shove him or her back to their seat to ensure the survival of yourself and those behind you.
B. Patiently stand there until you and those behind you are overcome by smoke and toxic combustion products.
2. If you absolutely must retrieve possessions before evacuating, you must?
A. Wait until everybody behind has passed your seat.
3. During taxi, takeoff or landing, it is possible that an emergency evacuation may be required. Where should important personal items such as passports, medications, credit cards, cash and other valuables, keys, phones, USB sticks etc. be kept during these phases of flight?
A. On your person
B. In an overhead bin where retrieval will not be possible in an emergency evacuation. Note that anybody blocking an aisle during an emergency is subject to being violently forced back into their seat without legal recourse.
Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 2,948
Likes: 1
From: Cloud 9
Here in the Philippines the P.A.'s are clearly dictated by the authority, I have flown with four of the airlines here and, at least in parts, the P.A.'s are the same word for word, examples:
1. Smoking in the toilet is a criminal offence, and:
2. Removing the life jacket from the aircraft is a criminal offence.
So what next ...
3. In the event that we should crash and whilst you may not be thinking clearly should you dare to take your handbag with you we're going to have you banged up ...
1. Smoking in the toilet is a criminal offence, and:
2. Removing the life jacket from the aircraft is a criminal offence.
So what next ...
3. In the event that we should crash and whilst you may not be thinking clearly should you dare to take your handbag with you we're going to have you banged up ...
Paxing All Over The World
Joined: May 2001
Posts: 10,842
Likes: 328
From: Hertfordshire, UK.
Clearly we need more CEOs and Heads of Training and Staffing to be held criminally and financially liable for the consequences for their neglect and contempt for those in their employ, who may be pushed to work longer hours and in schedules that are known to be deleterious to their health so as to safely carry the people who pay for their existence.
Unless to you make the person at the top of the tree responsible - nothing will change anywhere in the tree. Look at the example in the UK of newspapers hacking the phone messages of people? Did any of the bosses get banged up in prison?
The very, very few flight crew who might be criminally responsible are those who deliberately crash the plane [Germanwings 2015] and they are already dead.
Unless to you make the person at the top of the tree responsible - nothing will change anywhere in the tree. Look at the example in the UK of newspapers hacking the phone messages of people? Did any of the bosses get banged up in prison?
The very, very few flight crew who might be criminally responsible are those who deliberately crash the plane [Germanwings 2015] and they are already dead.
Joined: May 2009
Posts: 2,847
Likes: 0
From: Confoederatio Helvetica
Four pages and still no concrete examples of why taking your carry on is a bad thing.
I NEED my insulin. To a slightly lessor extent I NEED my glucose meter. I put these in a small bumbag, with my passport, money, credit cards, phone and other valuables (if I am taking them) which I also need .
I have no confidence that my stuff will survive any subsequent fire (DXB a classic example). I have no confidence I could access my two types of insulin, or replace my meter in foreign lands. I have no confidence that temporary travel documents can be made available in less than 72hrs, particularly over a weekend.
Airlines REFUSE to accept liability for valuables in checked luggage even if they are destroyed in a crash like DXB. They get the diamond mine, you get the shaft. Same if they are stolen (pilfered is the wrong word for stealing).
And does anyone think you will be reunited with the stuff you leave behind? I don't.
I NEED my insulin. To a slightly lessor extent I NEED my glucose meter. I put these in a small bumbag, with my passport, money, credit cards, phone and other valuables (if I am taking them) which I also need .
I have no confidence that my stuff will survive any subsequent fire (DXB a classic example). I have no confidence I could access my two types of insulin, or replace my meter in foreign lands. I have no confidence that temporary travel documents can be made available in less than 72hrs, particularly over a weekend.
Airlines REFUSE to accept liability for valuables in checked luggage even if they are destroyed in a crash like DXB. They get the diamond mine, you get the shaft. Same if they are stolen (pilfered is the wrong word for stealing).
And does anyone think you will be reunited with the stuff you leave behind? I don't.
Last edited by ExXB; 6th August 2016 at 10:05. Reason: Sp
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 90
Likes: 0
From: Adelaide
Some people seem to think this is a choice between walking off the plane safely with their stuff and walking off the the plane safely without their stuff. If that is the case then sure I want my stuff. But if it's a case of walking off the plane empty handed or dying I'll walk off the plane with nothing if I have to. My family don't need to know I am alive the moment I get off, I don't need my money or passports or laptop or iPad or kindle or medicines or whatever. Sure it will be a pain, probably a serious pain but I'll be alive. Mind you none of my medicines are for life threatening short term conditions just long term conditions that mean I can probably miss a week without too much damage. I can see other people have a more serious problem in this respect.
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 4,369
Likes: 3
From: UK.
Originally Posted by ExXB
I NEED my insulin. To a slightly lessor extent I NEED my glucose meter. I put these in a small bumbag, with my passport, money, credit cards, phone and other valuables (if I am taking them) which I also need .
It's standing there opening overhead lockers to which we take exception.
Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 1,761
Likes: 6
From: Lemonia. Best Greek in the world
Never mind putting people in prison for reaching for their bags - how about putting people in prison for stupid comments on pprune?
The only people qualified to comment on this are those who have had a real "evacuation" experience, either inside Aviation, or outside it in potentially dangerous industries.
Until you have had such an experience, you have no idea what a couple of hundred people will do when they panic.
The only people qualified to comment on this are those who have had a real "evacuation" experience, either inside Aviation, or outside it in potentially dangerous industries.
Until you have had such an experience, you have no idea what a couple of hundred people will do when they panic.