BA Cabin Crew Strike Threats (Merged)
A Runyonesque Character
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Lemme tell you a story …
BA used to be the biggest airline in Europe. As recently as 2003. In 2004 it was overtaken by Lufthansa and Air France (we’re talking passenger-kilometres here, the commonest measure of size).
In 2006, Ryanair overtook BA in total passengers boarded.
In 2007 Easyjet overtook BA in total passengers boarded.
In the meantime, Air France and KLM have joined together, and are in the process of incorporating Alitalia. Think: double the size of BA
Lufthansa has taken over Swiss and is in the process of taking over Austrian, BMI and Brussels Airlines. Think: 60% bigger than BA
Get the picture? BA is going backwards. It’s not in the same league globally as the two big players and on the shorthaul it’s being eaten alive by FR and U2. It can’t compete with these guys carrying a millstone around its neck.
As for HMG bailing out BA, get real. Alitalia and Olympic, for better or for worse (mostly worse) were instruments of national policy. Except for Concorde, BA hasn’t been an instrument of national policy for 35 years.
In 2006, Ryanair overtook BA in total passengers boarded.
In 2007 Easyjet overtook BA in total passengers boarded.
In the meantime, Air France and KLM have joined together, and are in the process of incorporating Alitalia. Think: double the size of BA
Lufthansa has taken over Swiss and is in the process of taking over Austrian, BMI and Brussels Airlines. Think: 60% bigger than BA
Get the picture? BA is going backwards. It’s not in the same league globally as the two big players and on the shorthaul it’s being eaten alive by FR and U2. It can’t compete with these guys carrying a millstone around its neck.
As for HMG bailing out BA, get real. Alitalia and Olympic, for better or for worse (mostly worse) were instruments of national policy. Except for Concorde, BA hasn’t been an instrument of national policy for 35 years.
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As someone who, with immense sadness and greater anger, spent yesterday rebooking many thousands of pounds worth of travel away from BA as we simply cannot afford a risk of disruption and the contractual problems and loss of business it causes, may I remind those of BA cabin staff who think a strike is a clever idea that they are almost unemployable outside their present job at any price, and certainly unemployable at the incomes they presently enjoy.
No-one's hiring. Did you notice that?
The same goes for most of BA's management, of course. But that does not justify a suicide strike which kills the airline.
I have just heard an idiot using the pseudonym of "Ben" (I think) on Radio 2 speaking for BA's striking CC; his case was no more than a feeble whinge about "erosion" over the years, followed by a denial that BA CC get £30K vs Virgin CC £14K. The right figures, he then said, are £26K for himself vs £20K for a friend in Virgin! He threatened that if crew numbers are reduced by one on some flights, economy passengers might have to get their own water. Just as as I and other pax had to do, in fact, coming back from BOM the other day, without any noticeable distress. He forgot to mention that the complement of CC is strictly regulated for safety, and that any excess is usually to allow a supervisor not to particpate in meal service and/or to beef up first class service.
Turkeys voting for Christmas seems to be the appropriate and seasonal phrase. BA simply cannot ruin 1,000,000 customers' Christmas travel plans, to say nothing of losing huge sums of their money, and stay in business. To the extent (95% so far) that we have managed to re-arrange all our travel up to March with other airlines, we are OK, but we will never go back to BA, regardess of what happens in the future, and nor will most of those very angry people.
No-one's hiring. Did you notice that?
The same goes for most of BA's management, of course. But that does not justify a suicide strike which kills the airline.
I have just heard an idiot using the pseudonym of "Ben" (I think) on Radio 2 speaking for BA's striking CC; his case was no more than a feeble whinge about "erosion" over the years, followed by a denial that BA CC get £30K vs Virgin CC £14K. The right figures, he then said, are £26K for himself vs £20K for a friend in Virgin! He threatened that if crew numbers are reduced by one on some flights, economy passengers might have to get their own water. Just as as I and other pax had to do, in fact, coming back from BOM the other day, without any noticeable distress. He forgot to mention that the complement of CC is strictly regulated for safety, and that any excess is usually to allow a supervisor not to particpate in meal service and/or to beef up first class service.
Turkeys voting for Christmas seems to be the appropriate and seasonal phrase. BA simply cannot ruin 1,000,000 customers' Christmas travel plans, to say nothing of losing huge sums of their money, and stay in business. To the extent (95% so far) that we have managed to re-arrange all our travel up to March with other airlines, we are OK, but we will never go back to BA, regardess of what happens in the future, and nor will most of those very angry people.
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As a current gold card holder, I would just like to say "it was nice knowing you". I don't need the hassel (or have time to resort my travel plans). No more revenues from me.
From now on:
transatlantic = Virgin or US carrier
Europe = BM or foreign carrier
Far East = Singapore
I assume we will read about the crews joining the dole queue after the Christmas break
From now on:
transatlantic = Virgin or US carrier
Europe = BM or foreign carrier
Far East = Singapore
I assume we will read about the crews joining the dole queue after the Christmas break
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As a current gold card holder, I would just like to say "it was nice knowing you". I don't need the hassel (or have time to resort my travel plans). No more revenues from me.
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As a Gold Card holder on BA, I was surprised when I went to Rio this past September.
I travelled on the Monday from LHR, arriving in Rio the same day because of the time difference. The flight was good and the CC were, as usual, friendly and joking but with an underlying professionalism. I worked my guts out for three days and somewhat shattered got back on the plane on the Thursday night. I was stunned to get a tap on the back and see 'my' hostie from Monday address me by name, hand me my favourite drink and ask how I was. I said, "wow you guys really work hard.. four longhauls in three days" (thinking they had been back to base and back to Rio again - theoretically possible). Shrieks of laughter. They'd been on the beach, sightseeing, sugarloaf, etc etc. For three days. Nice hotel. Pool. Fed and watered. A bit of spending money. "Tell me you are winding me up" I said. But no, it was true.
Time for both the CC and Unite to get real. You cant kill the cow to have roast beef today and expect there to be milk tomorrow.
I travelled on the Monday from LHR, arriving in Rio the same day because of the time difference. The flight was good and the CC were, as usual, friendly and joking but with an underlying professionalism. I worked my guts out for three days and somewhat shattered got back on the plane on the Thursday night. I was stunned to get a tap on the back and see 'my' hostie from Monday address me by name, hand me my favourite drink and ask how I was. I said, "wow you guys really work hard.. four longhauls in three days" (thinking they had been back to base and back to Rio again - theoretically possible). Shrieks of laughter. They'd been on the beach, sightseeing, sugarloaf, etc etc. For three days. Nice hotel. Pool. Fed and watered. A bit of spending money. "Tell me you are winding me up" I said. But no, it was true.
Time for both the CC and Unite to get real. You cant kill the cow to have roast beef today and expect there to be milk tomorrow.
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vulcan558xh
BA Cityflyer crews are not part of the strike action. So all flights from LCY will be operating.
As dhc83driver already gave a list of destinations BA Cityflyer operate to from LCY I will not repeat them, however he missed out our winter ski destination of GVA (Geneva) not sure when it's starting though, but it will be in time for Christmas.
As for the LCY-JFK route: this is crewed from Gatwick, as far as I'm aware Gatwick flights for the most part should not be affected as much, as crews there are already on different contracts to those at LHR. So it seems that the LCY-JFK should be running. Not sure who to ask for a definate answer though.
Hope this is of some help to you.
RJ.
BA Cityflyer crews are not part of the strike action. So all flights from LCY will be operating.
As dhc83driver already gave a list of destinations BA Cityflyer operate to from LCY I will not repeat them, however he missed out our winter ski destination of GVA (Geneva) not sure when it's starting though, but it will be in time for Christmas.
As for the LCY-JFK route: this is crewed from Gatwick, as far as I'm aware Gatwick flights for the most part should not be affected as much, as crews there are already on different contracts to those at LHR. So it seems that the LCY-JFK should be running. Not sure who to ask for a definate answer though.
Hope this is of some help to you.
RJ.
What with the continuing operational losses, the excessive focus by higher management on high-yield business traffic which has now dropped away, the gross deficit in the pension fund, and now personnel who not only show no inclination to accept the cost control measures but want to hit the revenues and inconvenience the customers at a peak period for revenue traffic, the net worth of BA as am ongoing business must now be substantially negative.
So the best thing is to cut the losses quickly and go into administration. A new carrier, with new capital, a freshly-purchased new or secondhand fleet, new personnel on new Terms & Conditions, could probably be back up to about 50% of current BA volumes in two or three years. They would never get it all back but they would get a proportion, the more worthwhile bits.
Sorry shareholders, sorry existing employees, sorry those with pensions paid from a pot no longer being funded by forward operations. That's how it is when a business gets into a hole and then some of the team refuse to help get it out again. Businesses don't have to last for ever.
So the best thing is to cut the losses quickly and go into administration. A new carrier, with new capital, a freshly-purchased new or secondhand fleet, new personnel on new Terms & Conditions, could probably be back up to about 50% of current BA volumes in two or three years. They would never get it all back but they would get a proportion, the more worthwhile bits.
Sorry shareholders, sorry existing employees, sorry those with pensions paid from a pot no longer being funded by forward operations. That's how it is when a business gets into a hole and then some of the team refuse to help get it out again. Businesses don't have to last for ever.
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I'd like to congratulate BA customers services for bringing forward our LHR-CPT flights in order to avoid the strike. They also refunded my seat reservation fee & upgraded us to the Upper Deck. 
As for the strike, I doubt that BA will lose many flights. The CC are rapidly realising that they have NO public support & will report for work as normal.
However, I have nothing but contempt for the Unite trade union for so callously causing so much dismay to 1000s of innocent pax.
As for the strike, I doubt that BA will lose many flights. The CC are rapidly realising that they have NO public support & will report for work as normal.
However, I have nothing but contempt for the Unite trade union for so callously causing so much dismay to 1000s of innocent pax.
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Who Go's Who Stays?
Can anyone advise whether they have been contacted by BA yet and informed of flight cancellations or indeed whether the information is published anywhere?
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I think that the BA Cabin Crew are misguided here in voting for strike action.
I hope somewhere they see sense and realise that another nail in the coffin is not what is needed at the moment. How long before we see BA(2010) plc? New contracts new Ts & Cs? Just glad our Xmas arrangements don't involve travel this year.
I'm not normally one to support or show much sympathy for ba ever since the 'Dirty Tricks' era, the stupid tails and finally Skippy killing the only thing which still made the airline unique - Concorde.
So, apart from a handful of inter-Germany trips, all the 500 or so business flights I've had in the last 6 years have been with Lufthansa / Star Alliance. None have been with ba....
BUT, for someone to say:
sums up unbelievable arrogance from the pathetic 'Unite'. Everyone else in ba is belt-tightening and pulling together to try to pull out of the recessionary spiral, but the overpaid cabin crew are determined to cause the airline to go under.
The only people the 'pax' will be angry with will be the union.
I do wish ba good luck though - these posturing union idiots need a wake-up call and a sound kick up the backside.
So, apart from a handful of inter-Germany trips, all the 500 or so business flights I've had in the last 6 years have been with Lufthansa / Star Alliance. None have been with ba....
BUT, for someone to say:
Unions say they want pax to be angry with BA.
The only people the 'pax' will be angry with will be the union.
I do wish ba good luck though - these posturing union idiots need a wake-up call and a sound kick up the backside.
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Well, with the legal action just announced looks pretty clear that Willie W is going for the ***t or bust card. Rather suspect anyone striking wil get sacked day 1 and BA will argue the toss that the strike wasnt lawful so theres no unfair dismissal involved.
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Another quote from Unite's Gensec (yes, that's the title also used by the old Soviet Union Communist Party)
“More than nine out of ten staff are saying that what is happening is wrong — they want to be treated with dignity and respect,” he said. (Times 15 Dec)
Oh really? Over 90% think it's wrong, and then vote for it? Could one of them explain how that works?
“More than nine out of ten staff are saying that what is happening is wrong — they want to be treated with dignity and respect,” he said. (Times 15 Dec)
Oh really? Over 90% think it's wrong, and then vote for it? Could one of them explain how that works?
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Thanks RJ100
My son has been talking to BA today to see if they would switch his booking Aberdeen to LHR to Gatwick; there were still seats available for the 23rd on several flights.
BA's response, no we can't switch you to another flight during the strike period but you can re-book a flight after the strike is over. This is of no use so my son then asked for a refund. Sorry no refund possible untill the flight has been oficially cancelled. On the BA website they state that they will do everything they can to assist passangers; my son's experience says otherwise. I can't see BA surviving this debacle even if its called off at the last moment.
BA's response, no we can't switch you to another flight during the strike period but you can re-book a flight after the strike is over. This is of no use so my son then asked for a refund. Sorry no refund possible untill the flight has been oficially cancelled. On the BA website they state that they will do everything they can to assist passangers; my son's experience says otherwise. I can't see BA surviving this debacle even if its called off at the last moment.
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Who Go's Who Stays?
Can anyone advise whether they have been contacted by BA yet and informed of flight cancellations or indeed whether the information is published anywhere?
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Methinks some of these pampered BA crew should try working for one of their less glamourous cousins in the charter industry - 3 days in Rio? Try 12hrs hotac in Cancun!
Surely someone in BASSA must see that this is a suicidal strike - they've already had a PR disaster within hours of announcing it and to try and tell us that they're hard done by...well it beggars belief!
Surely someone in BASSA must see that this is a suicidal strike - they've already had a PR disaster within hours of announcing it and to try and tell us that they're hard done by...well it beggars belief!
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This is of no use so my son then asked for a refund. Sorry no refund possible untill the flight has been oficially cancelled. On the BA website they state that they will do everything they can to assist passangers;
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I flew more BA legs this year than I care to count.
But striking at Christmas is just plain mean.
The only response I can have is to take my business elsewhere (irrespective of the outcome) as I just don't want to fly with people who feel that is an appropriate way to treat the people who pay their salaries.
... oh - and, of course, the people who fly on my budget.
... and friends, of course - don't lets forget them.
Cabin crew who voted for a christmas strike don't deserve my ticket money.
Lafite
But striking at Christmas is just plain mean.
The only response I can have is to take my business elsewhere (irrespective of the outcome) as I just don't want to fly with people who feel that is an appropriate way to treat the people who pay their salaries.
... oh - and, of course, the people who fly on my budget.
... and friends, of course - don't lets forget them.
Cabin crew who voted for a christmas strike don't deserve my ticket money.
Lafite
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Talked to the Executive Club
After been on hold for a half-hour, I got through the the Executive Club. I had resolved to be as nice as possible to whomever answered because they obviously would not be having a good day. I'm travelling on redemption tickets which are 'flexible'
Got a fairly stressed out young lady and asked her about my return flight from Los Angeles on the 2nd. (I had already tried on-line to change it but the first flight available was 19 January). She said they had no information and could not say if it would operate or not. She couldn't say when she would have more information and hinted that they really didn't know what was going to happen. She couldn't find seats before 19 January and suggested I was better off holding on to what I had 'for the moment'.
So, were booked out on the 21st, but if our return doesn't look any better than that I'm going to cancel the whole trip.
I seriously doubt BA can survive 30M pounds a day for 12 days, meaning that we're stuck in LA having to find a flight back (the cheapest I've been able to find was about $2000 each on Air New Zealand). I'll probably lose the price of a couple of internal flights and I expect I'm going to lose my Taxes, Fees and Charges for my mileage tickets.
Now what would you do? Take the risk that the strike won't happen, or if it does that BA can survive?
I was nice to the young lady, but I am furious at both BA and the CC for letting it get this far. Frankly I don't care whose fault it is. For the future - ABBA Anything But British Airways.
Got a fairly stressed out young lady and asked her about my return flight from Los Angeles on the 2nd. (I had already tried on-line to change it but the first flight available was 19 January). She said they had no information and could not say if it would operate or not. She couldn't say when she would have more information and hinted that they really didn't know what was going to happen. She couldn't find seats before 19 January and suggested I was better off holding on to what I had 'for the moment'.
So, were booked out on the 21st, but if our return doesn't look any better than that I'm going to cancel the whole trip.
I seriously doubt BA can survive 30M pounds a day for 12 days, meaning that we're stuck in LA having to find a flight back (the cheapest I've been able to find was about $2000 each on Air New Zealand). I'll probably lose the price of a couple of internal flights and I expect I'm going to lose my Taxes, Fees and Charges for my mileage tickets.
Now what would you do? Take the risk that the strike won't happen, or if it does that BA can survive?
I was nice to the young lady, but I am furious at both BA and the CC for letting it get this far. Frankly I don't care whose fault it is. For the future - ABBA Anything But British Airways.
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This is so short sighted it is beyond belief. I believe in collective representation, however this is holding a fledging company by the balls during a make or brake time of year. The consequences of announcing this action and indeed the depth and severety of the action must already be felt. If BA are losing an average of £1.6m a day, it will be a lot more than that soon due to an increased loss in forward bookings and cancelations. You may be lucky to have a job to return to if this goes ahead. Unreal!
I have avoided BA since 2005 after an atrocious business class experience on my honeymoon. All caused by two dinasours who had probably been hanging around BA since it was a public company. I reported both of them for the level of what I described as 'contempt' directed towards my wife and I. Probably the same pair of bolloxes that couldn't give two sh1ts if the airline is going down the tubes. As long as their vastly over inflated salaries are protected, thats all that matters here.
I hope the public gives absolutely no support to this industrial action. It disgusts me.
I have avoided BA since 2005 after an atrocious business class experience on my honeymoon. All caused by two dinasours who had probably been hanging around BA since it was a public company. I reported both of them for the level of what I described as 'contempt' directed towards my wife and I. Probably the same pair of bolloxes that couldn't give two sh1ts if the airline is going down the tubes. As long as their vastly over inflated salaries are protected, thats all that matters here.
I hope the public gives absolutely no support to this industrial action. It disgusts me.