BA Strike - Your Thoughts & Questions V
Joined: Jun 2010
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From: -)
Lessons to learn from BASSA
BASSA says that it is the biggest branch.
I can see that if a Branch or Lodge or Chapel has less than a hundred members, then it is tough work on the shop stewards - and certainly would be inappropriate for the "parent" Union to impose bureaucratic systems like auditing of accounts._ But size changes relationships and opportunities._ Relationships are easy to talk about._ Opportunities are something to privately think about.
It seems to me that 100 members is a threshold and at some point slightly above that, the parent Union should require that accounts are published every year (say within 3 months after the year end).
At a higher threshold - somewhere between 500 and a 1000 members - the Union should require that the accounts be annually audited, published and there should also be a facility for questions and answers and these questions and answers should be available as information to all those members of that Branch (and the timescale should be defined by the parent Union in the form of rules that apply to all branches without exception).
If there is someone in either Unite or any other Union reading this, then I say thank you for reading this, and I respectfully suggest that what I am advocating can only be to the advantage of the Union movement.
I can see that if a Branch or Lodge or Chapel has less than a hundred members, then it is tough work on the shop stewards - and certainly would be inappropriate for the "parent" Union to impose bureaucratic systems like auditing of accounts._ But size changes relationships and opportunities._ Relationships are easy to talk about._ Opportunities are something to privately think about.
It seems to me that 100 members is a threshold and at some point slightly above that, the parent Union should require that accounts are published every year (say within 3 months after the year end).
At a higher threshold - somewhere between 500 and a 1000 members - the Union should require that the accounts be annually audited, published and there should also be a facility for questions and answers and these questions and answers should be available as information to all those members of that Branch (and the timescale should be defined by the parent Union in the form of rules that apply to all branches without exception).
If there is someone in either Unite or any other Union reading this, then I say thank you for reading this, and I respectfully suggest that what I am advocating can only be to the advantage of the Union movement.
Joined: Aug 2006
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From: Lemonia. Best Greek in the world
I'm sure that a patient poster on here can tell me what I've got wrong..............I'm sure there is something.........
Diary of a striker....
I went on strike. I don't know why. I lost a few days pay but gave the BMW an outing. It was like a nice little holiday. I was going to go sick, as usual, but the Union said that I might not be paid. Took the kids to some place quite near Heathrow, had a good shout, and an interesting bus ride. My employer took away my free travel, so some of the cash that I used to get from various mates from giving them freebies was reduced.
I'm told we won whatever the strike was about. I haven't got my free travel back yet, but I'm told I will get it back, with extra compensation for losing it in the first place. At one stage, someone said in 5 minutes, but I have got used to not holding my breath.
There is one less person on some of the planes that I crew on, but I haven't noticed as I'm senior and I get to sleep for lots of the time.
Someone has been leaving lights on in the bunks. That earns us some extra money for some strange reason. I always use eye-shades, so I don't notice, but the money comes in hand.
There are some new, and younger faces at the CRC. I'm told that I shouldn't mix with them as they are New. My Union rep says that the Union battled hard to keep them off my planes. I haven't seen any on the Sin and NRT routes, yet.
There appear to be some pilots and engineers and even some beancounters training up as Volunteer crew. Clearly, we are so important that every one else has to be trained up in our job.
I hope they take their sickies on a regular basis. I would not want our sickies to be lost - they come in very handy at some times of year.
The money keeps rolling in now, so I'm happy enough.
I still have not met my manager. I saw him (it would be a him) once, in the distance. The TU rep, who is around much more, has warned me to avoid managers. I'm told that the Union dislikes managers nearly as much as it dislikes pilots. When I was younger, I used to enjoy being with the pilots, in all sorts of ways, but as I've got older I don't fancy them so much.
I'm going to retire in about 3 years. I am very pleased that my Union has kept a very close eye on my pension plan, and that it is very healthy,and guaranteed by the Union. I once heard that it was owed 4 billion pounds by BA, but that can't be right.
Diary of a striker....
I went on strike. I don't know why. I lost a few days pay but gave the BMW an outing. It was like a nice little holiday. I was going to go sick, as usual, but the Union said that I might not be paid. Took the kids to some place quite near Heathrow, had a good shout, and an interesting bus ride. My employer took away my free travel, so some of the cash that I used to get from various mates from giving them freebies was reduced.
I'm told we won whatever the strike was about. I haven't got my free travel back yet, but I'm told I will get it back, with extra compensation for losing it in the first place. At one stage, someone said in 5 minutes, but I have got used to not holding my breath.
There is one less person on some of the planes that I crew on, but I haven't noticed as I'm senior and I get to sleep for lots of the time.
Someone has been leaving lights on in the bunks. That earns us some extra money for some strange reason. I always use eye-shades, so I don't notice, but the money comes in hand.
There are some new, and younger faces at the CRC. I'm told that I shouldn't mix with them as they are New. My Union rep says that the Union battled hard to keep them off my planes. I haven't seen any on the Sin and NRT routes, yet.
There appear to be some pilots and engineers and even some beancounters training up as Volunteer crew. Clearly, we are so important that every one else has to be trained up in our job.
I hope they take their sickies on a regular basis. I would not want our sickies to be lost - they come in very handy at some times of year.
The money keeps rolling in now, so I'm happy enough.
I still have not met my manager. I saw him (it would be a him) once, in the distance. The TU rep, who is around much more, has warned me to avoid managers. I'm told that the Union dislikes managers nearly as much as it dislikes pilots. When I was younger, I used to enjoy being with the pilots, in all sorts of ways, but as I've got older I don't fancy them so much.
I'm going to retire in about 3 years. I am very pleased that my Union has kept a very close eye on my pension plan, and that it is very healthy,and guaranteed by the Union. I once heard that it was owed 4 billion pounds by BA, but that can't be right.
Last edited by Ancient Observer; 21st April 2011 at 15:43. Reason: error
Joined: Feb 2001
Posts: 6,726
Likes: 103
From: The Winchester
I'm sure that a patient poster on here can tell me what I've got wrong..............I'm sure there is something.........
I would have given you 10/10 if you inserted a sentence blaming the pilots for something, anything, or indeed everything.
Keep up the good work
Joined: Oct 2001
Posts: 1,980
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From: Gatwick
Please?
Sorry mods, I promise this will be the only repost -
Range of Reasonable Responses Test for Employee Misconduct Survey
Thanks to the 44 who have completed it so far.
Range of Reasonable Responses Test for Employee Misconduct Survey
Thanks to the 44 who have completed it so far.
Joined: Mar 2010
Aviation Qualifications: ATCO
Posts: 8,023
Likes: 314
From: Often in Jersey, but mainly in the past.
Originally Posted by notlangley
At a higher threshold - somewhere between 500 and a 1000 members - the Union should require that the accounts be annually audited, published and there should also be a facility for questions and answers and these questions and answers should be available as information to all those members of that Branch (and the timescale should be defined by the parent Union in the form of rules that apply to all branches without exception).
If there is someone in either Unite or any other Union reading this, then I say thank you for reading this, and I respectfully suggest that what I am advocating can only be to the advantage of the Union movement.
If there is someone in either Unite or any other Union reading this, then I say thank you for reading this, and I respectfully suggest that what I am advocating can only be to the advantage of the Union movement.
There does seem to be a major problem with the way DH runs his fiefdom, and the only way that gets resolved is either by the members of BASSA [if they're allowed to express a contrary view] or by Unite the Union itself.
There could be a swift resolution to the entire farce if Unite's Gen Sec actually chose to take a firm [if non-public] grip of what is happening within BASSA. Then BA could talk to an adult without background noises from the SWP play-room.
Sadly, I'm not optimistic. 'Red Len' has bigger fish to fry.
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 798
Likes: 0
From: The Land of Beer and Chocolate
Sorry mods, I promise this will be the only repost -
Range of Reasonable Responses Test for Employee Misconduct Survey
Thanks to the 44 who have completed it so far.
Range of Reasonable Responses Test for Employee Misconduct Survey
Thanks to the 44 who have completed it so far.
PS. There are too many questions there that are not answerable with the options you've given
Joined: Mar 2010
Aviation Qualifications: ATCO
Posts: 8,023
Likes: 314
From: Often in Jersey, but mainly in the past.
As a slight aside, may I just wish everyone a pleasant weekend? The UK weather looks nice, and for those who are travelling it seems there's no BA Strike either.
Happy Easter
Happy Easter
Joined: Oct 2001
Posts: 1,980
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From: Gatwick
hellsbrink
Thanks for the feedback. Looking back on it, I should have asked less questions, but branched each one off depending on the answers. But the initial point was to see what the reasonable person would say, when faced with a question of misconduct. We all look in at examples and there have been many discussed on the two threads (well numerous threads, but in cabin crew and SLF).
If you look at the fighting questions, I honestly thought that both questions would give dismissal as the most likely outcome. Neither did. Now if I was to just ask what would you think would be the outcome if two people were caught fighting, then I think the result would have been the sack.
Still, I am up to 53 responses now, so hopefully it will be seen as worthwhile (TV adverts can say 83% of people preferred it when 113 people are polled!)
I would ask that you have a go based on this, but I will understand if you don't want to.
If you look at the fighting questions, I honestly thought that both questions would give dismissal as the most likely outcome. Neither did. Now if I was to just ask what would you think would be the outcome if two people were caught fighting, then I think the result would have been the sack.
Still, I am up to 53 responses now, so hopefully it will be seen as worthwhile (TV adverts can say 83% of people preferred it when 113 people are polled!)
I would ask that you have a go based on this, but I will understand if you don't want to.
Last edited by Litebulbs; 21st April 2011 at 20:38. Reason: 59 now!
Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 135
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From: GB
Originally Posted by Litebulbs
Looking back on it, I should have asked less questions..
I did fill it out, against my better judgement.
Most of the responses were in the written warning/written warning with sanction.
However, I have to agree with others who have looked at it that without the exact detail of the misdemeanour, the previous employment and disciplinary history of the individual, and the contrition or otherwise of the individual, it really is very hard to make a definitive judgement.
You'll probably end up with a nice survey which tells you what you want to hear - that BA acted much more aggressively than your respondents would have under similar circumstances.
Sadly, like the GCSE-level survey on Bullying which Unite cobbled together last year, your survey will have more holes in it than a colander.
You'd be better off focussing your energies on ensuring Unite has compelled BASSA to produce accounts, have them audited and make them available to members. That's where the real danger lies for Unite.
Joined: Apr 2008
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From: GB
Pas de probleme.
I am also linking to the BA Offer put to non-union members in October 2010 as it's getting quite a bit of mention on the other thread, and might usefully be linked to there:
http://uniteba.com/ESW/Files/151010_...llectivev6.doc
I am also linking to the BA Offer put to non-union members in October 2010 as it's getting quite a bit of mention on the other thread, and might usefully be linked to there:
http://uniteba.com/ESW/Files/151010_...llectivev6.doc
Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 135
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From: GB
Or even "offence"....
It's worth taking a look at Litebulbs' survey if you have time over the long weekend:
Range of Reasonable Responses Test for Employee Misconduct Survey
Though of more interest are notlangley's stats:
Even at £500,000 per year I am perplexed about how the money is actually spent. It's not just salary we should be looking at, but also things like expenses, company cars (BMW M3s aren't cheap!) and pension contributions which I would reckon are not inconsiderable.
I don't have a problem with people being remunerated for work they perform, but to do so without transparency, and especially when required to do so by Law, is anathema to any professional.
It's worth taking a look at Litebulbs' survey if you have time over the long weekend:
Range of Reasonable Responses Test for Employee Misconduct Survey
Though of more interest are notlangley's stats:
Originally Posted by notlangley
In a letter dated 22 February 2011 from Brendan Gold to Tony McCarthy, Brendan Gold said of BASSA numbers that he believed that they numbered 8918.
On the other thread Rover90 said that the monthly subscription to BASSA is £16.38 from which BA deduct a handling fee of 2.5%. - Most of the money goes to Unite, what is left remains at the discretion of BASSA. - What is left is £5.28 multiplied by 8918 = £47,127.17 per month - or £565,526 per year
Presumably the accounts of BASSA read
_Income_________Expenditure_________Loss_________Prophet
£565,526_________£565,526____________0_____________0
Errors and Omissions Excepted
links_____link1_____link2
On the other thread Rover90 said that the monthly subscription to BASSA is £16.38 from which BA deduct a handling fee of 2.5%. - Most of the money goes to Unite, what is left remains at the discretion of BASSA. - What is left is £5.28 multiplied by 8918 = £47,127.17 per month - or £565,526 per year
Presumably the accounts of BASSA read
_Income_________Expenditure_________Loss_________Prophet
£565,526_________£565,526____________0_____________0
Errors and Omissions Excepted
links_____link1_____link2
I don't have a problem with people being remunerated for work they perform, but to do so without transparency, and especially when required to do so by Law, is anathema to any professional.
Joined: Apr 2010
Posts: 39
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From: Dubai
LB
I also responded to your survey and found, with the information you had given in the questions, I was easily able to make a judgement....you can always look for further detail as others have noted, but as in real life thats not always available.....so you judge on the information you have...
One point though, different discipline Managers will have differing views on relevant action....a classic example is the top salesman question who gets involved in a fight...a HR Director would recommend a harsher course of action than a Sales Director, who will not want to lose his best salesman and therefore may be more lienient....
I realise these types of surveys can grow arms and legs once you start to get feedback, but a function filter as well as senirioty filter on respondants may yield you more valuable results...?
But, great survey and I hope it helps you in your studies
One point though, different discipline Managers will have differing views on relevant action....a classic example is the top salesman question who gets involved in a fight...a HR Director would recommend a harsher course of action than a Sales Director, who will not want to lose his best salesman and therefore may be more lienient....
I realise these types of surveys can grow arms and legs once you start to get feedback, but a function filter as well as senirioty filter on respondants may yield you more valuable results...?
But, great survey and I hope it helps you in your studies
Joined: Oct 2001
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From: Gatwick
harrypic
Thanks for that harrypic. I have since been shown how to set more questions within the rules of free survey monkey.
The question I ask now, looking at the results, is although dismissal has not been the first choice in any of the questions, would it still be in the reasonable range? Dismissal has been the answer in every question, by at least one person, so should it be included?
Oh for a 1000 responses, rather than 60, but an interesting 60 anyway.
The question I ask now, looking at the results, is although dismissal has not been the first choice in any of the questions, would it still be in the reasonable range? Dismissal has been the answer in every question, by at least one person, so should it be included?
Oh for a 1000 responses, rather than 60, but an interesting 60 anyway.
Joined: Oct 2001
Posts: 1,980
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From: Gatwick
Great points and I agree that would have been more informative, rather than just having it as a tick box at the end. Hopefully I will learn from this learning exercise in researching a researching task.