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BA Strike - Your Thoughts & Questions

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BA Strike - Your Thoughts & Questions

Old 29th May 2010, 08:46
  #1941 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Sweden
Age: 52
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Training required for different positions

I would like to state that all the training times listed are approximate, and that I appreciate that things will very from country to country and from operator to operator.

Training time required for pilot to attain ATPL :-

2 years

Training time required to become an EASA licensed aircraft engineer :-

3 years absolute minimum

Training time required to become cabin crew :-

3 weeks.......

Now, I wonder which group of people are most easily replaced if so required....
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Old 29th May 2010, 08:50
  #1942 (permalink)  
 
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jethrobee:
Surely Bassa would be better off looking at the tax implications of this before insisting.
dilldog1:
add to that that the Revenue would then probably view ALL airline staff travel in the UK as a taxable item then you going to have a lot of unhappy people
Please don't underestimate BASSA's ability to cut of their nose to spite their face, so to speak......logic, taking the wider view and thinking of what's best for the majority... I don't think so
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Old 29th May 2010, 09:15
  #1943 (permalink)  

the lunatic fringe
 
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Training time required for pilot to attain ATPL :-

2 years
However to get to sit in the left hand seat of a 777/747 you are looking at 15 to 20 years flying experience. It has been done in less, but not that often, and the insurers get a little twitchy I believe.
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Old 29th May 2010, 09:22
  #1944 (permalink)  
 
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However to get to sit in the left hand seat of a 777/747 you are looking at 15 to 20 years flying experience. It has been done in less, but not that often, and the insurers get a little twitchy I believe.
Quite so L337. And on a similar note someone who is trained in a "Part147 superstore" with the bare bones 12 months experience required to get a B1 or B2 EASA AME license is not going to become a chief engineer immediately either .
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Old 29th May 2010, 10:15
  #1945 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Dec 2000
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Just for clarification ...

Staff Travel does attract a tax liability. However, BA pays an agreed sum to the Inland Revenue (or whatever they are called nowadays) to cover.

Another reason to remove it from the strikers - BA is subsidizing our staff travel, don't see why this should apply to people who are damaging the company.
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Old 29th May 2010, 11:09
  #1946 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
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DOH!

For the older ones who may remember, there is a great song by Jefferson Airplane called 'White Rabbit', which tells of Alice and the pills that made her taller or smaller, and her journeys through Wonderland................ Reading the other thread it does sound as if Duncan Holley has found a little bottle of these somewhere, as his postings are getting more like something Lewis Carroll would have penned!

After all this is over, at least he will be unable to influence so many members of the Cult, unless of course Unite give him a job??
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Old 29th May 2010, 11:17
  #1947 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: May 2010
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I really hope Willie doesn't give in on travel to the strikers. In fact i would be more likely to use BA sooner if i new all the rotten apples were no longer there.

Regarding Bassa/Unite assertion that removing travel from strikers is discrimination and illegal. Why then are they asking for it back (negotiating) when it could be got back for free?
And whilst i dont think they will get much UK support for a legal case of getting it back, they might in Europe..BUT..Given the new government coalitions views on EU beaurocracy and power being taken from the host government to EU..i would be surprised to see..or not..back room machinations to keep UK sweet.
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Old 29th May 2010, 11:36
  #1948 (permalink)  
 
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If, as reported, BA is going to start recruiting new crew onto New Fleet shortly, Unite should start negotiating a settlement ASAP.

WW has said that it doesn't need any agreement with Unite to start New Fleet. Without any agreement with Unite, it has carte blanche to implement New Fleet as it pleases. So it could be adieu to NRT, SIN, HKG etc for current CC.
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Old 29th May 2010, 13:08
  #1949 (permalink)  
 
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I'm rather amazed that Mr. Holley's missives are about crews over-indulging, cakes and pouting that he hasn't met Mr. Walsh, rather than serious issues regarding what this strike means for BASSA's members.

His updates have the ring of pre-teen messages about Friday nights party.

I see on the CC forum that we have a poster making the inane comparison between this strike and a court case.

You can "back BA", negotiate, and even litigate in a professional manner. That is quite different from wearing BA's executives photos on your rear-end while screaming at hotels.
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Old 29th May 2010, 13:31
  #1950 (permalink)  
 
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I would like to say thank you to BASSA, as due to the IA BA have have just renewed Mrs. J's gold memember even though it looked like she would drop down to silver.
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Old 29th May 2010, 14:01
  #1951 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
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Staff Travel explained

"Twenty five per cent of cabin crew lost staff travel in March for going on strike.
The airline warned in January that strikers would face a permanent staff travel ban.
Crew taking part in the latest strike action were given the same warning.
Travel concessions are a non-contractual benefit offered at the company's discretion.
Staff travel was not the reason cabin crew first voted to go on strike. The ballot related to cost saving measures in IFCE. The airline has since addressed all those concerns and reached agreement in principle with Unite but not with its branch, Bassa.
During the negotiations facilitated by the Trades Union Congress (TUC), BA's CEO Willie Walsh agreed to a request from the TUC general secretary Brendan Barber to consider lifting the permanent ban on staff travel for crew who had lost it.
The compromise meant that commuting crew who had taken action would get the use of staff travel for journeys to and from work as soon as an agreement is reached. Other crew would get their concessions back once a deal was fully implemented. There were conditions attached to the offer including the roll back of seniority.
Everyone would get it back on retirement.
The offer included regular monitoring of the deal and its implimentation, with the first review after 12 months.
Willie Walsh said afterwards that he had agreed to the compromise because he felt that many crew had been misled by Bassa.
BA has recently made another significant gesture by keeping the staff travel offer on the table, despite stating it would be withdrawn if Unite went ahead with the current strikes.
Unite want staff travel to be returned immediately and in its current form."

"How does staff travel work?
Travel concessions are a non-contractual benefit provided at the company's discretion
Current and retired staff used more than 60,000 bookable concessions during 09/10, a significant rise since a more flexible policy was introduced in April 2009.
The airline incurs direct costs of putting an additional passenger onto a plane and the costs of the infrastructure that supports staff travel.
Colleagues pay a 10 booking fee to cover some of the costs.
Although strictly a personal tax liability, BA chooses to pick up the tax bill on behalf of both employees and pensioners and settles this with Her Majesty's Revenue and Customs every year."

The above is lifted directly from BANews dated 27 May 2010.

Last edited by TruBlu123; 29th May 2010 at 14:02. Reason: typo
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Old 29th May 2010, 16:35
  #1952 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: May 2010
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How many flights can some one get per year or is it unlimited and this is where seniority would come into play?
Are these for long haul as well as short haul.
Are they class limited..economy/flexible economy/business/First?
That figure is an Awful lot of trips.

From the main CC thread it appears the union asked that the TS be reinstated and they would suspend industrial action..not cancel it.
And i believe that Unite have allready said many of the proposals on the table are significantly improvements to the last offer ( but worse than what was offered last year)
but Bassa just keep saying no. And have even voted with a show of hands for a " no negotiation" stance.

As a normal working Joe this is what gets me so damn mad about the strikers and i suspect the rest of BA and the country. V, Good pay, excellent perks and they are striking.
Me and my Wife can't even afford premium economy when flying atlantic. I sincerely hope CC TS isnt pushing the price up of anything other than economy seats by creating an artifical scarcity. Mind saying that, while 60,000 is a lot in the scheme of things its a drop in the ocean.
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Old 29th May 2010, 18:08
  #1953 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: May 2010
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Keep it up BASSA!

I would like to say thank you to BASSA, as due to the IA BA have have just renewed Mrs. J's gold memember even though it looked like she would drop down to silver.
My experience has been similar, during the IA having travelled LH on 4 occasions now during strike days BA have never failed to get me to my destination. The only inconvenience was when my scheduled SFO flight was cancelled but was put on the earlier flight with a free upgrade to first - very nice thankyou BASSA
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Old 29th May 2010, 18:37
  #1954 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
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From the other thread... The CAA and Boeing have just approved a drop in minimum crew on the 767 down to 5 for under 240 pax.I don`t know if this was from a request by BA but it could mean 1 more crew off a 767.

Perhaps BA are planning their rostering with 2500 fewer CC for a few (3) months. Perhaps this ties in with the September recruitment? I for one would accept a lower service for this period if it got rid of the grumpy 'wagon dragons' and allowed BA to restore a sensibly costed service.

My sympathies lie with those whose, perhaps misguided/misdirected, actions will cause them to regret their stance.
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Old 29th May 2010, 18:42
  #1955 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: May 2010
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Wagon Dragons

I for one would accept a lower service for this period if it got rid of the grumpy 'wagon dragons' and allowed BA to restore a sensibly costed service.
I couldn't agree more.
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Old 29th May 2010, 20:14
  #1956 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
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I'm rather amazed that Mr. Holley's missives are about crews over-indulging, cakes and pouting that he hasn't met Mr. Walsh, rather than serious issues regarding what this strike means for BASSA's members.
I'm not.

Clearly, Mister Holley has nothing substantive to write about as - to paraphrase Willie Walsh some months ago - he is not sitting at the top table. On the contrary, Duncan Holley is on the table.

Last edited by Chuchinchow; 30th May 2010 at 09:30.
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Old 30th May 2010, 07:48
  #1957 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: May 2010
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giggle

Pre coffee fug and it has just occured to me this whole dispute is like lord of the rings.
I think we are at Return of The king.
Saruman is defeated and locked in his tower ( Duncan H). Aragorn ( Willie Walsh ) is taking a breather wondering what to do. The Orcs ( BA strikers) are now looking at unite for leadership. Unite ( Sauron) are bottled up in their fortress desperately making plans for a final push.
Supporting cast
Nazgul/Wrath Riders .. Bassa Reps
Golem...Mr Simpson
Hobbits..Working CC

gave me a giggle anyway.
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Old 30th May 2010, 08:37
  #1958 (permalink)  
 
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ChicoG:

I suspect he wrote at least one of his banal contributions while drunk.
I believe I know which one you are referring to and I had the exact same thought.
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Old 30th May 2010, 08:58
  #1959 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
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After all the claims and counter claims running through the thousands of posts on this sorry saga, perhaps it is time to remind ourselves that the initial dispute was about whether Cabin Service Directors should take an active part in the service to passengers.

To protect their hallowed 'managerial' roles on world wide fleets, a BASSA council dominated by CSDs was prepared to lead 12000+ cabin crew (many working under completely different conditions) into a twelve day strike over Christmas. Even though that was avoided, their subsequent actions have caused untold damage to BA and alienated most of the other staff in the airline. As an ex-union man, I cannot recall any industrial action which has had so little support - never mind active antagonism - from the staff as a whole.

I have yet to see it denied on these forums that many of the BASSA council have conveniently been able to avoid personal consequences by being off sick.

I feel very sorry for junior crew who have been so cruelly misled and may see their future careers blighted by the stubborn refusal of their 'leaders' to accept the reality of the economic situation facing the airlines of the world.

SB
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Old 30th May 2010, 09:18
  #1960 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
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Wisdom from the "other" thread

As for the ex employee who represents BA crew. I watched some of the Lord of the Rings movie and its clear that that you cannot give up the ring of power unless it is prized from your fingers. Ask Mugabe, Blair, Brown and the ex employee who still represents cabin crew.
I think there is some truth in that.
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