BA Strike - Your Thoughts & Questions V
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Thank you Betty girl - that answers a question that has been troubling me for some time.
It must therefore be tough and rough for the team launching PCCC to have BASSA cc coming into PCCC in trojan horses.
It must therefore be tough and rough for the team launching PCCC to have BASSA cc coming into PCCC in trojan horses.
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Well I don't see any Trojan horses joining. There are a few crew that are members of both but most people attracted to the PCCC have chosen to leave Bassa anyway.
The Bassa mentalist believe everything Bassa say and are therefore not interested in joining, so no, we don't have any unpleasantness on our forum at all, just a group of people sharing constructive ideas and keen for an end of all this madness.
These are of course just my own observations as I don't speak for BA or the PCCC.
The Bassa mentalist believe everything Bassa say and are therefore not interested in joining, so no, we don't have any unpleasantness on our forum at all, just a group of people sharing constructive ideas and keen for an end of all this madness.
These are of course just my own observations as I don't speak for BA or the PCCC.
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As SLF, I'd just be grateful if the CC/BASSA/PCCC/BA could sort things out.
It is getting really tiresome.
I know I'll still fly BA [on time, with bags] but the background bickering, which is all it is now, is getting very boring.
It is getting really tiresome.
I know I'll still fly BA [on time, with bags] but the background bickering, which is all it is now, is getting very boring.
Hiflyer,
As I have said before, I think the whole PC3 thing is great.
However, as you know, you do not need anything like 40 % membership to approach BA.
You will NEVER be recognised for "not being bassa". You know that. The other TUs, and even the PC3 supporting branches of BA would be forced to turn against you.
You need a positive statement, and a brand, and brand values, that say what you are and what you stand for.
er, and you must - legally - be financially independent.
By what you say, you have some work to do......
Great luck!
AO
As I have said before, I think the whole PC3 thing is great.
However, as you know, you do not need anything like 40 % membership to approach BA.
You will NEVER be recognised for "not being bassa". You know that. The other TUs, and even the PC3 supporting branches of BA would be forced to turn against you.
You need a positive statement, and a brand, and brand values, that say what you are and what you stand for.
er, and you must - legally - be financially independent.
By what you say, you have some work to do......
Great luck!
AO
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HiFlyer14
Thanks for that HF, it is refreshing to see you back on this thread again.
I can understand this sort of thing is tiresome, to say the least, but it could be viewed quite accurately as an indication of how well you are doing. If you really were a 200 member busted flush, then BASSA would surely have no need or even inclination to pull such stunts?
It seems to me - SLF outsider - that there is a mellowing of the few BASSA supporters posting on here and 'the other thread', which might indicate a slow dawning of the truth among the hard liners. It might be worth warming up your recruiting forms for a bit of a rush soon.
Roger.
There are huge mountains to climb, not least of all the backlash from BASSA who are deliberately trying to destroy everything we do - from ripping down our notices, sending hate mail, issuing fraudulent letters alleging to be from the PCCC, publishing false 'facts' ie. Only 200 members...the list goes on.
It seems to me - SLF outsider - that there is a mellowing of the few BASSA supporters posting on here and 'the other thread', which might indicate a slow dawning of the truth among the hard liners. It might be worth warming up your recruiting forms for a bit of a rush soon.
Roger.
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There is this quite brilliant rewriting of history/state of complete denial posted by BASSAWitch on the other thread.
Remember BA also need to know we - that is BASSA - are genuine in our attemtps to resolve matters. We have to respect the two way process. Let me end this message with a couple of cliches - I hope they make sense. Apologies for having to be cryptic.
We should not make the hole Keith Williams is trying to get out of any bigger while he is - hopefully - thinking of ways to get Walsh's genie back in the bottle.
We should not make the hole Keith Williams is trying to get out of any bigger while he is - hopefully - thinking of ways to get Walsh's genie back in the bottle.
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Miss M - on main thread
Miss M - you are a monologue operating in a monotone.
You have been posting on the CC thread for some while, I can only hope that you do cast an eye on this thread now and again.
You have been broadcasting for some months now - at least it feels like it - you have a constant drip feed that never varies - how terrible BA are as an employer, how awful it is to work for them, how they cannot be trusted without constant surveillence, how they do not treat their workers with any respect, how they do not keep to agreed conditions, agreements and procedures ................... and so it goes on & on & on......
On the other hand you agree that BASSA might make a few mistakes now & again, most done due to misunderstandings or BA statements or actions - Yes, you agree that in one or two cases, that they are not perfect and may not have done the best job in the world, but they do try and it only requires BA to sign on the dotted line, handing over the running of the operation to BASSA.
No matter what people have said to you over the past few months, your whinging continues afoot, you may make the odd one or two gestures now and again that encourages a poster to feel that they are making headway in discussions with you, then you revert to type and your previous position.
Now it has to be said, if you are genuine, shut up, leave BA and find yourself a job elsewhere with someone you trust, you will never be happy with BA and will only ever cause trouble. Alternatively you are simply a BASSA troll or construct, an unusually good one compared to previous attempts, but none the less an apologist for BASSA - equally - shut up and go away - you are wasting everyone's time and effort. (I think BG is a saint!!).
Mods - I know that you always play the ball - not the man - but sometimes the ball wears out and deflates.
You have been posting on the CC thread for some while, I can only hope that you do cast an eye on this thread now and again.
You have been broadcasting for some months now - at least it feels like it - you have a constant drip feed that never varies - how terrible BA are as an employer, how awful it is to work for them, how they cannot be trusted without constant surveillence, how they do not treat their workers with any respect, how they do not keep to agreed conditions, agreements and procedures ................... and so it goes on & on & on......
On the other hand you agree that BASSA might make a few mistakes now & again, most done due to misunderstandings or BA statements or actions - Yes, you agree that in one or two cases, that they are not perfect and may not have done the best job in the world, but they do try and it only requires BA to sign on the dotted line, handing over the running of the operation to BASSA.
No matter what people have said to you over the past few months, your whinging continues afoot, you may make the odd one or two gestures now and again that encourages a poster to feel that they are making headway in discussions with you, then you revert to type and your previous position.
Now it has to be said, if you are genuine, shut up, leave BA and find yourself a job elsewhere with someone you trust, you will never be happy with BA and will only ever cause trouble. Alternatively you are simply a BASSA troll or construct, an unusually good one compared to previous attempts, but none the less an apologist for BASSA - equally - shut up and go away - you are wasting everyone's time and effort. (I think BG is a saint!!).
Mods - I know that you always play the ball - not the man - but sometimes the ball wears out and deflates.
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Entaxei
... Alternatively you are simply a BASSA troll or construct, an unusually good one compared to previous attempts, but none the less an apologist for BASSA ...
Lucid, literate and persistent ... yes.
In fact, so many long posts, and at such frequency, I'm halfway minded to have a look back to try and see where her 75% contract could be fitted in to her PPRuNe posting schedule.
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I thought all of you wanted to hear the views of real Bassa crew!
If you don't treat theirs views with respect they might stop giving them to us and then you would have to go back to just making suppositions, about how you think they feel!!!
If you don't treat theirs views with respect they might stop giving them to us and then you would have to go back to just making suppositions, about how you think they feel!!!
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Betty, I assure you I [and I guess many others] want to hear both sides of the argument. 
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Entaxei
Miss M - you are a monologue operating in a monotone.
While I have appreciated her contributions on here, providing some balance, there has always been a slight doubt in the back of my mind. Something not quite right.Along with MPN11, I have had a nagging doubt that she - we assume 'she', not unreasonably - isn't quite what she appears to be. "Lucid, literate and persistent" MPN11 said and she is all of that, but when compared to the iconic Watersidewonker and the desperate woman based in Johannesburg, something doesn't quite ring true.
I was once actually accused, by a boss (who was an @rsehole admitedly) of being 'too articulate' - which meant I used big words like marmalade and corrugated that he couldn't understand - and I wonder if this is a similar assessment? Nothing personal and I certainly don't want to play the man, I just want the ball to be a genuine game ball, not a 'ringer'.
Roger.
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I am pretty sure that Miss M is a real poster.
Someone with a longer version of that name posts on another forum, and I have been told that it is male.
Surprising as it may seem, many cabin crew are articulate, even if you don't happen to agree with what they say!
Someone with a longer version of that name posts on another forum, and I have been told that it is male.
Surprising as it may seem, many cabin crew are articulate, even if you don't happen to agree with what they say!
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Originally Posted by LandRoger
I was once actually accused, by a boss (who was an @rsehole admitedly) of being 'too articulate' - which meant I used big words like marmalade and corrugated that he couldn't understand
I use "marmalade" and "wardrobe". "Corrugated" is a dirty word
Originally Posted by BettyGirl
I am pretty sure that Miss M is a real poster.
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One has to wonder why MissM is pretty much the only BASSA cabin crew member who posts on here.
I am entertained by his/her posts and there is definitely evidence that some of what is said here is registering, although there is also evidence that some of what is pointed out is simply ignored; one should remember that those crew who do frequent pprune probably do not post and simply lurk. Maybe only dipping in from time to time, rather than reading “religiously”. So there is value in setting out the position afresh.
Hence the need to reference and evidence any statements made.
It does seem to me that the 5,811 “hardcore” turkeys would probably vote for Christmas if someone from BASSA told them they’d get a good feed in beforehand. Much as I enjoy my regular interactions with crew on board, it is often (though not exclusively) the case that I am not dealing with the sharpest business brains. The decision to “trust” BASSA appears to be more of an emotional one rather than a deeply considered objective position.
It is clear that those who remain members of BASSA are harming themselves financially by denying themselves a pay rise, and paying union dues, harming the company for which they work and damaging the reputation of Unionism. BASSA is no longer a “Union” in the true sense of the word as its refusal to hold democratic elections, make its accounts publicly available and repeated refusal to allow crew to vote on proposed settlements demonstrate it is now following the agenda of the few and not the many.
I think DH’s employment tribunal judgement should be available today; it will make interesting reading, and I hope is widely circulated to cabin crew to evidence the sort of practices that their well remunerated rep thought he could engage in.
Far from quivering in my Church’s at the thought of a strike, I’m rather disappointed there doesn’t seem to be one in the offing; it would be a perfect opportunity for the turkeys to let off steam (and possible get broiled in the process), as well as demonstrating BASSA’s impotence. I’ve also never experienced a VCC flight (though have flown several sectors during previous strikes) and was rather looking forward to experiencing it.
One point of interest is the ending of the Facilities Agreement by BASSA reps themselves; I have seen this stated quite a few times, but is there any incontrovertible EVIDENCE this actually happened?
I am entertained by his/her posts and there is definitely evidence that some of what is said here is registering, although there is also evidence that some of what is pointed out is simply ignored; one should remember that those crew who do frequent pprune probably do not post and simply lurk. Maybe only dipping in from time to time, rather than reading “religiously”. So there is value in setting out the position afresh.
Hence the need to reference and evidence any statements made.
It does seem to me that the 5,811 “hardcore” turkeys would probably vote for Christmas if someone from BASSA told them they’d get a good feed in beforehand. Much as I enjoy my regular interactions with crew on board, it is often (though not exclusively) the case that I am not dealing with the sharpest business brains. The decision to “trust” BASSA appears to be more of an emotional one rather than a deeply considered objective position.
It is clear that those who remain members of BASSA are harming themselves financially by denying themselves a pay rise, and paying union dues, harming the company for which they work and damaging the reputation of Unionism. BASSA is no longer a “Union” in the true sense of the word as its refusal to hold democratic elections, make its accounts publicly available and repeated refusal to allow crew to vote on proposed settlements demonstrate it is now following the agenda of the few and not the many.
I think DH’s employment tribunal judgement should be available today; it will make interesting reading, and I hope is widely circulated to cabin crew to evidence the sort of practices that their well remunerated rep thought he could engage in.
Far from quivering in my Church’s at the thought of a strike, I’m rather disappointed there doesn’t seem to be one in the offing; it would be a perfect opportunity for the turkeys to let off steam (and possible get broiled in the process), as well as demonstrating BASSA’s impotence. I’ve also never experienced a VCC flight (though have flown several sectors during previous strikes) and was rather looking forward to experiencing it.
One point of interest is the ending of the Facilities Agreement by BASSA reps themselves; I have seen this stated quite a few times, but is there any incontrovertible EVIDENCE this actually happened?
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One point of interest is the ending of the Facilities Agreement by BASSA reps themselves; I have seen this stated quite a few times, but is there any incontrovertible EVIDENCE this actually happened?
As for BASSA supporters posting, remember, to listen and understand is not to condone, and it is good to at least see contributions from the other side that are considerably better than some of the puerile/vitriolic bile that goes on elsewhere. Ultimately, both sides are going to have to move on this, and talking and listening is good.
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Originally Posted by LD12986
Ultimately, both sides are going to have to move on this, and talking and listening is good.
There simply has to be a sensible way out of this impasse ... whether anyone on the Union side is interested in a solution, other than on their terms, is the core question. And I think many of us believe that there are some on the Union side whose self-interest may, possibly, exceed their interest in achieving a settlement for their members.
Whatever ... I fly BA, as usual. Thanks, BA supporters and VCC
