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BA Strike - Your Thoughts & Questions V

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BA Strike - Your Thoughts & Questions V

Old 2nd Apr 2011, 19:25
  #261 (permalink)  
 
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MPN11

Not hard ball at all and all valid points, but I would suggest that you are talking about the extremes, rather than the majority.

If you take out all other factors, then seeing a new fleet of employees on minimum wage plus expenses, when you are either above or a long way above that position, will bring a certain amount of fear for your future. That will be the majority position. There will be some who are at the very top, who will be fearful of far more than that, but it is the majority who count and it will be the majority that will decide the end to this.

As to a career change, if you go from one profession to another, but retain a package broadly the same, then all well and good. The elephant in the room here, is that you will have a large number of employees who are type cast to the current job and ALL of its benefits and whose most recent training has been solely for there current job. To take those skills to an equivalent UK based employer will in all probability lead to a pay cut.

So to put it simply, BA crew are paid on the face of it, above the market rate for the role in the UK and their employer has introduced new employees below this. If it was me, I would be worried and be striving for watertight guarantees. Whether they are achievable is the discussion point.
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Old 2nd Apr 2011, 19:28
  #262 (permalink)  
 
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Having started to take back control for IFCE operations, BA management now has no choice but to start doing the job it should have been doing all along and for which its neglect led to this sorry situation in the first place.

BA's choice not to take the dismissal/SOSR route means that it now needs to start working with its current WW LHR CSDs, PSRs & CC to create together and implement appropriate crew performance management procedures, etc., such that the consistent high customer experience that it is going to need to compete with other WW airlines in the years ahead is reached and maintained.

There will be much resistance and friction along the lines of "Windowsgate", etc., but BA has no choice having taken back the reins to now inspire and lead its CC into delivering new and higher levels of in-flight customer experience.

If BA management does not step up to the responsibilities it has recovered then the LHR WW CC will be in a vacuum and will rapidly regress back to the prior situation.

AVF
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Old 2nd Apr 2011, 19:35
  #263 (permalink)  
 
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Sorry Litebulbs but any professional who is grumpy with customers because they have a grudge against their boss isn't a professional. Perhaps that is part of the problem - they just aren't suited to customer service roles.

"So to put it simply, BA crew are paid on the face of it, above the market rate for the role in the UK and their employer has introduced new employees below this. If it was me, I would be worried and be striking for watertight guarantees. Whether they are achievable is the discussion point."

This, Litebulbs, is a smoke screen. The original dispute (from which all other disputes arise) was about imposition and "No negotiation". It is a sad sign of the mess that this dispute has become that Cabin Crew seem to have forgotten what it was they started striking about.
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Old 2nd Apr 2011, 19:40
  #264 (permalink)  
 
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BetterByBoat

I don't know if it makes a difference, but striking was a typo and I have changed it to striving.
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Old 2nd Apr 2011, 19:44
  #265 (permalink)  
 
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Litebulbs

Not hard ball at all and all valid points, but I would suggest that you are talking about the extremes, rather than the majority.
So much has been extremes, hasn't it!

If you take out all other factors, then seeing a new fleet of employees on minimum wage plus expenses, when you are either above or a long way above that position, will bring a certain amount of fear for your future. That will be the majority position. There will be some who are at the very top, who will be fearful of far more than that, but it is the majority who count and it will be the majority that will decide the end to this.
i can understand that ... but nothing in life is ever guaranteed. The futility I see in this is that BA are NOT changing existing T&Cs, they are just recruiting the successors on newer, cheaper terms. period!

As to a career change, if you go from one profession to another, but retain a package broadly the same, then all well and good. The elephant in the room here, is that you will have a large number of employees who are type cast to the current job and ALL of its benefits and whose training has been solely for there current job. To take those skills to an equivalent UK based employer will in all probability lead to a pay cut.
Ahhh ... type-cast indeed! There's another issue!! That's what happens when you embark on a full-time career with no other external options. That's what MF is designed to allow - a few years travelling with work before settling down.

So to put it simply, BA crew are paid on the face of it, above the market rate for the role in the UK and their employer has introduced new employees below this. If it was me, I would be worried and be striking for watertight guarantees. Whether they are achievable is the discussion point.
Yes, over-paid by Industry standards, and expecting guarantees that simply aren't going to be offered in the 21st Century. If any BA CC can produce documentary evidence that says "You have a job for life on your existing pay rates" I'll willingly be amazed.

The World changes. HMG is now about to prune the Military to un-heard of levels, and making redundant the very people whose lives are on the line in 'Stan. The majority of those signed up to do 22 years [if they got promoted far enough, and lived long enough] ... they may not now get to do the 22, one way or another.

You will understand that I really don't have a huge degree of empathy with those senior CC who expect to remain in post, on fixed T&Cs, until they draw their State Pension [or whatever BA's employment cut-off is]. However, BA seems to be allowing that ... and for which BASSA calls for strikes? Can you see the illogicality of that?
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Old 2nd Apr 2011, 19:46
  #266 (permalink)  
 
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Moving Forwards under BA Management

The Union's responsibility will be to work collaboratively and constructively together with BA management in providing practical feed-back and recommendations from its vast experience in actually delivering the IFCE service to BA's customers.

A sensible and intelligent management will always respect constructive and hard experience-learnt recommendations regarding the practicalities of service delivery and will tailor its programmes to incorporate this extremely valuable in-house knowledge accordingly.

With careful financial mangement and respect of the situation by both sides an improved customer service combined with the recognition that WW CC numbers will be diminishing over time will all help to support and justify the continuing higher salaries paid.

AVF
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Old 2nd Apr 2011, 20:05
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Perfect, Sir Humphrey
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Old 2nd Apr 2011, 20:09
  #268 (permalink)  
 
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MPN11

You are right about guaranteeing the future, nobody can. However a case could be made to draw build assurances into an agreement that takes into account downsizing etc. Speaking from my slightly left of centre viewpoint, you can write what you want, but SOSR overrides it anyway
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Old 2nd Apr 2011, 20:10
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AV Flyer

Ditto to MPN11!
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Old 2nd Apr 2011, 20:19
  #270 (permalink)  
 
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One thing that is forgotten in this debate is that CC are able to apply for other roles via the internal system like any other staff member.

I know of many who have, and some of those ended up in senior management roles, including Joy Hordern who went on to become Head of CC in the late 1990's.

There is no neccesity to stay as CC throughout your BA career, but thousands do, because they enjoy the lifestyle and the generous allowances.
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Old 2nd Apr 2011, 20:26
  #271 (permalink)  
 
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The latest from MissM
BA have trained thousands of VCC's and their only purpose is to destroy our strike. Is that to show respect toward a loyal workforce? Another example is BA have also completely ignored a long-standing agreement with regards to part-time contract. Crew have been offered part-time over others who are on the part-time list. Many have been waiting years and are stll waiting. Is that respectful?
A curious view.

I thought the idea of an airline was to provide a service to the paying SLF, and if the regular over-paid staff won't do it then someone else will ... to help the Company as well as the SLF.

Silly me. I must visit Planet BASSA more often.

Enough for today ... I'm beaming myself back to Planet Reality.
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Old 2nd Apr 2011, 20:27
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Drawing from the other thread ( my emphasis ) by Miss M

BA have trained thousands of VCC's and their only purpose is to destroy our strike. Is that to show respect toward a loyal workforce?
Absolutely superb. Would anyone like to try and teach this woman the meaning of irony ?
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Old 2nd Apr 2011, 20:36
  #273 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by MissM
BA have trained thousands of VCC's and their only purpose is to destroy our strike.
I disagree with that assertion. VCCs already serve other useful purposes, for instance to:
  1. provide a supplementary, trained team of people in times of operational stress (e.g.snow/poor weather) when other staff may not be able to report for work
  2. ensure that if BASSA refuses to permit invocation of the Disruption Agreement (as it has several times in the past year) BA can still get its customers home
  3. enable variety of experience to desk based staff
  4. ensure management have a genuine perspective of how their decisions impact the "coal face", and feedback changes where necessary

All of the above are valid reasons for deploying VCC, beyond simply strike breaking. VCC will continue long after BASSA is forgotten.
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Old 2nd Apr 2011, 20:45
  #274 (permalink)  
 
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I suspect there are many BA cabin crew who, whilst not overtly militant, have become so conditioned to believing whatever BASSA say that if BA said today (Saturday) is Saturday and BASSA said no it's Wednesday, they'd believe BASSA.

There also seems to be a view that cabin crew have unfettered right to strike which must reign supreme and anything done that impedes the impact of a strike is a complete abherration.
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Old 2nd Apr 2011, 20:57
  #275 (permalink)  
 
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If you were BA

If, as and when a strike is called, would you -

  • pursue an injunction
  • explore the legality
  • let them get on with it
Each sends a message.
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Old 2nd Apr 2011, 21:06
  #276 (permalink)  
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Or take advice to decide if it was unprotected, than seek damages from the union band possibly dismiss striking staff or warn them they face dismissal.?

I somehow don't think that seeking an injunction to see if it is unprotected or not makes any sense.
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Old 2nd Apr 2011, 21:35
  #277 (permalink)  
 
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MPN11 & Litebulbs

Good. Well that's all decided then!

Seriously, back in the real world, this thing has an awful long way to play-out yet and vestiges of it may never go away.......
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Old 2nd Apr 2011, 21:38
  #278 (permalink)  
 
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Yep, just 6000 to go!
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Old 2nd Apr 2011, 22:21
  #279 (permalink)  
 
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Litebulbs - If I were BA ......

.... I would let them get on with it but issue a warning to the union members stating that BA considers the action unprotected because of the language in the published reasons to strike specifically linking this IA to the previous and mentioning the possible consequences of taking unprotected action - which may be news to some as the Union, in all its bravado, appears to have been remiss in advising its members of the consequences of their actions.

I would also put the Union on written notice of the liabilities of their calling unprotected action.

Then I would sit back and see just exactly what happens. I would take the opportunity to see just exactly how many of the CC were prepared to go out on strike under these circumstances which would give BA a much needed calibration of the real current size of the problem (and not the size based on "sending BA a message") remembering that it was down from 4900 to 4400 at the end of the last period of IA.

Depending upon the remaining size of the real problem I would then decide on my next action.

What would you do if you were BA?

Last edited by AV Flyer; 2nd Apr 2011 at 22:33.
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Old 2nd Apr 2011, 22:26
  #280 (permalink)  
 
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Give in and give them what they want!
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