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BA Strike - Your Thoughts & Questions V

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BA Strike - Your Thoughts & Questions V

Old 2nd Apr 2011, 21:31
  #281 (permalink)  
 
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You are right about guaranteeing the future, nobody can. However a case could be made to draw build assurances into an agreement that takes into account downsizing etc. Speaking from my slightly left of centre viewpoint, you can write what you want, but SOSR overrides it anyway.
Good evening Litebulbs.

Although no company does guarantee anyone's T&C's, BA actually did originally. In the initial negotiations (term used loosely) we were offered a Monthly Travel Payment MTP to replace existing allowances. It was even calculated on the year 2008/9 (high profit) allowances.

BASSA said no and walked out the room.

Had we had the MTP last year, with ash cloud, snow disruption and now this year with all the flight disruption due to political unrest/natural disasters we would have undoubtedly been quids in.

To see Miss M demanding a guarantee now, whilst still funding the union that threw it away, makes me weep.
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Old 2nd Apr 2011, 21:39
  #282 (permalink)  
 
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But what is your understanding of what they actually want?
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Old 2nd Apr 2011, 21:43
  #283 (permalink)  
 
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Hi HiFlyer,

I'm glad you popped in, as I was struggling with my own question!

What can I say, that hasn't already been said in a court decision explaining the whole union divide.
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Old 2nd Apr 2011, 21:47
  #284 (permalink)  
 
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.... I would let them get on with it but issue a warning to the union members stating that BA considers the action unprotected because of the language in the published reasons to strike specifically linking this IA to the previous and mentioning the possible consequences of taking unprotected action.

I would also put the Union on written notice of the liabilities of their calling unprotected action.

Then I would sit back and see just exactly what happens. I would take the opportunity to see just exactly how many of the CC were prepared to go out on strike under these circumstances which would give BA a much needed calibration of the real current size of the problem (and not the size based on "sending BA a message") remembering that it was down from 4900 to 4400 at the end of the last period of IA.

Depending upon the remaining size of the real problem I would then decide on my next action.

What would you do if you were BA?
Agree with this.

Looking at the way BA has allowed this to drift on with long periods of inactivity (as regards negotiations) whilst building up VCC and Mixed Fleet, I think BA will just try and see it out. BA has had a year to plan for further strikes.

I really do wonder how much appetite there really is for further strikes. There will be a lot of empty promises in those yes votes. Also add that since last year we have 20% VAT, higher fuel prices, inflation, weak consumer confidence...
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Old 2nd Apr 2011, 21:52
  #285 (permalink)  
 
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AV Flyer

OK, visible figures on the growth of MF.
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Old 2nd Apr 2011, 21:53
  #286 (permalink)  
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Litebulbs
If you take out all other factors, then seeing a new fleet of employees on minimum wage plus expenses, when you are either above or a long way above that position, will bring a certain amount of fear for your future. That will be the majority position. There will be some who are at the very top, who will be fearful of far more than that, but it is the majority who count and it will be the majority that will decide the end to this
It has been said before, whilst the printing unions DID get thrown out completely, BASSA are being offered a continuation of their lovely terms for their working lives - I think that's the case?

I've been working for 33 years since I left college (in more than one field) and I have seen so many ivory towers pulled down that when I saw them advancing on the one in which I was standing, my main thought was, "Well I've had a good run" But, it looks as if these folks keep their Ts&Cs and have to work a bit harder? In the middle of the worst recession since the Depression, that is a job that thousands want. To jeopardise all that they have worked for?

That is what I don't understand. YES, I can understand that it's not nice to see new generations coming in on less but that's the case in ALL lines of work, because we in the UK have increasingly overpaid ourselves - now it's time for a market correction.
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Old 2nd Apr 2011, 22:15
  #287 (permalink)  
 
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The print unions went because of technology (simplistic I know), but crew will be here to stay. The demise of the rates of pay for crew at BA is inevitable as the new contract is is place.

I doubt if there will be any more redundancies, unless there is a downsize, or the senior grades go to be replaced by something like a non union management flying grade, so SOSR will be the only way to remove current terms. By all accounts, this would have already have happened when the fight was on. So to me, all it needs is to explain this in an honest manner, which should remove the fear.
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Old 2nd Apr 2011, 22:19
  #288 (permalink)  
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all it needs is to explain this in an honest manner, which should remove the fear.
But, and this a big but, before that can have the slightest chance of working far more cabin crew need to be convinced that BA is telling the truth, or BASSA needs to be telling the same thing.

The mis-trust of management is, I think, far deeper than a lot realise and is not confined to LHR
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Old 2nd Apr 2011, 22:24
  #289 (permalink)  
 
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Angel

Hi Litebulbs,

I watched the whole of that series 'The British at Work' that you mentioned and posted a link to in your post 250. It was a really interesting.

As you know I was not in favour of the strike and agree with Hi Flyer about how badly this was handled by the Union and in some ways by BA too. One of my biggest concerns, as well as wanting to maintain my own income due to my commitments ( which I believe will be maintained), was the terms and conditions of Mixed Fleet which unfortunately have been set very low, definitely not market rate plus 10%.

What I found very interesting in that documentary was the statistic that in 1995, chief executives earned on average 44 times more that the average uk wage; I thought that was high until they went on to say that TODAY chief executives now earn 88 times more than the average wage!!That has happened over just a 15 years period, the same period that the general wages are been pushed down!


Many of us are unhappy with what the union has done and were not happy to go out on strike but even people like me are starting to worry about this general trend for companies, not just BA, to offer the lowest wage possible and this general attitude, particularly found on this thread, that people no longer deserve to earn a good wage anymore and should be thankful they have a job.
Meanwhile, the city and fat cats get richer!! Maybe I am turning into a lefty too. Well a little more left than I used to be!!!

Take care.
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Old 2nd Apr 2011, 22:27
  #290 (permalink)  
 
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west lakes

This does not necessarily have to come from BA. BA could write a legal document and send it to Unite prior to releasing it to the crew community. Unite would have to respond if its view varied.

I remember getting flamed for saying that even if a redundancy was voluntary, it was will a dismissal, much like retirement.
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Old 2nd Apr 2011, 22:33
  #291 (permalink)  
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Litebulbs

I don't disagree, but both sides would still have to tell the same words. If the reports that a lot of CC just bin BA letters & delete emails without reading them are correct

Given the report I was given of the response of a fairly new crew member, in a crew room near you, to the suggestion she might like to meet the duty managers!
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Old 2nd Apr 2011, 22:38
  #292 (permalink)  
 
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Hi Betty,

The minimum wage was a success as long as you were below it. The problem comes if your job is affected by its gravity and its slow, weak but relentless pull towards it. BA is no different to any other business but it is frustrating.

As for the show, I enjoyed it but felt it was right leaning. No doubt as it was a BBC show, many on this thread will think it was the other way. Maybe that was its intention.
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Old 2nd Apr 2011, 22:43
  #293 (permalink)  
 
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west lakes

My point (badly made) is that Unite and BA came to an agreement on a deal, so Unite and BA could agree a set of words that will lay out the law on what can and cannot be done, which could remove fear.

How could a branch reject that?
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Old 2nd Apr 2011, 22:47
  #294 (permalink)  
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How could a branch reject that?
Weeeeellllllllllll ..................... in a sensible world it would work (we often get joint union/employer statements.

But I, very sadly, don't think this dispute is in a sensible world. Nor as we know are the full time officials in a position to dictate to a branch! Unless they decide to rigidly enforce the rules of the union which could see the branch dissolved (Somehow I can't see that occurring)
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Old 2nd Apr 2011, 22:48
  #295 (permalink)  
 
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Angel

Well Litebulbs I think the program veered from right to left!

Sometimes it showed the inefficiency of union regulations but other times it highlighted the good unions did for the ordinary worker. Then on the other hand it highlighted what the free market did but it also showed the excesses of that too, so for me I felt it was quite balanced.

Anyway we digress from the thread topic, well only a little, it is sort of linked.
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Old 2nd Apr 2011, 23:01
  #296 (permalink)  
 
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What happened with the deal that was brokered in my opinion, was that there was not enough supporting information. Unite is the union and if Unite wants to inform its members of a legal position then that is what Unite should do.

You cannot dress up a legal view and in my opinion it is only going to outline a minimum position. The courts did this with the manning levels, but the perceived growth of MF and how it can legally happen is something that could be clearly stated.
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Old 2nd Apr 2011, 23:08
  #297 (permalink)  
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Litebulbs

True enough, I'm still part convinced that somewhere is an agreement with the Unions that if the branch (in whichever department) is proving difficult, the union can take over negotiations (we have this).
In which case the branch should step back. Somehow, if this exists, I can't see the branch complying.


Oh touching back to the R5 discussion, I noticed the name Nikki mentioned as one of the BASSA contributors. I wonder if this was the same one seen in the video on the Bath Rd wearing a "striking" pair of white boxers? If so she is no longer employed by BA as far as I know.
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Old 2nd Apr 2011, 23:09
  #298 (permalink)  
 
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Litebulbs - "How could a branch reject that?"

Under normal circumstances I agree and don't think a branch would turn-down an agreement negotiated by a union on those terms.

However, you do realise that - BASSA's (read DH's and senior Rep's) problem is not MF fleet size, nor suspensions, nor working on-down, nor any other specific matter, BASSA's problem is that unless an idea originates from THEM it will be automatically rejected and if push comes to shove they will go on strike to get their way thus giving BASSA complete control over IFCE operations - don't you?

This is quite simply one monumental power struggle for who is in control and under these circumstances BASSA will never, never, never, accept anything that it doesn't propose and will strike if anything it proposes is not accepted by BA.

This is a fight to the death and neither BA or BASSA can or will back down until one or the other is overthrown - and I think we all know who that will be.

Even now BASSA's leadership have no concept of BA having any control over IFCE operations and think that the entire success of BA is directly attributable to their running the most and probably only important part of the company. They also believe, even now, that BA is going to back-down and they will 'win'. They believe they have a hot-line to the CEO of the company and are still confused how the CEO has been able to ignore them for the past few months given BASSA's vital importance to the running of BA.

They have no understanding or perception even of the intellectual differences and abilities between themselves and those on the BA Board and believe their understanding of what is good for BA should stand.

Such is the deception that accompanies megalomania.

Last edited by AV Flyer; 3rd Apr 2011 at 14:15.
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Old 2nd Apr 2011, 23:17
  #299 (permalink)  
 
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AV Flyer

It is a trade dispute, no more no less. What the reps should fear is if they become to disconnected from the mother union, then if BA were to target them and use SOSR, then they would be on their own.

However, I am talking from a moderate union position and doubt if I will be having tea and biscuits with the top table any time soon, solidarity or no solidarity comrade!
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Old 2nd Apr 2011, 23:18
  #300 (permalink)  
 
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west lakes

I believe that Bassa have a constitution that does not allow this.
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