BA Strike - Your Thoughts & Questions II
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Gatwick & co
Now that we're getting down to the nitty gritty - it seems obvious that Gatwick and LCY CC are shining examples throughout this dispute, both from the viewpoint of backing BA and not striking and, in the manner in which the vast majority have continued to provide first class service to the customers.
With that background, why don't all CC at LGW and LCY who feel that the situation has now gone too far, with yet another call for strike action, simply resign from their respective unions, Amicus, Bassa et al., and join the PCCC.
In doing this, they may bring about the following;
Reduce Bassa's membership to the point where Bassa can no longer maintain their rights of representation.
Provide a quick boost to PCCC's membership level, allowing BA to recognise them as having representation capabilities.
Remove Amicus from the picture, as it would seem that LGW CC have never really been happy with the absorbtion of CC89 and the resulting lack of control of their destiny. (Not that Bassa allowed anybody any control either).
Any thoughts anybody ?
With that background, why don't all CC at LGW and LCY who feel that the situation has now gone too far, with yet another call for strike action, simply resign from their respective unions, Amicus, Bassa et al., and join the PCCC.
In doing this, they may bring about the following;
Reduce Bassa's membership to the point where Bassa can no longer maintain their rights of representation.
Provide a quick boost to PCCC's membership level, allowing BA to recognise them as having representation capabilities.
Remove Amicus from the picture, as it would seem that LGW CC have never really been happy with the absorbtion of CC89 and the resulting lack of control of their destiny. (Not that Bassa allowed anybody any control either).
Any thoughts anybody ?
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Entaxei,
Firstly, LCY crew are not part of Mainline BA but Cityflier so the strike didn't include them at all.
There are only about 150 Unite members left at LGW (estimate).
I think LGW crew (myself included) need a specific LGW union type organisation, whether an actual union or works council or whatever.
I'm all for getting rid of Bassa, as they've done nothing but tarnish our reputation in the last (however many) years.
Firstly, LCY crew are not part of Mainline BA but Cityflier so the strike didn't include them at all.
There are only about 150 Unite members left at LGW (estimate).
I think LGW crew (myself included) need a specific LGW union type organisation, whether an actual union or works council or whatever.
I'm all for getting rid of Bassa, as they've done nothing but tarnish our reputation in the last (however many) years.
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MIDLGW
Thanks for that information, I always did wonder at the 'quiet' LCY part of the organisation that always appeared to be talked about, but never spoke for themselves!! - but never used, so never knew ....
Great news about the likely union membership now in existence at LGW, from the viewpoint of removing the Bassa influence from that area of BA operations and, at least LGW CC have the brains and intelligence to decide for themselves the sensible course of action in this ridiculous dispute amidst all the threats and lies being thrown around by Bassa.
I can understand your comment about the need for a formally structured organisation, I guess things will to resolve themselves once Bassa is dead and muttering.
So apologies for the abortive post, but as always it seemed like a good idea at the time!!
Great news about the likely union membership now in existence at LGW, from the viewpoint of removing the Bassa influence from that area of BA operations and, at least LGW CC have the brains and intelligence to decide for themselves the sensible course of action in this ridiculous dispute amidst all the threats and lies being thrown around by Bassa.
I can understand your comment about the need for a formally structured organisation, I guess things will to resolve themselves once Bassa is dead and muttering.
So apologies for the abortive post, but as always it seemed like a good idea at the time!!
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A reminder:
Ain't it just!
"Unite's crew branch BASSA has been talking about a ballot for the last three months. It does not have the authority to call a ballot," said BA.
"It is clear that BASSA does not represent the majority of cabin crew.
"It is clear that BASSA does not represent the majority of cabin crew.
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“BA sacked my Mum” t-shirts....
I really despair at the mentality of a parent that involves her infants in an industrial dispute. And the union that promotes such an act.
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Entaxei,
Further to MIDLGW's comments, sadly the last thing we at LGW need is another "LHR" Union and a faceless one at that. A "union" that insists on staying annonymous for fear for their safety while letting another crew member take the flak for supposedly being behind it. (An apology and denial from those at the top might have been nice!)
A while back, I asked HiFlyer exactly how many LGW crew are involved in the organising of PCCC. I didn't ask for names, just the number of crew yet HiFlyer declined to answer, once again rolling out the old "fear for the safety of it's organisers" excuse. Sorry, it doesn't wash with me anymore. Been there, got the tee-shirt! And for the record, as far as I'm aware and unless the situation has changed recently, there are no LGW crew involved.
It's a shame as I had high hopes for PCCC but the lack of conviction by those behind it has made me think that they will achieve very little. I now agree with MIDLGW. We need our own representation, run by crew that are not distracted by whats going on up the road and that understand our own issues. How about it, MID?
Further to MIDLGW's comments, sadly the last thing we at LGW need is another "LHR" Union and a faceless one at that. A "union" that insists on staying annonymous for fear for their safety while letting another crew member take the flak for supposedly being behind it. (An apology and denial from those at the top might have been nice!)
A while back, I asked HiFlyer exactly how many LGW crew are involved in the organising of PCCC. I didn't ask for names, just the number of crew yet HiFlyer declined to answer, once again rolling out the old "fear for the safety of it's organisers" excuse. Sorry, it doesn't wash with me anymore. Been there, got the tee-shirt! And for the record, as far as I'm aware and unless the situation has changed recently, there are no LGW crew involved.
It's a shame as I had high hopes for PCCC but the lack of conviction by those behind it has made me think that they will achieve very little. I now agree with MIDLGW. We need our own representation, run by crew that are not distracted by whats going on up the road and that understand our own issues. How about it, MID?
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Forgive me if this has already been mentioned already, its concerning the
colour yellow and the meeting for the BA strikes yesterday, watching Sky News last night, a reporter was interviewing one of the strikers, I found it rather alarming that his colour yellow was worn in the shape of the Star of David on his lapel with BASSA written in the middle, rather bad taste !!!insulting to many!!! very very sad
colour yellow and the meeting for the BA strikes yesterday, watching Sky News last night, a reporter was interviewing one of the strikers, I found it rather alarming that his colour yellow was worn in the shape of the Star of David on his lapel with BASSA written in the middle, rather bad taste !!!insulting to many!!! very very sad
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JetsetLady,
You have previously stated that you have wrongly been accused, by BASSA militants, of being involved in the Professional Cabin Crew Council. I have already, and will do so again, apologised that this happened to you. I would not wish the BASSA mentality on anybody.
However, it is untrue to say that I "rolled out the old safety of the organisers excuse". The PCCC have maintained that we will not give out our numbers, for obvious "business" reasons, to anyone. (I am sure our learned readers on this thread, can understand that!) We have not given them to BA. Nor to BASSA. Nor, as yet, to the Certification Office who register Trade Unions despite them being very interested in us.
If you want the information, you could help yourself (and others) by supporting and joining the PCCC. You choose not to. Fair enough. Hence, we choose not to give you the information. Why should we?
We are not afraid of BASSA; you are incorrect to state that we are. BASSA are afraid of us. They have spoofed our website, spoofed our email address, and now they have blatantly copied our logo in their latest "suspendee" brochure. Someone is running scared, but it sure ain't us!
We are reserving our forces, and our strength, for when it will be most effective. We are also preserving the status quo on board our aircraft, by remaining professional. You don't fly with strikers at LGW. We do. Can you imagine one PCCC "rep" on board a plane full of strikers? If you think this is just about being "left out downroute", you severely underestimate them.
It has been said so many times that this is an organisation - it is about the idea of doing things differently and doing things better for our community. It is not about the people who run it. If LGW wants to have their own union, that would be something for you all to decide. We have nothing but respect and admiration for our colleagues at Gatwick.
Jetsetlady, you seem like a level-headed person with the same views as us. We're not the enemy. Shouldn't we all focus on the one huge cancer in the side of this company that, if we do nothing, could cause us all to be without jobs?
You have previously stated that you have wrongly been accused, by BASSA militants, of being involved in the Professional Cabin Crew Council. I have already, and will do so again, apologised that this happened to you. I would not wish the BASSA mentality on anybody.
However, it is untrue to say that I "rolled out the old safety of the organisers excuse". The PCCC have maintained that we will not give out our numbers, for obvious "business" reasons, to anyone. (I am sure our learned readers on this thread, can understand that!) We have not given them to BA. Nor to BASSA. Nor, as yet, to the Certification Office who register Trade Unions despite them being very interested in us.
If you want the information, you could help yourself (and others) by supporting and joining the PCCC. You choose not to. Fair enough. Hence, we choose not to give you the information. Why should we?
We are not afraid of BASSA; you are incorrect to state that we are. BASSA are afraid of us. They have spoofed our website, spoofed our email address, and now they have blatantly copied our logo in their latest "suspendee" brochure. Someone is running scared, but it sure ain't us!
We are reserving our forces, and our strength, for when it will be most effective. We are also preserving the status quo on board our aircraft, by remaining professional. You don't fly with strikers at LGW. We do. Can you imagine one PCCC "rep" on board a plane full of strikers? If you think this is just about being "left out downroute", you severely underestimate them.
It has been said so many times that this is an organisation - it is about the idea of doing things differently and doing things better for our community. It is not about the people who run it. If LGW wants to have their own union, that would be something for you all to decide. We have nothing but respect and admiration for our colleagues at Gatwick.
Jetsetlady, you seem like a level-headed person with the same views as us. We're not the enemy. Shouldn't we all focus on the one huge cancer in the side of this company that, if we do nothing, could cause us all to be without jobs?
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The PCCC have maintained that we will not give out our numbers, for obvious "business" reasons, to anyone. (I am sure our learned readers on this thread, can understand that!)
Sadly, it seems I am not one of the learned readers so maybe you can help me out on the obvious "business" reasons. Or maybe one of the learned readers could enlighten me. As far as I'm aware, PCCC is not a "business" or anywhere near being a "business". If it is, it certainly shouldn't be advertising on PPrune! Anyway, that's all beside the point. I will reiterate. I did not want member names, numbers or anything approaching that. I merely asked how many LGW were involved at the top table. As someone who has spent years having my future decided by LHR crew, surely that is a reasonable question?
We are not afraid of BASSA; you are incorrect to state that we are. BASSA are afraid of us. They have spoofed our website, spoofed our email address, and now they have blatantly copied our logo in their latest "suspendee" brochure. Someone is running scared, but it sure ain't us!
We are reserving our forces, and our strength, for when it will be most effective. We are also preserving the status quo on board our aircraft, by remaining professional. You don't fly with strikers at LGW. We do.
Can you imagine one PCCC "rep" on board a plane full of strikers? If you think this is just about being "left out downroute", you severely underestimate them
Anyway, work beckons so I'm off to attempt to make myself look glam. Well, as glam as it's possible to be at my age when surrounded by 20 yr olds!
I sense we will never agree on this point HiFlyer, so I wish you the best of luck and hope you will agree to disagree.
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Jetset Lady,
Why are you taking such a negative approach about a small orginisation that is just trying to give a voice to those people who are not in Bassa.
No one is suggesting that you personally join but there are many crew based at LGW that have joined and also crew at LHR that have joined.
Many of us find it good place to go, to chat to like minded crew that are horrified at what Bassa are doing to our airline and employer.
As it grows, and it is gaining members every day, it will be able to have a voice but at the momment it is just in it's infantcy.
I don't blame those founder members for not wanting to come out with their names. You only need to look at how that WW CSD is being treated to realise why no one would want to do that right now.
Why are you taking such a negative approach about a small orginisation that is just trying to give a voice to those people who are not in Bassa.
No one is suggesting that you personally join but there are many crew based at LGW that have joined and also crew at LHR that have joined.
Many of us find it good place to go, to chat to like minded crew that are horrified at what Bassa are doing to our airline and employer.
As it grows, and it is gaining members every day, it will be able to have a voice but at the momment it is just in it's infantcy.
I don't blame those founder members for not wanting to come out with their names. You only need to look at how that WW CSD is being treated to realise why no one would want to do that right now.
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Read my posts, Betty Girl. My negativity as you call it, is all explained fully in them. Or would you rather have another organisation of blind followers that never question anything? Now, much as I'd love to continue this debate, I really have to go to work!
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If you want PCCC or any other organisation/Union to represent LGW, LHR or anyone else, the first thing you need is a strong leader or leaders....It would seem that the PCCC have neither. Even if you wished to keep the membership under wraps for the time being, the leaders should be out there and voicing opinion and strategy. Having members join a secret society is ridiculous....I doubt you can keep the membership secret for too long anyway. Without the leaders, at least, being out there and vocal there is no way to determine whether they are company stooges or indeed Professionals with some moral fibre. Joining just because you don't want any truck with BASSA makes no sense.......
I have been in the situation of a mass move from one TU to another for similar reasons. It's not easy, but, it definitely needs leadership.
I have been in the situation of a mass move from one TU to another for similar reasons. It's not easy, but, it definitely needs leadership.
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Jetset Lady.
Well I think alot of anger is comming across and I am just not exactly sure I understand why, even after reading your posts.
Have a nice flight, hope it is to somewhere nice.
Well I think alot of anger is comming across and I am just not exactly sure I understand why, even after reading your posts.
Have a nice flight, hope it is to somewhere nice.
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Call100.
This big mass move of yours, was it right in the middle of a bout of industrial action?
Anyway I have nothing to do with the PCCC leadership, I am just someone who has found membership very helpful to me and as a result I find it strange that people are having a go at the founder members.
They are just ordinary cabin crew that are fed up with what Bassa has been doing. Nothing more, nothing less.
They have set up a place where you can go for for advise if you are not part of Bassa and very helpful they are too.
I find it strange, that it is, people that don't actually want to be a member that are questioning things. Those of us that are members are more than happy with HiFlyer.
This big mass move of yours, was it right in the middle of a bout of industrial action?
Anyway I have nothing to do with the PCCC leadership, I am just someone who has found membership very helpful to me and as a result I find it strange that people are having a go at the founder members.
They are just ordinary cabin crew that are fed up with what Bassa has been doing. Nothing more, nothing less.
They have set up a place where you can go for for advise if you are not part of Bassa and very helpful they are too.
I find it strange, that it is, people that don't actually want to be a member that are questioning things. Those of us that are members are more than happy with HiFlyer.
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Dave3
I hope you read this thread, Dave, because your assumption that no-one knew that British Airtours was part of BA is not strictly true and I'm probably not the only one on these threads who does.
BEA Airtours was set up in 1969 by BEA and became British Airtours on the formation of BA in the 70s, when BA acquired British Caledonian in 1988 Airtours became Caledonian Airways.
I've already commented previously on BASSA's misuse of the Manchester tragedy for their own publicity but the wearing of yellow can also be interpreted as lacking in moral courage.
I hope you read this thread, Dave, because your assumption that no-one knew that British Airtours was part of BA is not strictly true and I'm probably not the only one on these threads who does.
BEA Airtours was set up in 1969 by BEA and became British Airtours on the formation of BA in the 70s, when BA acquired British Caledonian in 1988 Airtours became Caledonian Airways.
I've already commented previously on BASSA's misuse of the Manchester tragedy for their own publicity but the wearing of yellow can also be interpreted as lacking in moral courage.
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Call100
Thank you for your comments. Actually, there is no secret society. We are in fact "out there" voicing opinion and strategy. It may seem strange to the outside world, but ours is such a large community that names are, by and large, meaningless.
The majority of crew don't know who the long-serving BASSA/Amicus reps are. The majority of crew don't know who their manager is. Many crew don't even know who the Head of IFCE is. And 99% of the time, crew don't know the CSD, or any of the other crew that they are flying with. It is a sea of anonymity. Everyday working with different people that we don't know. It's how we work.
The PCCC could put our names out there tomorrow. Crew wouldn't know who we are, nor would they probably care. It wouldn't make a jot of difference.
It would be extremely helpful though if you could post details of your mass move from one TU to another and your involvement in it. Would you be willing to do that - or maybe you could pm me?
JetsetLady
The point is we don't disagree - we have the same passion and beliefs. So, please put that passion to good use and come and join us? Come and sit at the "top table" as you call it. You are obviously as passionate about this as us, and if the LGW membership want to "go it alone" (a breakaway union within a breakaway union
) then we will support that.
All we are is crew striving to rid ourselves of this monster that has grown out of control in our midst. We must all stand together to do it. I admit, the PCCC may not be getting it completely right.
But at least we're not doing nothing.
Thank you for your comments. Actually, there is no secret society. We are in fact "out there" voicing opinion and strategy. It may seem strange to the outside world, but ours is such a large community that names are, by and large, meaningless.
The majority of crew don't know who the long-serving BASSA/Amicus reps are. The majority of crew don't know who their manager is. Many crew don't even know who the Head of IFCE is. And 99% of the time, crew don't know the CSD, or any of the other crew that they are flying with. It is a sea of anonymity. Everyday working with different people that we don't know. It's how we work.
The PCCC could put our names out there tomorrow. Crew wouldn't know who we are, nor would they probably care. It wouldn't make a jot of difference.
It would be extremely helpful though if you could post details of your mass move from one TU to another and your involvement in it. Would you be willing to do that - or maybe you could pm me?
JetsetLady
The point is we don't disagree - we have the same passion and beliefs. So, please put that passion to good use and come and join us? Come and sit at the "top table" as you call it. You are obviously as passionate about this as us, and if the LGW membership want to "go it alone" (a breakaway union within a breakaway union
) then we will support that.All we are is crew striving to rid ourselves of this monster that has grown out of control in our midst. We must all stand together to do it. I admit, the PCCC may not be getting it completely right.
But at least we're not doing nothing.
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All very interesting, I'm sure. Is there any reason why that PCC debate isn't being done on the exclusive CC thread, instead of here on the SLF thread?
