BA Strike - Your Thoughts & Questions III
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: LHR
Posts: 741
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
On the other thread someone mentioned that the course for the Terminal staff (bookings, checkin and such) is longer than the Cabin Crew course. That strikes me as odd, can someone in the know confirm this?????
Join Date: May 2010
Location: maidenhead
Posts: 941
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I think it probably is because the training to operate the computer systems and ticketing is very time consuming.
Even when ground staff first start they continue to learn on the job for years as they move though the ground staff grades because there is a great deal to learn when it comes to ticketing and it is quite complex with all the different airlines and ticket types.
Even when ground staff first start they continue to learn on the job for years as they move though the ground staff grades because there is a great deal to learn when it comes to ticketing and it is quite complex with all the different airlines and ticket types.
CAP 371
This has been done to death elsewhere.
The key part of CAP 371 in this debate about New Fleet is section 24, Rules Relating to CC
e) The annual and 28 day limits on flying hours appertaining to flight crew do not apply.
The CC flying hours limits come from another source. Civil Aviation Working time regs, 2004.
Maximum annual working time
9. An employer shall ensure that in any month—
(a)no person employed by him shall act as a crew member during the course of his working time, if during the period of 12 months expiring at the end of the month before the month in question the aggregate block flying time of that person exceeds 900 hours; and
(b)no crew member employed by him shall have a total annual working time of more than 2,000 hours during the period of 12 months expiring at the end of the month before the month in question.
There is an Inspector in the UK's CAA who has draconian poers to enforce this stuff.
The key part of CAP 371 in this debate about New Fleet is section 24, Rules Relating to CC
e) The annual and 28 day limits on flying hours appertaining to flight crew do not apply.
The CC flying hours limits come from another source. Civil Aviation Working time regs, 2004.
Maximum annual working time
9. An employer shall ensure that in any month—
(a)no person employed by him shall act as a crew member during the course of his working time, if during the period of 12 months expiring at the end of the month before the month in question the aggregate block flying time of that person exceeds 900 hours; and
(b)no crew member employed by him shall have a total annual working time of more than 2,000 hours during the period of 12 months expiring at the end of the month before the month in question.
There is an Inspector in the UK's CAA who has draconian poers to enforce this stuff.
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: UK
Posts: 864
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
CAP 371 does not directly apply to ANY BA employee. The relevant documents are all BA documents, they are approved by the CAA and differ from CAP371 in minor ways. The CAA Ops Inspector can be as draconian as he likes but must apply the BA scheme regulations and not those laid down in documents that are not applicable.
Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: Gatwick
Posts: 1,980
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
The regulations that do concern BA is -
The Civil Aviation (Working Time) Regulations 2004
and
The Civil Aviation (Working Time) (Amendment) Regulations 2010
Now, I asked this question the other day. If you took at the first document and schedule 1, there is information on workforce agreements. Now are M/F operating to existing BA agreements, or is there a new one? If there is, has it been agreed, as per the legislation, or are they following CAP 371, which I imagine is a default position?
The Civil Aviation (Working Time) Regulations 2004
and
The Civil Aviation (Working Time) (Amendment) Regulations 2010
Now, I asked this question the other day. If you took at the first document and schedule 1, there is information on workforce agreements. Now are M/F operating to existing BA agreements, or is there a new one? If there is, has it been agreed, as per the legislation, or are they following CAP 371, which I imagine is a default position?
Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: Gatwick
Posts: 1,980
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Found It
There it is.
. LATEST NEWS UPDATES
About a third of the way down and an interesting use of the word agreement, but as I read it, it is still a better document than CAP 371, which allows 210 duty hours per 28 days and the maximum in the MF scheme is 196.
. LATEST NEWS UPDATES
About a third of the way down and an interesting use of the word agreement, but as I read it, it is still a better document than CAP 371, which allows 210 duty hours per 28 days and the maximum in the MF scheme is 196.
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Rugby
Posts: 883
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Litebulbs
Dawdler
If you look at the other thread, it has been suggested that for 11 months, duty hours are 192, with 180 in the last. This gives an average of 44 hours a week on duty. That is not too much below what is the maximum anybody can work, without opting out of the WTD.
Secondly: in reply to Juan, I do not recall saying that the crew did not work hard at all! I did say that a 35hr duty week did not to me seem an onerous committment for a full time worker. This would not have arisen if one CC member had not complained that it was so.
Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: Gatwick
Posts: 1,980
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Dawdler
It may be the case that it is a big number, if they are flying rather than duty hours. The general assumption of those in the know, (both current flight and cabin crew), is that they are duty hours however.
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: 45 yards from a tropical beach
Posts: 1,103
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Mods:
Can we please have a separate thread for Crew Duty Times? This is so boring to those not involved, and nothing to do with:
"BA Strike - Your Thoughts & Questions III."
Until and unless, of course, it becomes the reason for the next strike.
Can we please have a separate thread for Crew Duty Times? This is so boring to those not involved, and nothing to do with:
"BA Strike - Your Thoughts & Questions III."
Until and unless, of course, it becomes the reason for the next strike.
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: USA
Posts: 73
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Performance Bonuses
I am now a retired pax. During my working years bonuses were a significant portion of my compensation when working for others. Some were production based while some were based on my contributions as judged by others. No system was perfect, but all were motivating. For most employees nothing motivates like money and the more money the more motivation. MF has an acknowledged low base pay while providing for performance based bonuses. At this time a pattern of bonus payments has not been established so it is not possible to make judgments about MF’s total annual compensation. Contrary to the posts constantly repeated by some on these threads MF’s annual compensation may be significantly more than some would suggest. Since these bonuses will be discretionary and based on performance analysis MF salaries will vary and the variance will be based on performance. Those providing a consistent excellent service and creating an appropriate atmosphere with other crew members will be rewarded. Those that do not will not be rewarded. If this is not performance based management I am not sure what is.
There are additional ramifications of this salary system. Those that under perform and do not bring their performance up to par may not be terminated but will have a strong incentive, low pay, to leave. They will not be able to just get by and receive the same rewards as those that excel. MF cabin crew will look to their managers for evaluations that will increase their bonus. I dare say there will be no such nonsense as refusing to pass out hot towels with MF.
While a union may still play a roll in many areas the influence over employees will be significantly reduced. An employee will not be able to ignore their manager or the company believing they will not be penalized. While the company may not be able to terminate the employee or lower their base pay they can deny a bonus. I hope BA’s bonus program is generous so excellent performance will be well rewarded.
There are additional ramifications of this salary system. Those that under perform and do not bring their performance up to par may not be terminated but will have a strong incentive, low pay, to leave. They will not be able to just get by and receive the same rewards as those that excel. MF cabin crew will look to their managers for evaluations that will increase their bonus. I dare say there will be no such nonsense as refusing to pass out hot towels with MF.
While a union may still play a roll in many areas the influence over employees will be significantly reduced. An employee will not be able to ignore their manager or the company believing they will not be penalized. While the company may not be able to terminate the employee or lower their base pay they can deny a bonus. I hope BA’s bonus program is generous so excellent performance will be well rewarded.
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: -)
Posts: 300
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Spacesaver seats
British Airways have taken Astraeus Airbus A320 G-STRP on wet lease until 31st March 2011 to act as an operational spare for the Boeing 737-400 fleet at London Gatwick. This should allow the remaining Boeing 737-400s to be fitted with Spacesaver seats from the Boeing 757-200 fleet.
Reference:-___link
Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: Gatwick
Posts: 1,980
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
pcat160
A couple of questions if I may?
What your salary broadly in line with what is seen as a minimum that can be paid?
Did you have a transparent and visible mechanism on how your bonus would be calculated?
Would your bonus be more likely to be able to buy you a car or your shopping for a month?
Could you live off of your basic salary, say in you own owned home?
What your salary broadly in line with what is seen as a minimum that can be paid?
Did you have a transparent and visible mechanism on how your bonus would be calculated?
Would your bonus be more likely to be able to buy you a car or your shopping for a month?
Could you live off of your basic salary, say in you own owned home?
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: UK
Posts: 864
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
notlangley
The seats do not reduce legroom for passengers. The seats are thinner so that the legroom remains the same but the seats themselves take up less space. This allows about one extra row of seats in a 320 or 737.
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: USA
Posts: 73
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
lb
Not sure what you are trying to determine. My answers to your questions would vary depending on position and time. A great deal of my career was spent working independently or managing my own company. My post was not meant to focus on my career but too put forward the possible ramifications of the MF salary scheme. What effects do you think the performance bonuses will have?
Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: Gatwick
Posts: 1,980
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
pcat160
Sorry, it reads as a rubbish post (my one). What I should have asked is whether some sort of performance bonus was more rewarding and easier to measure when you are at the top, rather than the other end of the salary scales?
Cleverly disguised as a responsible adult
Join Date: May 2007
Location: On the western edge of The Moor
Age: 67
Posts: 1,100
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Sort of again but MF are, potentially, on more take home pay than LGW cabin crew. We know how important LGW wages are to the various parts of Unite, so can someone explain the relevance of discussing MF wages!
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Heathrow
Posts: 250
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I thought LGW had made great strides in the past few years and had managed to avoid the fate of closure. Realistically, BA cannot afford to close LGW without reducing the network. Longhaul ex LGW is mainly the leisure routes and forms a useful earner. I doubt that BA would want to abandon that business to VA. I'll concede if times were hard, it might be a possibility, but that is not the case now. Also noteworthy is that in the recent reshuffle, there was a new (well, revived really) role of head of LGW created. I think it is more likely that LGW will be run as an autonomous business unit, with shared common services with LHR. LHR expansion is pretty knackered, so I would expect to see an increase in services out of LCY and LGW in the near future.
Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: Gatwick
Posts: 1,980
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Colonel
I hope you are right, but I bet the threat of closure (separate business unit) is still used. If it wasn't for LGW's premier carrier, EasyJet, there would never be any need for flattening the church for the second runway!
