BA Strike - Your Thoughts & Questions III

[AlpineSkier]

I followed notlangley's link to Santa's Crew and here are just a few comments on there.

The whole Country is disusted with BA in general for this, and even more so for Willy Walsh

am utterly disgusted that BA could do such a foul deed, especially as Christmas is coming up.

punished for caring too much and for years of dedication .....I hope the world now sees whats truely happening.

Do not be fooled, our Union is getting stronger and stronger by the minute

I had previously read posts talking about cult-behaviour and just accepted it as rhetoric. Now. reading examples of member to member exchanges, I am astonished.

These posters really do seem to believe the eyes of the world are upon them and bars and offices reverberate incessantly with rolling condemnations of BA and Willy.

That there are people who are so deluded who can put up a front and appear otherwise normal (presumably) is just bizarre.

I especially appreciated the (unintended) irony in the "foul deed at Christmas" remark when one recalls the intended 12 days of Christmas strike in 2009. A real " biter bit" moment and the last comment must come from the pen of the speech-writer of "Comical Ali" , the Iraqi Propaganda Minister , who was proclaiming that the Americans were in full retreat even as he was being encircled by their tanks !

[RTR]

I believe that sooner rather than later the government WILL act to control some aspects of union activity that goes unfairly against those who do not want constant threats of IA. Unions have to accept that using tactics that date back to the '70's is not, and never will be, acceptable. But what do we have now? ASLEF have jumped on the bandwagon along with Unite and RMT run by three of the worst union protagonists of modern times, who constantly find one reason or another, it seems not to matter what, to hammer the employers.

Just look at Unite's reasoning (?) unprotected prospect of a strike! RMT's - safety - well maybe! ASLEF - triple pay and a day off in lieu. Having ignored a previous agreement. And all well paid employees!

[notlangley]

I believe that UK law is ok as it is._ What is exceptionally dificult about cabin crew is that the working force is large but the constant shuffling of personnel for each tour, means that cc very rarely see a colleague ever again (well they do, but so infrequently that it is like meeting a stranger)._ What cc89 once did idealistically was to name and display their shop stewards -____link
Sadly this did not work.

I believe that workers need Unions to prevent the lazy drift to employer exploitation._ The problem is how to get local representatives that are not randomly chosen but are activists._ Yet also to prevent the local representatives going beyond escape velocity and settling down to live on a distant planet.

I think it might possibly help if the constitution of Associations forced the resignation of pursers/managers/etc as and when there are promotions from the ranks (on the basis of FIFO - "first in first out") to keep the proportion of seniors down to 10%.

[ZimmerFly]

Not one mention of the word "Bully" so beloved by Unite/BASSA

Willie Walsh: Hero

Chief executive, British Airways

Willie Walsh has had a good year. Arguably the gods have not been on his side, what with volcanic ash in April and unmanageable snowfall in December. But Mr Walsh has won victories in his campaign to drag Britain's once-public flagcarrier into the modern age. First, merger negotiations with Spain's Iberia finally came together. Then BA's not-quite-merger with American Airlines was cleared by regulators on both sides of the Atlantic, notwithstanding the opposition of rival Sir Richard Branson. Even Mr Walsh's stand-off with the trade unions, facing down repeated strikes over terms and conditions for cabin staff, can be considered a success. The spat is not over – Unite is re-balloting its 10,000 BA members and warning the row is "deepening". But in reality the terms and conditions are already in force, BA kept most of its planes flying during the strikes, and the public appetite is waning for industrial action by people lucky enough to have jobs.

The business heroes and villains of 2010 - Business Analysis & Features, Business - The Independent

[TSR2]

and the public appetite is waning for industrial action by people lucky enough to have jobs.

Should read :

...... by people lucky enough to have very good, and very well paid jobs.

[AA SLF]

The delightful, erudite Miss M is back in the other thread. You simply have to read her postings to believe that there are people who believe it is their right to dictate to company management how to run the business!!

Is it something in the water in the UK that causes so many UK citizens to behave/believe this way??

[Litebulbs]

Its probably because of things like business lobbying for the right of an employee, not to be unfairly dismissed, having its qualification timescale increased 100% to two years. So that means an employer can sack you for almost any reason, without recourse in that timescale. But hey, that's business.

[pvmw]

Its probably because of things like business lobbying for the right of an employee,........

Hardly on Miss M's agenda. She is much more concerned with hot towels, and the right of BASSA to dictate company policy.

[Litebulbs]

Anyway, Merry Christmas to all who contribute on here. Lets all wish for a sensible 2011.

[MPN11]

I was wondering when "The Season of Good Will" was going to kick in

Same to all of you, and best wishes for 2011 [whatever it may look like].

[Landroger]

Litebulbs.

Anyway, Merry Christmas to all who contribute on here. Lets all wish for a sensible 2011.

Amen to that LB and thank you for your erudite and reasoned contributions to this thread.

Ordinarily, I suspect, we would not agree on political matters, but I can see and understand your point of view in this matter and appreciate the clarifying effect it has had.

Roger.

[baggersup]

Sometimes one gets a hint of the hubris among a few of the cabin crew, as on the long haul from which I just disembarked at T5, the CSD made his first announcement saying very assuredly and with great hauteur, "I and my team in the cabin will be taking you to London tonight..."

Really? Woohoo. LOL

No mention of the chappies up front actually flying the thing. Perhaps a more inclusive "our flight crew and the cabin crew will be doing our best to make sure you have a pleasant flight to London tonight..." or soomat.

It was quite astonishing, actually, and the hubris came through in the way it was announced.

So sometimes you can see what Mr. Walsh is up against in some corners. He quickly disappeared however and we never saw him nor heard from him again, I believe. Two different women made the rest of the announcements.

It was actually rather funny, if it didn't perhaps indicate something deeper amiss in the attitudes....

T5 was the picture of sanguine luxury, empty and no hint of the recent traumas. Amazing. The arrivals lounge had about 10 of us--tops. And the staff were all in good cheer on both sides of the Atlantic. Extremely helpful to all who were confused or needed a special hand.

Every BA staffer from start to finish was superb dealing with working on a holiday etc. That CSD was the only silly "off" note of the entire experience.

Thanks BA!

[scotbill]

Crewfriend

It beggars belief that the troll using this name on the other forum is proud to report that he/she managed to inconvenience a planeload of longhaul passengers at Christmas time by insisting on two local nights rest in a disruption situation. If true, such a person is clearly totally unsuited for the profession which is currently rewarding them so handsomely.
However, if BA management actually permitted this gross dereliction of duty. then they must be held equally culpable.

[TopBunk]

I would not be surprised if Crewfriend is not rather overclaiming his/her instransigence as being the reason for achieving 48 hours due to a diversion.

If it indeed happened, I suspect it to be more likely as a result of the pre-Christmas disruption that saw up to 30 aircraft displaced from LHR/LGW due to closures for periods of several days.

It is likely to be just more BASSA bluster, imho. One thing for sure, when the Disruption Agreement is invoked (imposed or agreed), then any crew member claiming 2 nights would be instantly carpeted to explain themselves, at this risk of suspension etc.

As I said, nothing to see here, move along, it's just BASSA bollox (again).

[BetterByBoat]

Sorry TopBunk but I' don't see how this is BASSA b****x - Crewfriend (if the forums are to be believed) is British Airways cabin crew and it is time that cabin crew started to accept a huge proportion of the blame for this mess. It was cabin crew after all that voted 4 to 1 in favour of the strike action earlier this year (and that was after the Xmas 2009 debacle so they were well aware of what they were doing).

Perhaps we should start to consider that Crewfriend may well be far more representative of BA cabin crew than Litebulbs or Betty Girl, even if we find Crewfriends views out of touch with reality and bizarre for someone who is in such a service oriented industry. Certainly spikes in sickness rates amongst Cabin Crew is nothing new. Always seem to get lots of hay fever sufferers at the same time as Royal Ascot.

Like any other profession there are good and bad and excellent and poor employees within BA cabin crew. But it is cabin crew that voted overwhelmingly for the initial strike and it is in cabin crews hands to vote "no" to further strike action. Blaming Bassa for everything is rather missing the point of who actually voted for industrial action in the first place.

[TopBunk]

From the other section:

Originally Posted by Betty Girl

During the recent snow disruption 40 long haul aircraft diverted as LHR had closed on Saturday 18th and the following day the airport remained closed to arriving aircraft. Flights did not return to LHR until Monday 20th. All the diverting aircraft had two local nights but this was due to the airport not accepting arriving flights until Monday and nothing to do with the disruption agreement.

My bold. That is what I was intimating in my previous post, ie Betty Girl agrees.

In words of one syllable - it was the fact that LHR was closed/operating at a very low flow rate that caused the crew to slip at the airport to which they had been diverted, and not cabin crew demanding anything. That lie is the BASSA b****x.

[TightSlot]

Folks

Crewfriend is just a Troll, looking for, and to some extent getting, a reaction.

Best advice would be not to read too much into what He/She/It says

[BetterByBoat]

I understand that there are trolls on both side of this - just can't understand the BASSA bashing and the cries on the crew thread that it is a minority of cabin crew who have voted for strike action in the past. The vote in May does not support that argument.

From Notlangleys post and note that this was after the 22 days of Xmas debacle.

b) valid vote (conducted by the Electoral Reform Service) that ended 22 February 2010

_____________________Total__Yes____No___Spoiled__Not returned
Number of ballot papers_11691_ 7482 __1789___11______2409
Percentages__________100%_-_64.0%_15.3%__0.1%___20.6%

I don't know how many cabin crew BA have but I think it is a fair assessment that the vast majority are (were?) BASSA members and hence included in that ballot paper number. 64% of them voted for strike action. That is a strong madate - on an aircraft crewed by 11 cabin crew, that would be approx 7 who voted for strike action, 2 who voted no to strike action and 2 who didn't vote.

It seems many on this thread like the idea of democracy when it suits them, rather like BASSA. The mandate for the strikes in May 2010 and for the continuation of this mess lies firmly in the hands of those 7400 cabin crew who voted for strike action. The next set of results will be interesting. But it would be useful if we could remember that it is BA cabin crew who are voting and not BASSA. And that it may be that those BA cabin crew we see as "enlightened", "progressive", "forward thinking", "realistic" and "customer focused" are actually the minority of BA cabin crew and not the majority.

As I said earlier, there are poor and excellent "employees" and "management" in all companies. I'm not knocking BA cabin crew. But it is ultimately THEIR choice whether to vote to go on strike, not BASSAs. Bashing BASSA is missing the underlying reason for this continued mess - the simple fact is that the majority of BA cabin crew voted for it.

[LD12986]

The first of three updates from CC89 over Christmas.

. LATEST NEWS UPDATES

24th December 2010 - A Statement

..You can't please ALL of the people ALL of the time.

This week, the possibility of further industrial action came a step closer as you should have already had, or will be receiving soon, a postal ballot for all Unite cabin crew members.

At almost the same time, you may have received Bill Francis's latest attempt to divide and conquer people; a transparent attempt to coerce people to sign up for the last offer on an individual basis. It's a shame that he won't put as much energy into finding a solution. Regrettably, he will not do that because "division" "disillusion" and "desperation" are the corner stones of any "union buster's" handbook.

We believe this controversial "last offer" is already a thing of the past; its time has been and gone. A fresh perspective is needed, some imagination, not stagnation used. However, what is clearly obvious is that a solution does still need to be found and one that will be acceptable to you, one that we feel positive in recommending and that you will feel positive in accepting and yes, that will require hard work, work we are ready and are willing to do, work that Mr Francis, judging by his refusal to even meet, regrettably is not.

If we do not achieve this, then industrial action will certainly happen again and again; it only delays the inevitable and prolongs a situation that presumably everybody wants to see solved.

A settlement that is both fair and reasonable is the only way. Dividing people even further simply isn't. This will be Lenny McCluskey's first challenge and one that we intend to fully support him in reaching a successful conclusion.

We understand how easy it is to become disillusioned with things; our struggle has been going on for a long time - more than a year - we are all human and after all, your reps are only human too. It does require patience, strength, determination, but above all "sticking together".

This can of course sometimes be easier said than done!

It is only natural that there will be a wide range of opinions on what should have happened and when, or what should be done next.
When we were considering putting the last offer to you for ballot and asking for your input, we received emails from members threatening to resign "if we dared to send out such an insulting offer" yet also from members who "couldn't believe that we would dare to NOT ask their opinion in a ballot" - in other words we were damned if we did and damned if we didn't!

However, that is now the past, the challenge now is in what lies ahead.
There is still a willingness from this union to resolve matters but this will not be on our knees, which is ultimately what Bill Francis appears to want. The time available over Christmas should have been spent in finding an offer that could prevent any further disruption to British Airways staff and customers.

Mr Francis should be spending his time finding an offer that all sides are comfortable with.

A future offer must be one that a trade union can, in good faith, put forward with our whole-hearted recommendation, the last one simply wasn't.

If this does not happen, then sooner or later the outcome will be strike action.

Everybody is an expert and everybody would do this or that differently; in the end we must keep it simple and do what we feel is the right thing to do. It is also only right to give you the opportunity to make up your own mind on whether you wish to take industrial action or not.

The bottom line must be what this means for you. We now have a culture of rampant fear within IFCE, not only for the future and what it holds but people are also genuinely frightened when they come to work, scared if they say the wrong thing they will be suspended. All pretence of management honouring our agreements is long gone, mixed fleet is here; it's sink or swim time now for the remaining years of your career.

We urge, not for the first time, British Airways leadership team to come to their senses and to also do the right thing; for them to recognise that bullying and intimidation do not work. We are a strong and determined community and we will never give up this fight until we have won our respect back, no matter how long it takes.

Existing cabin crew are in our own "fight for survival" we have no alternative but to carry on with this struggle until our future is secure, otherwise we simply do not have one.

This is not a time for ill-thought-out sensationalism or opportunist "politicking", but for clear heads and clearer thought. What is important is what can be achieved, what it will mean, and to not lose sight of what is still important; this is NOT just about staff travel, it is ALL about safeguarding your future - you could say it is where it began and where it will end.

When your future security is assured.

At the end of the day, we are a trade union and we make no apologies for that; we are not a branch of management and never will be, nor are we trying to portray ourselves to be what we are not. We are here to try and make your life better, not worse; we have been clear with our message of what will bring peace to the cabin crew community, it's time for British Airways leadership to do the same.

[LD12986]

There are actually now four cabin crew fleets at BA. LGW forgotten about again!

25th December 2010 - And So This Is Christmas

It's Christmas time, a time for peace, for reflection and for family and friends. By the nature of our jobs as cabin crew, it can often be none of these things as we often find ourselves hard at work, or away over the holiday period. Two years ago at this time of year, we warned you that a new fleet and with it, a new regime, was coming. A year ago, we were injuncted by a single judge, which prevented our first attempt to resist imposed changes to our agreements. This year, mixed fleet is here and has begun operating our routes. The things that people said would never happen are now a reality. The union offices have been shut down for over a year, many good friends and colleagues face a Christmas with no job to support their families and thousands of us lost huge sums of money and our staff travel.

So what will next year look like? Our struggle for justice is far from over and yet again, we are having a ballot for industrial action over the holiday season. However, the things that we do still have are our dignity, our belief and our friendship; those that have kept the faith know what that means.

We also have the hope that with new leadership will come a new direction.

We would rather have spent the time, even Christmas day itself, in discussions to find a solution; British Airways has yet again refused to do so, they prefer to engineer strikes to prove their effectiveness as a management to a fawning media, than try to solve things for their own staff, yet alone their customers. They will sit back, do nothing and hope for a low vote for industrial action; they will do nothing unless they have to. The only way to convince them that they are wrong, is to show your determination and to use your vote again.

So be it.

We will remain open to talks at any time and will meet any place for meaningful discussion; in the mean time, we need you to help us by providing a strong message, a message that clearly says, "this is not good enough, we will not be treated like this, we are the best cabin crew in the world so start treating us like it, or you will reap what you sow".

WE have hope because of you and the strength that you give us. If Mr.
Walsh is not careful he will leave behind only a legacy of distrust, disillusionment and a fermenting anger. This dispute is far from over, in the mean time.

May you be well,
may you be happy,
may you in live in peace.

Merry Christmas and safe flying to you and your families.

If you do find yourself in a restrained crew party somewhere in the globe, we have provided a take on a Christmas standard for you to enjoy responsibly with friends!

All together now...

* On the first day of Christmas, Bill Francis sent to me:
A survey to see what I think.

* On the second day of Christmas, Bill Francis sent to me:
Two sacked reps
and a survey to see what I think.

* On the third day of Christmas, Bill Francis sent to me:
Three separate fleets,
Two sacked reps
and a survey to see what I think.

* On the fourth day of Christmas, Bill Francis sent to me:
Four managers calling,
Three separate fleets,
Two sacked reps
and a survey to see what I think.

* On the fifth day of Christmas, Bill Francis sent to me:
Fi-ve V - C - Cs,
Four managers calling,
Three separate fleets,
Two sacked reps
and a survey to see what I think.

* On the sixth day of Christmas, Bill Francis sent to me:
Six ground staff scabbing,
Fi-ve V - C - Cs,
Four managers calling,
Three separate fleets,
Two sacked reps
and a survey to see what I think.

* On the seventh day of Christmas, Bill Francis sent to me:
Seven pilots laughing,
Six ground staff scabbing,
Fi-ve V - C - Cs,
Four managers calling,
Three separate fleets,
Two sacked reps
and a survey to see what I think.

* On the eighth day of Christmas, Bill Francis sent to me:
Eight days without pay,
Seven pilots laughing,
Six ground staff scabbing,
Fi-ve V - C - Cs,
Four managers calling,
Three separate fleets,
Two sacked reps
and a survey to see what I think.

* On the ninth day of Christmas, Bill Francis sent to me:
Nine weeks of being skint,
Eight days without pay,
Seven pilots laughing,
Six ground staff scabbing,
Fi-ve V - C - Cs,
Four managers calling,
Three separate fleets,
Two sacked reps
and a survey to see what I think.

* On the tenth day of Christmas, Bill Francis sent to me:
Ten crap trips,
Nine weeks of being skint,
Eight days without pay,
Seven pilots laughing,
Six ground staff scabbing,
Fi-ve V - C - Cs,
Four managers calling,
Three separate fleets,
Two sacked reps
and a survey to see what I think.

* On the eleventh day of Christmas, Bill Francis sent to me:
Eleven sacked crew,
Ten crap trips,
Nine weeks of being skint,
Eight days without pay,
Seven pilots laughing,
Six ground staff scabbing,
Fi-ve V - C - Cs,
Four managers calling
Three separate fleets,
Two sacked reps
and a survey to see what I think.

* On the twelfth day of Christmas, Bill Francis sent to me:
Twelve months of dispute,
Eleven sacked crew,
Ten crap trips,
Nine weeks of being skint,
Eight days without pay,
Seven pilots laughing,
Six ground staff scabbing,
Fi-ve V - C - Cs,
Four managers calling,
Three separate fleets,
Two sacked reps
and a survey to see what I think.