Bing-bong "This is your captain/flight attendant/whoever..."
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Jipperty,
1. Yes, flight deck doors are locked from the inside, and can only be opened by the flight crew inside. In the case cabin crew need access to the flight deck in an emergency like pilot incapacitation, there is an emergency code, which, if entered, will give a signal to the pilots, They can then visually check who is outside the door, and if it is not cabin crew, they can elect to keep the door locked, and there is no way to get through it.
Door guarding procedures are varied depending on airline policies and regulations, but yes, the cabin crew is instructed to try to stop anyone forcefully entering the flight deck in-flight. Whether they are able to or not, won't be known until it happens. I, for one, would do my very best!
2. Yes, as far as I am aware, airlines do have the duty of care towards all onboard. I wouldn't be sure of legal interpretations here, but generally speaking, yes. Airlines are also required to carry first aid and/ or medical kits, these are part of the so called MEL (minimum equipment list), without which that aeroplane cannot fly.
3. Im really not sure about statistics on that one, I have no idea how frequent or serious in-flight fires actually are. My understanding is that they are rare, but hey, that's exactly why cabin crew are trained to deal with fire and smoke scenarions, just in case of the rare event they do occur.
Equipment used for cabin service may, of course, be the most common reason for fires, however, that is not to say that without this equipment no fires would occur at all.
To sum up my opinion on why it is necessary to have cabin crew onboard, it is because the aircraft operates in a very specific environment, ie far above the ground. If you have a fire on the train, you do yuur best, save yourself then STOP AND CALL THE FIREBRIGADE.
If you have unruly passengers on the train, or someone causing criminal dmagae, or committing a crime, once again, YOU STOP AND CALL THE POLICE!
If you have any kind of medical emergency on a train, again, you do your best, STOP AND CALL THE AMBULANCE.
What do you do on a plane, though? You could carry a few firefighters, policemen, medical professionals, etc on every flight. That would be expensive and unreasonable, given that a serious incidents don't happen that often (nothing in my case in nearly five years of flying) It is a lot easier to employ the lovely cabin crew who are trained and practiced (to an extent) to deal with these scenarios, although only trained to the extent it is necessary (ie no, cabin crew are not fully trained fire fighters, policemen, nurses, doctors, terrorist squads, but a little tiny bit all of those).
B
1. Yes, flight deck doors are locked from the inside, and can only be opened by the flight crew inside. In the case cabin crew need access to the flight deck in an emergency like pilot incapacitation, there is an emergency code, which, if entered, will give a signal to the pilots, They can then visually check who is outside the door, and if it is not cabin crew, they can elect to keep the door locked, and there is no way to get through it.
Door guarding procedures are varied depending on airline policies and regulations, but yes, the cabin crew is instructed to try to stop anyone forcefully entering the flight deck in-flight. Whether they are able to or not, won't be known until it happens. I, for one, would do my very best!
2. Yes, as far as I am aware, airlines do have the duty of care towards all onboard. I wouldn't be sure of legal interpretations here, but generally speaking, yes. Airlines are also required to carry first aid and/ or medical kits, these are part of the so called MEL (minimum equipment list), without which that aeroplane cannot fly.
3. Im really not sure about statistics on that one, I have no idea how frequent or serious in-flight fires actually are. My understanding is that they are rare, but hey, that's exactly why cabin crew are trained to deal with fire and smoke scenarions, just in case of the rare event they do occur.
Equipment used for cabin service may, of course, be the most common reason for fires, however, that is not to say that without this equipment no fires would occur at all.
To sum up my opinion on why it is necessary to have cabin crew onboard, it is because the aircraft operates in a very specific environment, ie far above the ground. If you have a fire on the train, you do yuur best, save yourself then STOP AND CALL THE FIREBRIGADE.
If you have unruly passengers on the train, or someone causing criminal dmagae, or committing a crime, once again, YOU STOP AND CALL THE POLICE!
If you have any kind of medical emergency on a train, again, you do your best, STOP AND CALL THE AMBULANCE.
What do you do on a plane, though? You could carry a few firefighters, policemen, medical professionals, etc on every flight. That would be expensive and unreasonable, given that a serious incidents don't happen that often (nothing in my case in nearly five years of flying) It is a lot easier to employ the lovely cabin crew who are trained and practiced (to an extent) to deal with these scenarios, although only trained to the extent it is necessary (ie no, cabin crew are not fully trained fire fighters, policemen, nurses, doctors, terrorist squads, but a little tiny bit all of those).
B
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F3G,
I think the point made there was more general, ie if somebody was trying to interfere with safety or safety equipment, then he would like trained crew to deal with it.
I think the point made there was more general, ie if somebody was trying to interfere with safety or safety equipment, then he would like trained crew to deal with it.
As a very frequent flyer, I get VERY p***ed off with the PAX who ignore the safety briefing. Their stupidity and ignorance could cost me my life.
When I first 'flew' - as SLF of course - I paid attention to the safety briefing. A few years later, travelling 2 or 3 times a month I thought it was 'cool' to show that as I was a regular [and therfore very important] pax, there was no need whatsoever for me to pay any attention to the briefing.
Now however, thanks partly to PPRune, and also to being a lot older and wiser, I always take care to put down my book/newspaper during the briefing, out of self-preservation and also out of politeness.
The one thing I always do without fail, is to count the number of seats between me and the nearest exits [in front and behind] - I'm always amazed how many pax never seem to look around them during the safety briefing.
I know the chances of an incident are rare, [which is perhaps why so many non-frequent fliers seem to be so un-concerned], but it is always better to be safe than sorry - which is why I agree with radeng - I do not want to be obstructed getting to an emergency exit by someone going the 'wrong' way.
Now however, thanks partly to PPRune, and also to being a lot older and wiser, I always take care to put down my book/newspaper during the briefing, out of self-preservation and also out of politeness.
The one thing I always do without fail, is to count the number of seats between me and the nearest exits [in front and behind] - I'm always amazed how many pax never seem to look around them during the safety briefing.
I know the chances of an incident are rare, [which is perhaps why so many non-frequent fliers seem to be so un-concerned], but it is always better to be safe than sorry - which is why I agree with radeng - I do not want to be obstructed getting to an emergency exit by someone going the 'wrong' way.
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Speaking of automation...
Found myself in the front carriage of the Dubai metro in the position i would have expected a driver to be.
Totally automated. No Staff on the train whatsoever.
Working in IT industry i felt rather more comfortable knowing that "some" chance of human error had been eliminated
Smala01
Found myself in the front carriage of the Dubai metro in the position i would have expected a driver to be.
Totally automated. No Staff on the train whatsoever.
Working in IT industry i felt rather more comfortable knowing that "some" chance of human error had been eliminated
Smala01
But smala01, what happens when something goes wrong? Like a fire, or a derailment, or a failure caused by a hot axle box which could lead to both? Who looks after the PAX then?
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Recent posting in Rumour and News has referred to the NTSB final report on US1549 (ditching in the Hudson) here including this observation:
So regardless of many of the comments above, what is being done isn't working. Time for a rethink?
On a more serious note:
17% of pax watched the safety brief (or "most" of it)
8% of pax actually looked at the safety card
6% of pax got themselves a life jacket
Ouch. They were very very lucky to be in an EOW aircraft with the pilot they had, but that's really riding your luck.
17% of pax watched the safety brief (or "most" of it)
8% of pax actually looked at the safety card
6% of pax got themselves a life jacket
Ouch. They were very very lucky to be in an EOW aircraft with the pilot they had, but that's really riding your luck.
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Safety Cards
All the very interesting and valuable information posted here has made me feel even more guilty about my original tongue-in-cheek but rather inappropriate post - for which I have already apologised.
That is a very interesting point re the Hudson River ditching - and raises the question of when safety information should be made available to passengers. Should it, for example, be provided when they book on line and be delivered electronically with their tickets - so it can be printed out and studied well before the flight?
I recently flew on a DHC-8-402 and have to admit that until I read the safety card had no idea that in the event of ditching the two rear doors would not be opened and all evacuation should be through the two front exits (one of which is passenger operated) - quite an issue if there are 75 people on board. I don't recall this being mentioned in the briefing from the cabin crew - but I could be wrong about that.
And are safety cards for all the myriad types of airliner available on the internet ? If they are I don't know where to find them.
That is a very interesting point re the Hudson River ditching - and raises the question of when safety information should be made available to passengers. Should it, for example, be provided when they book on line and be delivered electronically with their tickets - so it can be printed out and studied well before the flight?
I recently flew on a DHC-8-402 and have to admit that until I read the safety card had no idea that in the event of ditching the two rear doors would not be opened and all evacuation should be through the two front exits (one of which is passenger operated) - quite an issue if there are 75 people on board. I don't recall this being mentioned in the briefing from the cabin crew - but I could be wrong about that.
And are safety cards for all the myriad types of airliner available on the internet ? If they are I don't know where to find them.
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Korrol. I've been flying for more years than I care to remember as crew and as passenger. When the safety briefing is being given I still give it about 90% of my attention. The other 10% is used to find the pratts who are going to get in my way to the emergency exit when the Sh*t hits the fan. If you are one of those pratts then I will tread all over you...
Have a nice day
Regards
Have a nice day
Regards
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I think the point made there was more general, ie if somebody was trying to interfere with safety or safety equipment, then he would like trained crew to deal with it
However, my comment was not entirely serious.
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If you are one of those pratts then I will tread all over you...
And I have been in a fire where over 50 people died around me, so I know what it feels like and am not talking from hypothesis.
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The subject of the "Safety Briefing" comes up every now and again.
The thread usually starts with someone observing, correctly, that as a procedure it's ineffective when employed in 95% of the flights that operate every day around the world.
Then a mixture of retired crew and self-declared frequent flyers waving their willies about how often they fly pile in, missing the point entirely, and assert correctly that it's necessary for passengers to know what to do in an emergency.
Whatever might happen in the USA, in the rest of the world the briefing will be given in the carrier's language and again, if you are lucky, in broken English that's often unintelligible to English speakers, let alone the, say, 25% - 50% of the passengers who speak neither the carrier's language nor English.
The briefing as still practised where there's no video has not changed in any significant way since I first saw it in 1965.
The demo of putting on a life jacket is fine, but go round the cabin after it, as I have done, and ask a selection of passengers to actually find it and get in into their hands quickly, and most will fail to do that.
The ritual, silly little dance movement "showing the exits" merely tells the watcher that there are doors front and back, to someone who understands that's what the vague, choreographed wave is about.
Pointing out that this pointless farce is ridiculous does not condemn me as someone who doesn't understand that passengers need to know what to do, and be reminded frequently.
It just puts me in the category of those who think, sorry, know that a better way must be found of achieving that.
Statements like
simply tell me that whoever says it is an idiot. It's a very good thing that OyYou was not on board US1549, where he could easily have been solely responsible for the deaths of a lot of people as he trampled his way over them to the exit.
The thread usually starts with someone observing, correctly, that as a procedure it's ineffective when employed in 95% of the flights that operate every day around the world.
Then a mixture of retired crew and self-declared frequent flyers waving their willies about how often they fly pile in, missing the point entirely, and assert correctly that it's necessary for passengers to know what to do in an emergency.
Whatever might happen in the USA, in the rest of the world the briefing will be given in the carrier's language and again, if you are lucky, in broken English that's often unintelligible to English speakers, let alone the, say, 25% - 50% of the passengers who speak neither the carrier's language nor English.
The briefing as still practised where there's no video has not changed in any significant way since I first saw it in 1965.
The demo of putting on a life jacket is fine, but go round the cabin after it, as I have done, and ask a selection of passengers to actually find it and get in into their hands quickly, and most will fail to do that.
The ritual, silly little dance movement "showing the exits" merely tells the watcher that there are doors front and back, to someone who understands that's what the vague, choreographed wave is about.
Pointing out that this pointless farce is ridiculous does not condemn me as someone who doesn't understand that passengers need to know what to do, and be reminded frequently.
It just puts me in the category of those who think, sorry, know that a better way must be found of achieving that.
Statements like
The other 10% is used to find the pratts who are going to get in my way to the emergency exit when the Sh*t hits the fan. If you are one of those pratts then I will tread all over you...
Then a mixture of retired crew and self-declared frequent flyers waving their willies about how often they fly pile in, missing the point entirely,
Pprune without the willie waving would be like the world cup without any flags.
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From original post:
[Why don't cabin crew] just get on with what they're supposed to do?
So, that would be providing a safety demonstration as required by law, yes?
This is the most pointless thread ever.
[Why don't cabin crew] just get on with what they're supposed to do?
So, that would be providing a safety demonstration as required by law, yes?
This is the most pointless thread ever.
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bizdev
I used Air Berlin about 30 times. Even on flights inside Germany I always heard German/English safety announcements. Whatever happened on your flight it seems to me being an exception. I agree with you that this could irritate someone not speaking German.
Flying pretty often these days (same carriers and same type of aircraft) I rarely pay attention to the safety briefing. BUT: whenever I fly on a different type/subtype I take my time to look where the emergency exists are located and I also have a look at the safety card.
Flying pretty often these days (same carriers and same type of aircraft) I rarely pay attention to the safety briefing. BUT: whenever I fly on a different type/subtype I take my time to look where the emergency exists are located and I also have a look at the safety card.
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Capot writes (quoting OyYou):
Statements like
simply tell me that whoever says it is an idiot. It's a very good thing that OyYou was not on board US1549, where he could easily have been solely responsible for the deaths of a lot of people as he trampled his way over them to the exit.
Statements like
The other 10% is used to find the pratts who are going to get in my way to the emergency exit when the Sh*t hits the fan. If you are one of those pratts then I will tread all over you...
I don't think OyYou was saying he'd make a mad dash for the nearest exit and simply trample everyone in his way.
And I don't think either one of us would just pass by someone who truly needs help.
Oy could have worded it a little better...
But I partially agree with him, in that I too will go around/over any pratt who puts a higher value on his carry-on stuff than his life or mine and delays both of us by trying to collect all his belonging before exiting.
I'm not going to risk death waiting for you to collect your duty-free booze or your laptop.
Think of it as chlorine in the gene pool, if you will.
Regarding all the comments vis a vis "I've heard it so many times I don't need to..." all I can think to say is that it's a total of maybe 5 minutes, and you're captive at the moment anyway.
Can't you spare the time? Will you absolutely just die paying attention one more time?
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I don't think I said
"I've heard it so many times ...".
My comment on the BA video was that it was out of sync with what was happening. We're already moving and should already be strapped in and "To fasten your seat belt, insert the ..." Then they tell you that your carry-on must be in the overhead lockers or ... long after that already has been done. This is BORING after the first dozen times.
The Hudson experience tells us that few people (except PPRuNers of course) pay attention or read the card.
If we want better knowledge we need to rethink this. What's being done isn't working.
I suggested above that those obnoxious CNN/SKY news video machines at the gate be used to show you the safety video. Perhaps something a little more realistic - such as showing a realistic depressurisation (noise and fog and all of that). Wouldn't you love to see a realistic depiction of the slides forming rafts?
My comment on the BA video was that it was out of sync with what was happening. We're already moving and should already be strapped in and "To fasten your seat belt, insert the ..." Then they tell you that your carry-on must be in the overhead lockers or ... long after that already has been done. This is BORING after the first dozen times.
The Hudson experience tells us that few people (except PPRuNers of course) pay attention or read the card.
If we want better knowledge we need to rethink this. What's being done isn't working.
I suggested above that those obnoxious CNN/SKY news video machines at the gate be used to show you the safety video. Perhaps something a little more realistic - such as showing a realistic depressurisation (noise and fog and all of that). Wouldn't you love to see a realistic depiction of the slides forming rafts?
N4790P
Before I get chastised, I do pay attention to every briefing but and it is a big but, this ongoing issue that every aircraft is different therefore…………….…. is really a red herring.
I fly on the same S E Asian carrier just about every week. Their video briefing is identical (except for the locations of the emergency exits) irrespective of aircraft type. This briefing is given in English and their local language and the safety card is in English only.
Unless we mandate ICAO level 4 for pax there is a hole in the briefing process already.
As others have pointed out, the briefing is normally given after pushback when it is pointless being briefed on how and where to stow cabin baggage, how to fasten seat belts and so on.
I always check where MY exit is both fore and aft. I count how many seats I’ll need to climb over to get to it as I assume everyone around me won’t have a clue what to do. I clearly understand that the cc will be totally powerless to help as in the event they are already at the exit I’ll need to get to.
I don’t know what the answer is but modern briefings are both repetitive and boring. There has to be a better way. Possibly an on line test either at home or in the departure lounge with a personal briefing for those who fail or who haven’t performed the test?
I fly on the same S E Asian carrier just about every week. Their video briefing is identical (except for the locations of the emergency exits) irrespective of aircraft type. This briefing is given in English and their local language and the safety card is in English only.
Unless we mandate ICAO level 4 for pax there is a hole in the briefing process already.
As others have pointed out, the briefing is normally given after pushback when it is pointless being briefed on how and where to stow cabin baggage, how to fasten seat belts and so on.
I always check where MY exit is both fore and aft. I count how many seats I’ll need to climb over to get to it as I assume everyone around me won’t have a clue what to do. I clearly understand that the cc will be totally powerless to help as in the event they are already at the exit I’ll need to get to.
I don’t know what the answer is but modern briefings are both repetitive and boring. There has to be a better way. Possibly an on line test either at home or in the departure lounge with a personal briefing for those who fail or who haven’t performed the test?