Easyjet to trial allocated seating

[easyflyer83]

Off the top of my head, the only loco airlines in Europe who do not currently offer allocated seating are Easyjet, Ryanair and Wizzair. There may be more (BMIbaby?) but I've never flown with them. In some respects it's relatively rare not to offer it. It's just that the large volume of passengers they collectively carry make 'the scrum' seem more normal than it actually is.

No, just those three although i wasn't aware Wizzair had non allocated seating I must admit.

Air Asia made the move to allocated seating on their short haul operations a few years ago. It didn't make that much of a difference to the length of time boarding takes, but it did make the process much less stressful. Personally I feel that this makes good business sense. Less stress equals more happiness, which equals more repeat custom, which equals fatter bottom lines. It could also be argued that happy passengers are more likely to part with cash once the aircraft is airbourne. Allocated seating is also a unique selling point which would distinguish Easyjet from several of its competitors.

Great business decision. From my previous posts you will know that it is a good move IMO. However, the "scrum" is usually exaggerated in my experience and has almost become a cliche. Some stations are worse than others but most are generally orderly. Where the inconvenience comes is the queuing in the terminal long before boarding, sometimes before the inbound has arrived. A lot of Easyjet boarding is done through airbridge and there is little noticable difference in terms of how people behave when they are used.

Moving to allocated seating allowed Air Asia to start exploiting other ancilliary revenue streams. Apart form the obvious (charging pax to select seats), Air Asia started offering extras such as hot meals, tax free shopping and inflight entertainment during the booking process. Such a move would be difficult without allocated seating as cabin crew would not know who had ordered what and where they were sat.

Inflight devices being trialled at MAN base on certain (generally A320) routes and apparently to be rolled out at LGW. Tax Free (Duty Free on Non-EU) has existed for years. Hot snacks have also been sold for years but hot meals won't happen and pre-booking things just adds complexity and layers in cost for the airline.

Onboard sales are important for Easyjet and there are certain bases and routes (especially Northern England/Northern Ireland/Scotland) that make lots of money. Indeed, longer routes such as SSH are very lucrative for crew and company. You have the time, and we do do IFE, Champagne, bar, snacks, shopping and cigarettes and spirits and it can very much resemble a charter flight 10/15/20 years ago. However, Easyjet's network is pretty much the most diverse short haul network in the whole world. It takes in the longer distance sun destinations, the typical shorter med routes, domestics, city's and VFR routes. So whilst replicating what you suggest is great on the MAN-SSH it doesn't work on the LGW-AMS and certainly not on some of the MXP/MAD based routes where passengers spend very little onboard. And even with that diversity, there is still a need for simplicity.

I see your point, I agree it would be great and I have pondered those ideas before but simplicity is really the name of the game at Easy and credit where credit is due, they have made a strong financial perfomance under one of the worst economic downturn we have ever seen.

[bizdev]

GO-fly

Interestingly (maybe) GO-fly - the ex BA financed LCC - was one of the only LCCs to offer allocated seating at that time (if I recall), but was dropped by EZY after EZY had taken over GO-fly. What goes around.........

[Agaricus bisporus]

And there lies part of the problem. Anything that Go did is almost totally beyond the pale even if it was universally popular with passengers (never let it be suggested that Go ever did anything better than EJ...Ha!) and such a move will stick severely in the EJ craw for that reason, plus having to go against the institutional Holy Cow of "not invented here" which is another EJ management obsession.

It will only happen if it makes more money than it costs to implement, is guaranteed not to adversely affect on time performance and the managers responsible will trouser sufficient £x00,000 bonuses to soothe their conciences (!) over breaking the two shibboleths in the first para.

[PAXboy]

Ag bis (if I may greet thus so informally!) has nailed the reason that NUMEROUS companies fail to implement change. Irrespective of whether a bonus directly relates to a change, the all powerful 'annual performance review' ensures that managers thrive by keeping things to themself and bragging to get an improved report and, consequently, annual raise.

Yet, if they accepted a good suggestion, they would get all the credit for implementing it and building the trust and confidence of a member of their staff. simples! If only modern business worked that way ...

[Piltdown Man]

Easy denialists

I'd like to think that I'm a reasonable sort of passenger. I pay my money, my bags are appropriate for the use and within weight. We turn up on time both for bag drop-off and at the gate. This meant we were waiting at the gate 30 minutes or so before boarding. When the gate opened the running, shoving, pushing and elbowing started. To stop my children from being shoved, pushed and possibly hurt, we let the eager beavers to go first. But even then, more aggressive types who arrived later at the gate, including speedy boarders, split my family up as we made our way down the airbridge. That's why we arrived in a split up fashion. So easyflyer83, its not unreasonable for me to expect you to sort out the mess created by your company's greedy policies.

Believe me, given the choice I won't fly if I don't have to. I'll never fly RYR and would prefer not to fly orange but will if I have to. But I still don't enjoy being chiselled for cash. Paying extra to join the first running scrum is not my idea of holiday travel.

Paxboy - 8.3p per mile? That's not very cheap. £750 to LHR-SYD is cheap. What I paid was what I'd expect to pay with ANY carrier to do this journey. Yes it is 'only' £300 per person but can't be that popular otherwise there would be real competition and the price considerably less. What I don't appreciate is being told that this is "cheap" or that it's "low cost". It's just this is the very maximum that they could get away with.

...the main issue I have with your post, IF you bothered to read the details on the EZY website then it also says that bookings made with several people will be allocated seats next to one another automatically, provided this is possible.

Which is where this thread started. Yes thank you, edi_local, we did read the Easy's website. It says "We will aim to seat families together as a matter of priority" and yes, we started and ended our holiday sitting and two twos and a single. The boys (11 & 14) sat together and with the intervention of cabin crew I was able to sit next to my seven year daughter. Thank you. We communicated with sign language. So, if I'm paying the money (and your salary) I'm quite reasonably stating that if given the choice, I'd want allocated seating.

Lastly, it's so nice being put in your place by such lovely orange employees. I'm sure you must be lovely people and a joy to fly with.

PS: Why does KLM not even let you choose a seat on a short haul flight? Are you sure?

[PAXboy]

Thank you for the further detail PM. I do stick with my view that the £300 is a reasonable price but certainly agree that £750 round trip(?) to SYD is ultra cheap. Too cheap and someone is losing money on that, such is the current formulation of capitalism.

The details of how your family was broken up, gets my entire sympathy and might perhaps have been mentioned earlier in the thread. I agree that over the time of my using EZY in 1996 (less than 10 mths after they started) to now, the behaviour of pax has deteriorated in line with the overall behaviour of the great british public.

A couple of years ago, I was returning FCO to LGW with them and:

• It was the last out on Sunday evening
• There was a delay in the inbound
• The P.A. system was hardly audible
• It was Rome ...

Fortunately, I was on my own but the crush was almost frightening.

[Piltdown Man]

PaxBoy, your maths does indeed need correction. The tickets were as good as damn it £370 a piece. This actually works out to be 73p per nautical mile as a family or if you like 15p per mile per seat. Travelling as a group this is actually more expensive than a car/ferry (which is a fair (no pun intended) comparison for group travel) but obviously more than one day faster in each direction, which is the reason we chose to fly.

But another thing that really annoyed me was that we were unable to get a firm price for our holiday. The flight element for our booking was originally for £1,500 but those tickets were not available. So for the same, un-allocated seats, we had to cough up another £336 - because we were stupid enough to book on EasyJet! So if they would like to improve their product, how about a transparent pricing policy that gives firm prices?

I know my family's custom is not appreciated by easyflyer83 or edi_local. Passengers like me who disagree with them about their company's policies are treated with contempt and are insulted. But as you two are so good at it, may I ask are you naturally this unpleasant or did EasyJet pay for your training?


PS. Thank you ExXB
PPS. The LHR-SYD price results in about 8p/mile.

[easyflyer83]

PaxBoy, your maths does indeed need correction. The tickets were as good as damn it £370 a piece. This actually works out to be 73p per nautical mile as a family or if you like 15p per mile per seat. Travelling as a group this is actually more expensive than a car/ferry (which is a fair (no pun intended) comparison for group travel) but obviously more than one day faster in each direction, which is the reason we chose to fly.

The car/Ferry option also takes around 26 hours longer. Thus the quicker option (i.e flying) is always going to be more expensive. £0.15 per seat mile is still very cheap. It also explains why Easyjet makes less than a fiver profit after seat sales and acillaries. Still, it's a very successful business.

But another thing that really annoyed me was that we were unable to get a firm price for our holiday. The flight element for our booking was originally for £1,500 but those tickets were not available. So for the same, un-allocated seats, we had to cough up another £336 - because we were stupid enough to book on EasyJet! So if they would like to improve their product, how about a transparent pricing policy that gives firm prices?

If the fare was not available and it wasn't a fare that you could book then how is this different to any other airline? If the total fare of £1,500 was not available at then it wasn't originally a fare unless you chose not to book it at the time you saw it. If you would have booked your flight when you saw that fare, you would have got that fare!.
If you ended up paying £336 then that is your choice pure and simple. There are other airlines who fly between LON and FAO so why not use them? That is a genuine question.

As for transparent pricing, Easyjet has been recognised as having a very transparent pricing policy on the website. Flights include tax and it clearly gives you the option to include bags. There is no additional charger for tax or check in either online or at the airport.

I know my family's custom is not appreciated by easyflyer83 or edi_local. Passengers like me who disagree with them about their company's policies are treated with contempt and are insulted. But as you two are so good at it, may I ask are you naturally this unpleasant or did EasyJet pay for your training?

First and foremost, lets be clear, when on PPRUNE I am not employed by anyone and my views are my own private views as an individual. I owe neither you or indeed, anyone else, any additional respect. We post on here as equals.

My initial SEP and fundamental customer service training was undertaken by GB Airways. I am not unpleasant onboard and I am very professional in my work. PPRUNE, is not my work.

On internal forums you would also know that I am not an Easyjet apologist. There are issues that I don't agree with easyjet on including certain card charges and, if you read my previous posts, you would know that I whole heartedly agree with the move towards allocated seating.

£750 btw is a bloody good fare to SYD and we both know that you would be hard pushed to find that fare again. We also both know that the availablility of that cheapest SYD fare would be proportionate to the cheapest FAO fare.

[Piltdown Man]

Thus the quicker option (i.e flying) is always going to be more expensive.

No, that's not right. Slower ships cost considerably more per mile. It's because the perceived value of time (saved) has a value and that can be reflected in the ticket price. Another factor is route competition. We flew NCL-FAO. There was none given the timings and the package offered. The price of a ticket has little, if any, bearing on cost.

If you would have booked your flight when you saw that fare, you would have got that fare!

Wrong. You are clearly ignorant about your company's product marketing channels. We bought our flights via Villa Plus and they have to buy their customers tickets during normal working hours - not online. We booked and paid our deposit to confirm our booking on a Friday night and got chiseled by EasyJet on Monday.

There are other airlines who fly between LON and FAO...

So? We flew from NCL and believe me, in the future I will try and fly with someone else if I can.

£0.15 per seat mile is still very cheap.

At that rate, you can fly with a 'legacy' carrier like Qantas or BA, have meals included, allocated seats etc and still have a few pence per mile to spare.

It's obvious that you have bought the illusion of 'low cost'. 'Low Cost' means that very little is included in the price of your ticket other than a random seat on a flight. If you want anything else you'll have to pay for it, often through the nose. However, the basic fare will be the maximum the marketing gurus reckon they can get away with, not the least they can charge and still make a profit.

I am not unpleasant onboard and I am very professional in my work.

I'm sure you are. We can see that by your argument.

[easyflyer83]

No, that's not right. Slower ships cost considerably more per mile. It's because the perceived value of time (saved) has a value and that can be reflected in the ticket price. Another factor is route competition. We flew NCL-FAO. There was none given the timings and the package offered. The price of a ticket has little, if any, bearing on cost.

Time is money for alot of people. What do you think concordes USP was?

Wrong. You are clearly ignorant about your company's product marketing channels. We bought our flights via Villa Plus and they have to buy their customers tickets during normal working hours - not online. We booked and paid our deposit to confirm our booking on a Friday night and got chiseled by EasyJet on Monday.

That is (honestly) the downfall of the tour operator if anything. Easyjet doesn't have a defined relationship with tour ops in the traditional sense. Right from the start they have sold fares directly to the passenger and not through travel agents/tour op's. This is starting to change with GDS being used in business travel, something which is about to be expanded on. If Villa Plus wish to use Easyjet they perhaps should work with them to resolve the issue of not being able to book out of office hours. I'm not entirely sure why they couldn't have booked it on the internet.

So? We flew from NCL and believe me, in the future I will try and fly with someone else if I can.

Sorry, my mistake. Either way though there is always a choice.

At that rate, you can fly with a 'legacy' carrier like Qantas or BA, have meals included, allocated seats etc and still have a few pence per mile to spare.

It's obvious that you have bought the illusion of 'low cost'. 'Low Cost' means that very little is included in the price of your ticket other than a random seat on a flight. If you want anything else you'll have to pay for it, often through the nose. However, the basic fare will be the maximum the marketing gurus reckon they can get away with, not the least they can charge and still make a profit.

And they too also have economy fares/seat per mile alot more than 15p in the same vein, Easyjet has fares less than that. Qantas are at the other side of the world and are in deep and BA offers very little onboard cabin service on flights less than 2.5 hours these days. The comparison is slightly flawed.
Easyjet aren't thick and they will sell fares for the maximum amount they can which is generally simple business acumen and they are very successful at it. They have raised yields and profit in a very harsh climate, they must be doing something right. Even so, like i said, less than £5 profit per seat with no subsidy from premium seats or anything. Hardly a lot is it? I wonder what BA and QF's margins are?

I'm sure you are. We can see that by your argument.

Touche. Like I said though, I am not at work when I am on here and my views bear no relation to my personna either at work or in my private life.

[wowzz]

Easyflyer - can I just say how much I admire your restraint in the face of PM's antagonistic approach!

[Hipennine]

PM,

As a matter of interest, did you check the fare that was available to you directly by making the booking yourself on Easy's site, vs what a travel agent chose to charge you ? And how long before you traveled was this fare determined ?
Could you have booked a similar trip on Easyjet Holidays site at a lower total price ? Was there not an alternative tour-op offering on charters from NCL ? What was the difference in the EZY cost vs BA via LHR or LGW, or KLM via AMS, or AirFrance via CDG ?

[nivsy]

To be honest just about every time I have flown with Easy I have managed window emergency exit seat without speedy boarding etc...if that fails certainly a seat of my choice. Compare that to BA where I have ended up in middle seats when not able to check in on line or pay the extra to choose seats. I quite like the easy boarding current method -as can choose also to stay away from screaming kids!

[one post only!]

Normally I witness families all arriving at the aircraft together. I guess most parents just make sure they look after their children and make an effort to keep them together. I guess if you don't then you will be split up and arrive separately. The aggressive attitude of some passengers pushing is not caused by the EZY policies but by people just being plain rude! I suppose EZY are to blame for people running red lights and being aggressive on the roads also? Rude attitudes just seem to be endemic nowadays.

At least thanks to the crew you managed to sit you together despite the scrum. Let’s all just hope the allocated seating trial is successful and it’s implemented to make things better for families like yours PM.

Enjoy flying with another carrier, or with us, either way, happy holidays.

[Piltdown Man]

As a matter of interest, did you check the fare that was available to you directly by making the booking yourself on Easy's site, vs what a travel agent chose to charge you ? And how long before you traveled was this fare determined ?

Good question. The booking was made four months before travel and a close eye was kept on the EasyJet site. The site's fare was the same as the agent's fare on the Friday but by the confirmation on Monday, the price had gone up.

Could you have booked a similar trip on Easyjet Holidays site at a lower total price ? Was there not an alternative tour-op offering on charters from NCL ? What was the difference in the EZY cost vs BA via LHR or LGW, or KLM via AMS, or AirFrance via CDG ?

Another good question - There was no realistic alternative flights for the villa and NCL travel. Living 20 minutes from the airport means that there has to be a substantial saving to make me travel from elsewhere. As for travelling via a hub, I'll do it if I have to but spending several hours at LHR/CDG/AMS is not my idea of a holiday. The direct flight is worth something. And I'll have to admit that I haven't looked at EasyJet holidays - Do you have to race to their villas from the airport to get good a one or are they allocated before departure?

At least thanks to the crew you managed to sit you together despite the scrum.

Sitting with your family spread over six rows (PM + daughter, Mrs. PM, Son 14 + Son 11) is not quite what I call sitting together.

Let’s all just hope the allocated seating trial is successful and it’s implemented to make things better for families like yours PM.

Yes thank you, I hope so. But I hope it doesn't cost more than "Speedy Boarding"?

...PM's antagonistic approach!

No - I'm being nice. Really nasty, antagonistic people can do far worse than me. And remember, the worst thing from a business point of view, is say nothing to the company, tell all of your friends and colleagues and never fly with that person again.

The aggressive attitude of some passengers pushing is not caused by the EZY policies but by people just being plain rude!

Yes you are are right - but our world is inhabited by greedy, grasping rude people and EZY's policy of unallocated seating, like Ryanair's and others, bring out the very worst in people. But I suppose you get used to it.

Next year might be an interesting one. I'll be looking for a bargain!

[Hipennine]

PM,

It rather looks like supply and demand markets at work then ! EZY have their product, and because of your travel preferences, that was the only one available to you. Probably the fare to PMI or AGP for the same day might have been rather less. For the last 2 years, I have had an almost opposite example going to Funchal. NCL is 20 miles from my door, but it has been way more cost effective and convenient (ie flight time and frequency) to drive to Bristol to fly on EZY rather than take the once per week cramped, inconveniently timed and hugely expensive direct Thompson flight from NCL.

Earlier this year we had a long weekend in Switzerland. As you are probably aware, apart from the ski season, there are no directs from NCL, but we were tempted by a fare in the BA sale via LHR to ZRH (which was way more convenient than GVA (EZY and Jet2 destination) anyway). The whole BA process was way less aggro than EZY, and the 1.5/2hour stop in Terminal 5 was no big deal. So the via-hub may not be as bad as you think.

[Piltdown Man]

Hipennine - You are right and yes we will look at other carriers in the future and maybe even build our own holiday.

[dwshimoda]

PM

There was no realistic alternative flights for the villa and NCL travel

Jet2.com fly from Newcastle to Faro 5 days a week in summer.

I'm staying out of most of your argument, but I do think the pricing issue should be taken with your agent, not Easy.

[Anansis]

Easyjets trial of allocated seating began last week:

BBC News - Easyjet to trial giving allocated seats to passengers

Does anyone have any experiences of it yet? I'm particularly curious to know what happens to people who don't pay for the product. Do they get to choose a seat at check-in (as they do on many European/SE Asian lo cost carriers) or are they stuck with an automatically assigned number which can't be changed?

[ExXB]

Originally Posted by Anansis

Easyjets trial of allocated seating began last week:

BBC News - Easyjet to trial giving allocated seats to passengers

Does anyone have any experiences of it yet? I'm particularly curious to know what happens to people who don't pay for the product. Do they get to choose a seat at check-in (as they do on many European/SE Asian lo cost carriers) or are they stuck with an automatically assigned number which can't be changed?

Check-in? Who goes to check-in anymore? Baggage drop, perhaps, but never check-in. I too am curious on how they are going to treat those who aren't willing to pay, and indeed those who paid for a years worth of speedy boarding.

I sure hope we don't see boarding in the following order.

Those who have paid for assigned seats;
Speedy boarders who wouldn't pay more;
Infirm and those with kids under 12;
Rest of us who get to sit in-between all of the above.