BA Strike - Your Thoughts & Questions II
Está servira para distraerle.
The US Cavalry used to wear yellow neckerchiefs in the days of the cowboys and Indians. John Wayne often sported one, even in black and white. The wearing of a yellow ribbon by wives, girlfriends and mistresses of US serving soldiers has long been a poignant reminder of their men who are far away and in danger. There's an obvious emotive connection between the yellow ribbon, the US Cavalry and the raising of Old Glory at Iwo Jima (Mount Surbachi), a parody of which is still the BASSA logo. It's remarkable that the Yanks and the TWU haven't woken up to this scatology and boycotted the employer of the perpetrators of such crass political symbolism.
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May I ask re: the Star of David as it's been posted here and on the other thread - did anybody see this, was it really this symbol, and did the person speak about it or was merely pictured with it on? I can only hope this isn't true or it's not what it seems, and would really appreciate someone connected with BASSA explaining as I can't go over and ask on the CC forum.
Like other posters here, despite my current belief that for all their faults BA management are only conducting themselves in a manner that shareholders and many employees would expect during this difficult economic climate, I am open to having my mind changed on some issues if any reasoned debate points were put forward from BASSA supporters.
However, unless this is some ghastly misunderstanding - which I sincerely hope it is - it's upset and offended me deeply, as I'm sure it would many people. Despite my disagreement with the BASSA position, I hope this would be cleared up as a misunderstanding because I cannot believe someone would do this.
Like other posters here, despite my current belief that for all their faults BA management are only conducting themselves in a manner that shareholders and many employees would expect during this difficult economic climate, I am open to having my mind changed on some issues if any reasoned debate points were put forward from BASSA supporters.
However, unless this is some ghastly misunderstanding - which I sincerely hope it is - it's upset and offended me deeply, as I'm sure it would many people. Despite my disagreement with the BASSA position, I hope this would be cleared up as a misunderstanding because I cannot believe someone would do this.
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MPN11,
The reason it is being talked about here is because it was in reponse to a post that Entaxei made and he only posts here.
He was suggesting that LGW crew join the PCCC and that is the only reason it is being discussed here.
Hope that helps.
The reason it is being talked about here is because it was in reponse to a post that Entaxei made and he only posts here.
He was suggesting that LGW crew join the PCCC and that is the only reason it is being discussed here.
Hope that helps.
Last edited by Betty girl; 7th Sep 2010 at 17:22.
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Chucinchow #1848
A muttering dead organism ;
I envisage a dark rotting mass with bubbles raising, which on bursting make noises similar to Tomatoes; impositions; pink gins; its not fair; come the revolutions; listen to me; listen to me; is anyone there; etc..etc..etc.........
The whole surrounded by linked bassa lanyards with warning notices 'This could happen to you!!! join an onion'
With apologies to shades of 'Monty Pythons Flying Circus' for those young enough to remember.
I envisage a dark rotting mass with bubbles raising, which on bursting make noises similar to Tomatoes; impositions; pink gins; its not fair; come the revolutions; listen to me; listen to me; is anyone there; etc..etc..etc.........
The whole surrounded by linked bassa lanyards with warning notices 'This could happen to you!!! join an onion'
With apologies to shades of 'Monty Pythons Flying Circus' for those young enough to remember.
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@ Betty girl ... fair point. Sorry, I get depressed reading the CC thread and not being able to respond [having been banned so many times, under so many user-names!!] I just find it all a bit like sticking pins in my eyeballs!
If I want to be depressed, I read the CC Thread.
If I want a good moan, I post here ... and FLY BA anyway!
Good luck to all of you ... I'll go and take my anti-Grumpy pills now.
If I want to be depressed, I read the CC Thread.
If I want a good moan, I post here ... and FLY BA anyway!
Good luck to all of you ... I'll go and take my anti-Grumpy pills now.
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Jetset Lady:
Have you actually registered at the PCCC website and investigated what they might offer you, or are you happy just sitting back niggling at them? Do you have any interest in what possibly be more sensible representation, or do you think the current BASSA leadership are worthy of support?
All I see is you constantly criticising the PCCC, which puts you in the BASSA or moaners barrel.
Do you see a need for change, and if so, what are you actually doing about it?
Or are you happy with the status quo?
Have you actually registered at the PCCC website and investigated what they might offer you, or are you happy just sitting back niggling at them? Do you have any interest in what possibly be more sensible representation, or do you think the current BASSA leadership are worthy of support?
All I see is you constantly criticising the PCCC, which puts you in the BASSA or moaners barrel.
Do you see a need for change, and if so, what are you actually doing about it?
Or are you happy with the status quo?
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MPN11
Just for info, I no longer work in Aviation, so therefore am not eligible to post on the exclusive CC thread.
But I do have many years experience in aviation, computer industry, takeovers and dealing with unions etc., and I believe that we SLF have a range of experience applicable to a lot of the situations arising here.
I have been astounded at the vast amount of knowledge that has been displayed on here in the areas of Employee law, Industrial Relations and Industrial Actions, Unions and company law, to name but a few, which also means a lot of the SLF must be very good and of course at the top of their professions to afford the going rate for tickets.
At the end of the day, we have a vested interest in knowing what is happening, to make sure that we are able to take our families on holiday or continue to run our business.
I can understand your feeling that your working life and traumas should be kept private, but can only suggest that such details are not displayed on a public forum. Curiosity always wins.
But I do have many years experience in aviation, computer industry, takeovers and dealing with unions etc., and I believe that we SLF have a range of experience applicable to a lot of the situations arising here.
I have been astounded at the vast amount of knowledge that has been displayed on here in the areas of Employee law, Industrial Relations and Industrial Actions, Unions and company law, to name but a few, which also means a lot of the SLF must be very good and of course at the top of their professions to afford the going rate for tickets.
At the end of the day, we have a vested interest in knowing what is happening, to make sure that we are able to take our families on holiday or continue to run our business.
I can understand your feeling that your working life and traumas should be kept private, but can only suggest that such details are not displayed on a public forum. Curiosity always wins.
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Call100.
This big mass move of yours, was it right in the middle of a bout of industrial action?
Anyway I have nothing to do with the PCCC leadership, I am just someone who has found membership very helpful to me and as a result I find it strange that people are having a go at the founder members.
They are just ordinary cabin crew that are fed up with what Bassa has been doing. Nothing more, nothing less.
They have set up a place where you can go for for advise if you are not part of Bassa and very helpful they are too.
I find it strange, that it is, people that don't actually want to be a member that are questioning things. Those of us that are members are more than happy with HiFlyer.
This big mass move of yours, was it right in the middle of a bout of industrial action?
Anyway I have nothing to do with the PCCC leadership, I am just someone who has found membership very helpful to me and as a result I find it strange that people are having a go at the founder members.
They are just ordinary cabin crew that are fed up with what Bassa has been doing. Nothing more, nothing less.
They have set up a place where you can go for for advise if you are not part of Bassa and very helpful they are too.
I find it strange, that it is, people that don't actually want to be a member that are questioning things. Those of us that are members are more than happy with HiFlyer.
HiFlyer14
I'll PM you.....
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@ Entaxai ...
Me? Working? Wash your mouth out with soap!! 
I am not, nor ever have been, a BA employee.
CAA, NATS, UK Mil plc ... yes
I have however spent all my working life in the aviation world ... starting at age 17. I will also admit to working at LHR in black wooden huts on the North Side in the 60's
I agree that PPRuNe contains a massive 'database' of experience ... my only point was that the "CC-Specific" Forum exists for the CC and not SLF. I just felt, at the time, that there was a wee bit of overspill.
I can understand your feeling that your working life and traumas should be kept private, but can only suggest that such details are not displayed on a public forum.
I am not, nor ever have been, a BA employee.
CAA, NATS, UK Mil plc ... yes
I have however spent all my working life in the aviation world ... starting at age 17. I will also admit to working at LHR in black wooden huts on the North Side in the 60's
I agree that PPRuNe contains a massive 'database' of experience ... my only point was that the "CC-Specific" Forum exists for the CC and not SLF. I just felt, at the time, that there was a wee bit of overspill.
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Call100,
What attitude, the only part of my post directed at you was the question about whether your experience of a big move from one union to the other was during industrial action. How can that be an attitude?
The rest was just to make sure people did not think I spoke for the PCCC.
I just was saying that I support them and appreciate their help and how good it is to be able to communicate with other like minded crew. It was aimed at the crew that were moaning not you.
What attitude, the only part of my post directed at you was the question about whether your experience of a big move from one union to the other was during industrial action. How can that be an attitude?
The rest was just to make sure people did not think I spoke for the PCCC.
I just was saying that I support them and appreciate their help and how good it is to be able to communicate with other like minded crew. It was aimed at the crew that were moaning not you.
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OK, It was just the way it was written and the way I read it....The answer to your question is no, not in a period of IA but in a period of conflict which decided IA or not.
I'm glad you are happy with PCCC. I await their public emergence...
I'm glad you are happy with PCCC. I await their public emergence...
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What's Next
We have now had the big meeting which apparently went exactly as predicted. Based on the physical constraints of the venue attendance was a maximum of + or- 750 and possibly less. Nothing has changed. The only thing that was interesting from what has been reported about the meeting is the proposal to tax each BASSA member an additional 5 lbs per month to subsidize commuters who have lost their ST. This would indicate to me that the loss of ST is causing problems for the BASSA leadership. BASSA leadership want a strike vote. United undoubtedly do not want a strike vote and have the sole authority to call for the vote. It is unclear to me who has the actual authority to set the strike dates and call the strike after a strike is authorized. BASSA seems to be a toothless dog at the moment reduced to only being able to threaten a strike in an attempt to reduce BA’s forward bookings. What are BASSA members now going to do. They have lost wages, lost ST, will not receive salary increases and have no leverage with BA. If members do something that subjects them to termination Mixed Fleet grows faster.
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pcat60
It troubles me as a passenger that BASSA has an "attitude problem" that is completely incompatible with my expectations of the sort of person that a steward/stewardess ought to be.
I agree with nearly everything that pcat60 says._ It is an excellent analysis._ The only thing that I disagree with is
I think that BASSA is a ferocious vindictive dog which has been put on a lead - in fact two dog-leads - one the BA dog-lead and the other the Unite dog-lead._ In 2011 I predict that Unite will accept the Final Offer which will then improve the control that BA has over what can only be described as a cult.
The history of cults is very sad - however exceptionally a cult can reform itself (unfortunately I can find no examples of reformation)._ If BASSA can no longer bite BA or Unite then the emergence of PCCC will provide a most attractive target for BASSA.
I agree with nearly everything that pcat60 says._ It is an excellent analysis._ The only thing that I disagree with is
BASSA seems to be a toothless dog
The history of cults is very sad - however exceptionally a cult can reform itself (unfortunately I can find no examples of reformation)._ If BASSA can no longer bite BA or Unite then the emergence of PCCC will provide a most attractive target for BASSA.
Last edited by notlangley; 8th Sep 2010 at 03:23. Reason: grammar
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notlangley
I think your post reference the cult mentality is spot on. Bassa have a central hard core group of extremists. I was in PATCO (US air traffic controllers union) when we went on strike in 1983. We were all made to believe that we had the moral high ground and that the government would cave at the chaos we would cause to the US airlines.
We believed what we were told because we wanted to believe what we were being told by the union. As you know it all went horribly wrong and the controllers that didn't go back to work in 48 hours were all dismissed. We still were told that we would win and believed it for a while.
When you are involved in something you feel passionately about you believe anything you are told that agrees with your position. I think that is where the hard core militants are right now.
We believed what we were told because we wanted to believe what we were being told by the union. As you know it all went horribly wrong and the controllers that didn't go back to work in 48 hours were all dismissed. We still were told that we would win and believed it for a while.
When you are involved in something you feel passionately about you believe anything you are told that agrees with your position. I think that is where the hard core militants are right now.
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All I see is you constantly criticising the PCCC, which puts you in the BASSA or moaners barrel.
Last edited by Lotpax; 8th Sep 2010 at 11:10.
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the proposal to tax each BASSA member an additional 5 lbs per month to subsidize commuters who have lost their ST.
Jesting aside, it's incorrect to say nothing happened at the union meeting as it appears a very significant development has only just filtered out. From another place.....
"Duncan said at meeting strikes ain't gonna work as Walsh has a huge volunteer army, not to mention our own scabs! The only thing we can target is forward bookings. "
That admission that the strike strategy is doomed is possibly the biggest step forward in some time, and it means that the power to defeat the strike now rest with the passengers! Book BA and the strategy fails! I might even suggest that as an idea to the advertising department!
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I have been lucky enough to meet JSL and she is a very reasonable, balanced individual (also very clever) who cares passionately about BA and doing a great job.
May I ask re: the Star of David as it's been posted here and on the other thread - did anybody see this, was it really this symbol, and did the person speak about it or was merely pictured with it on? I can only hope this isn't true or it's not what it seems, and would really appreciate someone connected with BASSA explaining as I can't go over and ask on the CC forum.
In case anyone is any doubt about this the person interviewed clearly was wearing a yellow star of David with BASSA written in the middle. The Nazis made all jews wear a cloth, yellow star of David with the word Jude written in the middle.
I would presume that the person at the meeting was a crew member who had lost staff travel/disciplined and was making the statement 'I am being treated like the Jews were by WW (shown as Hitler in past) and Nazi BA management'
In case anyone is any doubt about this the person interviewed clearly was wearing a yellow star of David with BASSA written in the middle. The Nazis made all jews wear a cloth, yellow star of David with the word Jude written in the middle.
I would presume that the person at the meeting was a crew member who had lost staff travel/disciplined and was making the statement 'I am being treated like the Jews were by WW (shown as Hitler in past) and Nazi BA management'
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A question for the lawyers;
If DH takes any action that affects BA's business, is that unofficial industrial action. If so, can BA sue Unite for compensation. Does anyone with legal knowledge know the answer?
Dave
If DH takes any action that affects BA's business, is that unofficial industrial action. If so, can BA sue Unite for compensation. Does anyone with legal knowledge know the answer?
Dave