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BA Strike - Your Thoughts & Questions II

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BA Strike - Your Thoughts & Questions II

Old 7th Sep 2010, 18:17
  #1861 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Thailand
Posts: 455
Jetset Lady:

Have you actually registered at the PCCC website and investigated what they might offer you, or are you happy just sitting back niggling at them? Do you have any interest in what possibly be more sensible representation, or do you think the current BASSA leadership are worthy of support?

All I see is you constantly criticising the PCCC, which puts you in the BASSA or moaners barrel.

Do you see a need for change, and if so, what are you actually doing about it?

Or are you happy with the status quo?
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Old 7th Sep 2010, 18:31
  #1862 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Wiltshire
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MPN11

Just for info, I no longer work in Aviation, so therefore am not eligible to post on the exclusive CC thread.

But I do have many years experience in aviation, computer industry, takeovers and dealing with unions etc., and I believe that we SLF have a range of experience applicable to a lot of the situations arising here.

I have been astounded at the vast amount of knowledge that has been displayed on here in the areas of Employee law, Industrial Relations and Industrial Actions, Unions and company law, to name but a few, which also means a lot of the SLF must be very good and of course at the top of their professions to afford the going rate for tickets.

At the end of the day, we have a vested interest in knowing what is happening, to make sure that we are able to take our families on holiday or continue to run our business.

I can understand your feeling that your working life and traumas should be kept private, but can only suggest that such details are not displayed on a public forum. Curiosity always wins.
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Old 7th Sep 2010, 19:13
  #1863 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Tracey Island
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Originally Posted by Betty girl View Post
Call100.
This big mass move of yours, was it right in the middle of a bout of industrial action?

Anyway I have nothing to do with the PCCC leadership, I am just someone who has found membership very helpful to me and as a result I find it strange that people are having a go at the founder members.

They are just ordinary cabin crew that are fed up with what Bassa has been doing. Nothing more, nothing less.

They have set up a place where you can go for for advise if you are not part of Bassa and very helpful they are too.

I find it strange, that it is, people that don't actually want to be a member that are questioning things. Those of us that are members are more than happy with HiFlyer.
It wasn't aimed at you personally, so I don't understand your attitude. The point is that maybe if there was some leadership, and I mean a public one, then they would be taken more seriously and maybe more of the BASSA membership would move over.

HiFlyer14
I'll PM you.....
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Old 7th Sep 2010, 19:41
  #1864 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Often in Jersey, but mainly in the past.
Age: 75
Posts: 5,891
@ Entaxai ...
I can understand your feeling that your working life and traumas should be kept private, but can only suggest that such details are not displayed on a public forum.
Me? Working? Wash your mouth out with soap!!

I am not, nor ever have been, a BA employee.
CAA, NATS, UK Mil plc ... yes
I have however spent all my working life in the aviation world ... starting at age 17. I will also admit to working at LHR in black wooden huts on the North Side in the 60's

I agree that PPRuNe contains a massive 'database' of experience ... my only point was that the "CC-Specific" Forum exists for the CC and not SLF. I just felt, at the time, that there was a wee bit of overspill.
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Old 7th Sep 2010, 20:19
  #1865 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: maidenhead
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Angel

Call100,
What attitude, the only part of my post directed at you was the question about whether your experience of a big move from one union to the other was during industrial action. How can that be an attitude?

The rest was just to make sure people did not think I spoke for the PCCC.
I just was saying that I support them and appreciate their help and how good it is to be able to communicate with other like minded crew. It was aimed at the crew that were moaning not you.
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Old 7th Sep 2010, 22:47
  #1866 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Tracey Island
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OK, It was just the way it was written and the way I read it....The answer to your question is no, not in a period of IA but in a period of conflict which decided IA or not.
I'm glad you are happy with PCCC. I await their public emergence...
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Old 7th Sep 2010, 23:08
  #1867 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: maidenhead
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Angel

Thanks Call100,
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Old 8th Sep 2010, 00:58
  #1868 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: USA
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What's Next

We have now had the big meeting which apparently went exactly as predicted. Based on the physical constraints of the venue attendance was a maximum of + or- 750 and possibly less. Nothing has changed. The only thing that was interesting from what has been reported about the meeting is the proposal to tax each BASSA member an additional 5 lbs per month to subsidize commuters who have lost their ST. This would indicate to me that the loss of ST is causing problems for the BASSA leadership. BASSA leadership want a strike vote. United undoubtedly do not want a strike vote and have the sole authority to call for the vote. It is unclear to me who has the actual authority to set the strike dates and call the strike after a strike is authorized. BASSA seems to be a toothless dog at the moment reduced to only being able to threaten a strike in an attempt to reduce BAís forward bookings. What are BASSA members now going to do. They have lost wages, lost ST, will not receive salary increases and have no leverage with BA. If members do something that subjects them to termination Mixed Fleet grows faster.
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Old 8th Sep 2010, 03:08
  #1869 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
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pcat60

It troubles me as a passenger that BASSA has an "attitude problem" that is completely incompatible with my expectations of the sort of person that a steward/stewardess ought to be.

I agree with nearly everything that pcat60 says._ It is an excellent analysis._ The only thing that I disagree with is
BASSA seems to be a toothless dog
I think that BASSA is a ferocious vindictive dog which has been put on a lead - in fact two dog-leads - one the BA dog-lead and the other the Unite dog-lead._ In 2011 I predict that Unite will accept the Final Offer which will then improve the control that BA has over what can only be described as a cult.
The history of cults is very sad - however exceptionally a cult can reform itself (unfortunately I can find no examples of reformation)._ If BASSA can no longer bite BA or Unite then the emergence of PCCC will provide a most attractive target for BASSA.

Last edited by notlangley; 8th Sep 2010 at 03:23. Reason: grammar
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Old 8th Sep 2010, 03:25
  #1870 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
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notlangley

I think your post reference the cult mentality is spot on. Bassa have a central hard core group of extremists. I was in PATCO (US air traffic controllers union) when we went on strike in 1983. We were all made to believe that we had the moral high ground and that the government would cave at the chaos we would cause to the US airlines.

We believed what we were told because we wanted to believe what we were being told by the union. As you know it all went horribly wrong and the controllers that didn't go back to work in 48 hours were all dismissed. We still were told that we would win and believed it for a while.

When you are involved in something you feel passionately about you believe anything you are told that agrees with your position. I think that is where the hard core militants are right now.
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Old 8th Sep 2010, 08:01
  #1871 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
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All I see is you constantly criticising the PCCC, which puts you in the BASSA or moaners barrel.
I have been lucky enough to meet JSL and she is a very reasonable, balanced individual (also very clever) who cares passionately about BA and doing a great job.

Last edited by Lotpax; 8th Sep 2010 at 11:10.
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Old 8th Sep 2010, 09:35
  #1872 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
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the proposal to tax each BASSA member an additional 5 lbs per month to subsidize commuters who have lost their ST.
I'm all for this! Take 5 lbs per month off them and in a year we might have a few less fatties on board!

Jesting aside, it's incorrect to say nothing happened at the union meeting as it appears a very significant development has only just filtered out. From another place.....

"Duncan said at meeting strikes ain't gonna work as Walsh has a huge volunteer army, not to mention our own scabs! The only thing we can target is forward bookings. "

That admission that the strike strategy is doomed is possibly the biggest step forward in some time, and it means that the power to defeat the strike now rest with the passengers! Book BA and the strategy fails! I might even suggest that as an idea to the advertising department!
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Old 8th Sep 2010, 10:27
  #1873 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
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I have been lucky enough to meet JSL and she is a very reasonable, balanced individual (also very clever) who cares passionately about BA and doing a great job.
None of which contradicts what I stated, nor answers my question, but I guess she's flying so it will just have to wait.

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Old 8th Sep 2010, 10:46
  #1874 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
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May I ask re: the Star of David as it's been posted here and on the other thread - did anybody see this, was it really this symbol, and did the person speak about it or was merely pictured with it on? I can only hope this isn't true or it's not what it seems, and would really appreciate someone connected with BASSA explaining as I can't go over and ask on the CC forum.

In case anyone is any doubt about this the person interviewed clearly was wearing a yellow star of David with BASSA written in the middle. The Nazis made all jews wear a cloth, yellow star of David with the word Jude written in the middle.

I would presume that the person at the meeting was a crew member who had lost staff travel/disciplined and was making the statement 'I am being treated like the Jews were by WW (shown as Hitler in past) and Nazi BA management'
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Old 8th Sep 2010, 10:50
  #1875 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
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A question for the lawyers;

If DH takes any action that affects BA's business, is that unofficial industrial action. If so, can BA sue Unite for compensation. Does anyone with legal knowledge know the answer?

Dave
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Old 8th Sep 2010, 11:08
  #1876 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
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Compare and contrast

In case anyone is any doubt about this the person interviewed clearly was wearing a yellow star of David with BASSA written in the middle. The Nazis made all jews wear a cloth, yellow star of David with the word Jude written in the middle.
with

BA crew: I was ?red after pro-Nazi row | The Jewish Chronicle
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Old 8th Sep 2010, 11:10
  #1877 (permalink)  
 
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vctenderness
The link below shows the interview.
BA Workers Vote For Ballot On Strike Action - Sky News Video Player
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Old 8th Sep 2010, 12:06
  #1878 (permalink)  
STS
 
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Without making judgements of BASSA's track record re: inappropriate historical comparisons or the individual concerned and his belief that he should equate his difficulties with the wearing of the yellow star in 1930s Europe and whether BA did investigate this adequately in the current environment...

This is just about plummeting to depths that I never imagined would be discussed on here. Whatever the truth is behind this individual incident is, I just find it all so monumentally upsetting that I don't even want to begin to try and pick this one apart now. All this is achieving is upsetting me - and, therefore, I can bet countless others - and gets nobody any closer to resolving whatever dispute this has now turned into.

Thank you for posting the JC article.
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Old 8th Sep 2010, 12:10
  #1879 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: UK
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If DH takes any action that affects BA's business, is that unofficial industrial action
Possibly, Unite certainly think it could be based on their swift retraction of the window blinds issue following a written warning from BA stating thatís exactly how they were interpreting it.

DH, and all BASSA CC, should remember that the BASSA forum is an official conduit for that union branch and comments made in there by anyone that are then subsequently allowed to remain could be open to legal issues as a result. The current example of inciting people to not book flights with BA being the issue Iím thinking of here. I donít have access to the BASSA forum (thankfully) but if as has been suggested attacking forward bookings by social means (for want of a better phrase) is occurring, being overtly discussed and can be linked to DHís well reported statement regarding assaulting bookings then yes, legally I can see grounds for BA to at least have a pop.

Ms L Malone knows only too well the result of loose lips in that forum.

All this new media, forums, Face.book, etc is a steep learning curve for a lot of people, you are accountable for what you write and you are accountable for what you allow to be published on a forum you control. There was a time in most businesses, or Unions, when all communications, letters we used to call them, would have come from a tiny handful of people at the top. Now any olí bugger with an internet connection is making statements ďfor and on behalf ofĒ their employer or group with little or no reference to the people above them. Itís far from ideal and can cause problems for you down the line if you donít control the information flow correctly.
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Old 8th Sep 2010, 12:42
  #1880 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
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Incitement

With respect to the defence of various comments from the junta about forward bookings, there is much unexplored legal space..............a large, ill defined grey area.
What is clear is that if an official employed by the TU (ie, and FTO, not a rep) incites employees to breach their contracts, then that action is not protected, and the employer can sue the TU. Equally, if a Branch Sec., acting in their role as a Branch Sec. (whoever employs them) issues an "official" note to staff which incites them to breach their contract, then again it is not protected.
However, when someone infers that it would be a good idea to slag off their employer to their friends in order to reduce the forward order book, then we're in very grey territory.
As an employer, I would not go down the "sue the TU route" , but would take the employee - if I could establish their i.d. - thru the disciplinary route.


As an aside, the use by BA of either their own staff or contractors to find out what their own staff are doing is not unique to BA. Thousands of employers do it every day to thousands of employees. They have to as a few employees abuse some generous sick-leave arrangements.
Most employees fully support such actions, as they get fed up with the known malingerers. Probably less than 5% of employees abuse generous sick leave schemes. When they do, they threaten the very existence of the scheme. To obtain data about whether or not someone is a malingerer does require detailed investigation.
IMHO the ranting about Human Rights is a load of hogwash.
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