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BA Strike - Your Thoughts & Questions II

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BA Strike - Your Thoughts & Questions II

Old 7th Sep 2010, 10:57
  #1841 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Hamptonne
Posts: 384
I guess things will to resolve themselves once Bassa is dead and muttering
<<Pedant Alert!>>

Once an organism is dead, entaxei, how can it mutter?

<<Alert Over!>>
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Old 7th Sep 2010, 10:57
  #1842 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Abu Dhabi
Posts: 294
I thought rep elections were on the agenda at this meeting? Any news on DH's position?
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Old 7th Sep 2010, 11:07
  #1843 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Thailand
Posts: 455
Seriously, who would have stood up and questioned DH's right to be there, despite not being a BA employee?

In a room full of lemmings?
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Old 7th Sep 2010, 11:40
  #1844 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Sussex,UK
Posts: 469
Entaxei,

Further to MIDLGW's comments, sadly the last thing we at LGW need is another "LHR" Union and a faceless one at that. A "union" that insists on staying annonymous for fear for their safety while letting another crew member take the flak for supposedly being behind it. (An apology and denial from those at the top might have been nice!)

A while back, I asked HiFlyer exactly how many LGW crew are involved in the organising of PCCC. I didn't ask for names, just the number of crew yet HiFlyer declined to answer, once again rolling out the old "fear for the safety of it's organisers" excuse. Sorry, it doesn't wash with me anymore. Been there, got the tee-shirt! And for the record, as far as I'm aware and unless the situation has changed recently, there are no LGW crew involved.

It's a shame as I had high hopes for PCCC but the lack of conviction by those behind it has made me think that they will achieve very little. I now agree with MIDLGW. We need our own representation, run by crew that are not distracted by whats going on up the road and that understand our own issues. How about it, MID?
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Old 7th Sep 2010, 13:05
  #1845 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: london
Posts: 23
Forgive me if this has already been mentioned already, its concerning the
colour yellow and the meeting for the BA strikes yesterday, watching Sky News last night, a reporter was interviewing one of the strikers, I found it rather alarming that his colour yellow was worn in the shape of the Star of David on his lapel with BASSA written in the middle, rather bad taste !!!insulting to many!!! very very sad
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Old 7th Sep 2010, 13:14
  #1846 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: 35,000 ft
Posts: 468
JetsetLady,

You have previously stated that you have wrongly been accused, by BASSA militants, of being involved in the Professional Cabin Crew Council. I have already, and will do so again, apologised that this happened to you. I would not wish the BASSA mentality on anybody.

However, it is untrue to say that I "rolled out the old safety of the organisers excuse". The PCCC have maintained that we will not give out our numbers, for obvious "business" reasons, to anyone. (I am sure our learned readers on this thread, can understand that!) We have not given them to BA. Nor to BASSA. Nor, as yet, to the Certification Office who register Trade Unions despite them being very interested in us.

If you want the information, you could help yourself (and others) by supporting and joining the PCCC. You choose not to. Fair enough. Hence, we choose not to give you the information. Why should we?

We are not afraid of BASSA; you are incorrect to state that we are. BASSA are afraid of us. They have spoofed our website, spoofed our email address, and now they have blatantly copied our logo in their latest "suspendee" brochure. Someone is running scared, but it sure ain't us!

We are reserving our forces, and our strength, for when it will be most effective. We are also preserving the status quo on board our aircraft, by remaining professional. You don't fly with strikers at LGW. We do. Can you imagine one PCCC "rep" on board a plane full of strikers? If you think this is just about being "left out downroute", you severely underestimate them.

It has been said so many times that this is an organisation - it is about the idea of doing things differently and doing things better for our community. It is not about the people who run it. If LGW wants to have their own union, that would be something for you all to decide. We have nothing but respect and admiration for our colleagues at Gatwick.

Jetsetlady, you seem like a level-headed person with the same views as us. We're not the enemy. Shouldn't we all focus on the one huge cancer in the side of this company that, if we do nothing, could cause us all to be without jobs?
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Old 7th Sep 2010, 14:09
  #1847 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Sussex,UK
Posts: 469
The PCCC have maintained that we will not give out our numbers, for obvious "business" reasons, to anyone. (I am sure our learned readers on this thread, can understand that!)
HiFlyer,

Sadly, it seems I am not one of the learned readers so maybe you can help me out on the obvious "business" reasons. Or maybe one of the learned readers could enlighten me. As far as I'm aware, PCCC is not a "business" or anywhere near being a "business". If it is, it certainly shouldn't be advertising on PPRuNe! Anyway, that's all beside the point. I will reiterate. I did not want member names, numbers or anything approaching that. I merely asked how many LGW were involved at the top table. As someone who has spent years having my future decided by LHR crew, surely that is a reasonable question?

We are not afraid of BASSA; you are incorrect to state that we are. BASSA are afraid of us. They have spoofed our website, spoofed our email address, and now they have blatantly copied our logo in their latest "suspendee" brochure. Someone is running scared, but it sure ain't us!
I'm really sorry but I think you are kidding yourselves somewhat. I think they probably were watching you closely to start with but I don't think they see you as a threat any longer. The time to stand up seems to have come and gone, I'm afraid. I'll be extremely pleased if I'm proved wrong, however. No doubt time will tell.

We are reserving our forces, and our strength, for when it will be most effective. We are also preserving the status quo on board our aircraft, by remaining professional. You don't fly with strikers at LGW. We do.
There you go again, proving my point that we need actual LGW representation. How dare you assume that you know what it's like to work at LGW! Yes, I have flown with strikers. No, it's not generally as militant as LHR but believe me, it's not all the hearts and flowers that some like to portray.


Can you imagine one PCCC "rep" on board a plane full of strikers? If you think this is just about being "left out downroute", you severely underestimate them
So which is it? One minute, you aren't scared of BASSA and all the secrecy is for "business" reasons, then the next you're worrying about being the only PCCC rep on board an aircraft full of strikers. You can't stay hidden forever and eventually that could well happen. What then? Surely, part of being a good rep will be knowing how to deal with it.

Anyway, work beckons so I'm off to attempt to make myself look glam. Well, as glam as it's possible to be at my age when surrounded by 20 yr olds!
I sense we will never agree on this point HiFlyer, so I wish you the best of luck and hope you will agree to disagree.
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Old 7th Sep 2010, 14:44
  #1848 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: maidenhead
Posts: 942
Angel

Jetset Lady,

Why are you taking such a negative approach about a small orginisation that is just trying to give a voice to those people who are not in Bassa.

No one is suggesting that you personally join but there are many crew based at LGW that have joined and also crew at LHR that have joined.

Many of us find it good place to go, to chat to like minded crew that are horrified at what Bassa are doing to our airline and employer.

As it grows, and it is gaining members every day, it will be able to have a voice but at the momment it is just in it's infantcy.

I don't blame those founder members for not wanting to come out with their names. You only need to look at how that WW CSD is being treated to realise why no one would want to do that right now.
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Old 7th Sep 2010, 14:56
  #1849 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Sussex,UK
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Read my posts, Betty Girl. My negativity as you call it, is all explained fully in them. Or would you rather have another organisation of blind followers that never question anything? Now, much as I'd love to continue this debate, I really have to go to work!
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Old 7th Sep 2010, 15:00
  #1850 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Tracey Island
Posts: 1,496
If you want PCCC or any other organisation/Union to represent LGW, LHR or anyone else, the first thing you need is a strong leader or leaders....It would seem that the PCCC have neither. Even if you wished to keep the membership under wraps for the time being, the leaders should be out there and voicing opinion and strategy. Having members join a secret society is ridiculous....I doubt you can keep the membership secret for too long anyway. Without the leaders, at least, being out there and vocal there is no way to determine whether they are company stooges or indeed Professionals with some moral fibre. Joining just because you don't want any truck with BASSA makes no sense.......
I have been in the situation of a mass move from one TU to another for similar reasons. It's not easy, but, it definitely needs leadership.
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Old 7th Sep 2010, 15:00
  #1851 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: May 2010
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Angel

Jetset Lady.
Well I think alot of anger is comming across and I am just not exactly sure I understand why, even after reading your posts.

Have a nice flight, hope it is to somewhere nice.
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Old 7th Sep 2010, 15:15
  #1852 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: May 2010
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Posts: 942
Angel

Call100.
This big mass move of yours, was it right in the middle of a bout of industrial action?

Anyway I have nothing to do with the PCCC leadership, I am just someone who has found membership very helpful to me and as a result I find it strange that people are having a go at the founder members.

They are just ordinary cabin crew that are fed up with what Bassa has been doing. Nothing more, nothing less.

They have set up a place where you can go for for advise if you are not part of Bassa and very helpful they are too.

I find it strange, that it is, people that don't actually want to be a member that are questioning things. Those of us that are members are more than happy with HiFlyer.
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Old 7th Sep 2010, 16:06
  #1853 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: UK
Age: 85
Posts: 16
Dave3
I hope you read this thread, Dave, because your assumption that no-one knew that British Airtours was part of BA is not strictly true and I'm probably not the only one on these threads who does.
BEA Airtours was set up in 1969 by BEA and became British Airtours on the formation of BA in the 70s, when BA acquired British Caledonian in 1988 Airtours became Caledonian Airways.
I've already commented previously on BASSA's misuse of the Manchester tragedy for their own publicity but the wearing of yellow can also be interpreted as lacking in moral courage.
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Old 7th Sep 2010, 16:32
  #1854 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: 35,000 ft
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Call100

Thank you for your comments. Actually, there is no secret society. We are in fact "out there" voicing opinion and strategy. It may seem strange to the outside world, but ours is such a large community that names are, by and large, meaningless.

The majority of crew don't know who the long-serving BASSA/Amicus reps are. The majority of crew don't know who their manager is. Many crew don't even know who the Head of IFCE is. And 99% of the time, crew don't know the CSD, or any of the other crew that they are flying with. It is a sea of anonymity. Everyday working with different people that we don't know. It's how we work.

The PCCC could put our names out there tomorrow. Crew wouldn't know who we are, nor would they probably care. It wouldn't make a jot of difference.

It would be extremely helpful though if you could post details of your mass move from one TU to another and your involvement in it. Would you be willing to do that - or maybe you could pm me?

JetsetLady
The point is we don't disagree - we have the same passion and beliefs. So, please put that passion to good use and come and join us? Come and sit at the "top table" as you call it. You are obviously as passionate about this as us, and if the LGW membership want to "go it alone" (a breakaway union within a breakaway union ) then we will support that.

All we are is crew striving to rid ourselves of this monster that has grown out of control in our midst. We must all stand together to do it. I admit, the PCCC may not be getting it completely right.

But at least we're not doing nothing.
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Old 7th Sep 2010, 16:42
  #1855 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Often in Jersey, but mainly in the past.
Age: 75
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All very interesting, I'm sure. Is there any reason why that PCC debate isn't being done on the exclusive CC thread, instead of here on the SLF thread?
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Old 7th Sep 2010, 16:46
  #1856 (permalink)  
Está servira para distraerle.
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
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Posts: 4
The US Cavalry used to wear yellow neckerchiefs in the days of the cowboys and Indians. John Wayne often sported one, even in black and white. The wearing of a yellow ribbon by wives, girlfriends and mistresses of US serving soldiers has long been a poignant reminder of their men who are far away and in danger. There's an obvious emotive connection between the yellow ribbon, the US Cavalry and the raising of Old Glory at Iwo Jima (Mount Surbachi), a parody of which is still the BASSA logo. It's remarkable that the Yanks and the TWU haven't woken up to this scatology and boycotted the employer of the perpetrators of such crass political symbolism.
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Old 7th Sep 2010, 16:53
  #1857 (permalink)  
STS
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: UK
Posts: 39
May I ask re: the Star of David as it's been posted here and on the other thread - did anybody see this, was it really this symbol, and did the person speak about it or was merely pictured with it on? I can only hope this isn't true or it's not what it seems, and would really appreciate someone connected with BASSA explaining as I can't go over and ask on the CC forum.

Like other posters here, despite my current belief that for all their faults BA management are only conducting themselves in a manner that shareholders and many employees would expect during this difficult economic climate, I am open to having my mind changed on some issues if any reasoned debate points were put forward from BASSA supporters.

However, unless this is some ghastly misunderstanding - which I sincerely hope it is - it's upset and offended me deeply, as I'm sure it would many people. Despite my disagreement with the BASSA position, I hope this would be cleared up as a misunderstanding because I cannot believe someone would do this.
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Old 7th Sep 2010, 16:54
  #1858 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: maidenhead
Posts: 942
Angel

MPN11,
The reason it is being talked about here is because it was in reponse to a post that Entaxei made and he only posts here.

He was suggesting that LGW crew join the PCCC and that is the only reason it is being discussed here.

Hope that helps.

Last edited by Betty girl; 7th Sep 2010 at 17:22.
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Old 7th Sep 2010, 17:14
  #1859 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Wiltshire
Age: 79
Posts: 184
Chucinchow #1848

A muttering dead organism ;

I envisage a dark rotting mass with bubbles raising, which on bursting make noises similar to Tomatoes; impositions; pink gins; its not fair; come the revolutions; listen to me; listen to me; is anyone there; etc..etc..etc.........

The whole surrounded by linked bassa lanyards with warning notices 'This could happen to you!!! join an onion'

With apologies to shades of 'Monty Pythons Flying Circus' for those young enough to remember.
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Old 7th Sep 2010, 17:37
  #1860 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Often in Jersey, but mainly in the past.
Age: 75
Posts: 5,891
@ Betty girl ... fair point. Sorry, I get depressed reading the CC thread and not being able to respond [having been banned so many times, under so many user-names!!] I just find it all a bit like sticking pins in my eyeballs!

If I want to be depressed, I read the CC Thread.
If I want a good moan, I post here ... and FLY BA anyway!

Good luck to all of you ... I'll go and take my anti-Grumpy pills now.
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