What to do with BA miles as I wont fly with them again!
Thread Starter
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: London
Posts: 75
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
What to do with BA miles as I wont fly with them again!
I was wondering what I can do with a not unsubstantial quantity of air miles I have accumulated with BA that I do not want.
I had intended to make some lovely holidays with them but have been treated so badly by BA recently that I will never step foot on one of their aircraft or part with another penny of my money again for their coffers.
Any suggestions?
I had intended to make some lovely holidays with them but have been treated so badly by BA recently that I will never step foot on one of their aircraft or part with another penny of my money again for their coffers.
Any suggestions?
Thread Starter
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: London
Posts: 75
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
It seems they are only useful to use for flights, I have always used them for F upgrades in the past, but anything that gives BA any revenue in the future frankly churns my stomach!
It is nothing too substantial, they have done things to irritate me over the years but recently I asked them to change a date on a flight because of a very valid reason and they refused to do it saying I would have to purchase another ticket and forego this one, bearing in mind it was a Sydney Club fare so not a cheap ticket ( second one this month too!).
Although I appreciate a non changeable fare is just that and they are within their rights, I feel that after spending in excess of 60K with them on fares in the past 3 years a little flexibility when ones Father has been given days to live was not too much to ask for! Apparently it is.. No more money for BA from me.
Nice seat number btw
It is nothing too substantial, they have done things to irritate me over the years but recently I asked them to change a date on a flight because of a very valid reason and they refused to do it saying I would have to purchase another ticket and forego this one, bearing in mind it was a Sydney Club fare so not a cheap ticket ( second one this month too!).
Although I appreciate a non changeable fare is just that and they are within their rights, I feel that after spending in excess of 60K with them on fares in the past 3 years a little flexibility when ones Father has been given days to live was not too much to ask for! Apparently it is.. No more money for BA from me.
Nice seat number btw
Join Date: Feb 2001
Location: In transit
Age: 70
Posts: 3,052
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I believe you can donate them to charity. Try this Donate Airmiles - LoveToKnow Charity or similar.
I feel the same about BA after they treated us with total contempt some years ago and compounded the situation by lying about what had actually happened when the dispute was escalated. I also had a lot of IB miles, and that's another airline I hope never to set foot on again. I was able to use my IB miles to send my mother in law on holiday!
I feel the same about BA after they treated us with total contempt some years ago and compounded the situation by lying about what had actually happened when the dispute was escalated. I also had a lot of IB miles, and that's another airline I hope never to set foot on again. I was able to use my IB miles to send my mother in law on holiday!
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: swindon
Age: 44
Posts: 87
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I've just spent some BA miles on AA getting to and around the US.
Additionally miles in general usually go a lot further once inside the US as there is no silly tax to pay!
Smala01
Additionally miles in general usually go a lot further once inside the US as there is no silly tax to pay!
Smala01
Warning Toxic!
Disgusted of Tunbridge
Disgusted of Tunbridge
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Hampshire, UK
Posts: 4,011
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Ah! So you believe because you bought some other tickets, you don't feel the ticket change regulations should apply to you? I see! It's OK it applies to everybody else, but not you, and that is your definition of being 'treated so badly'?
As an outsider, one thinks maybe BA is better off not having such a customer! Try that little one elsewhere and see how far you get!
As an outsider, one thinks maybe BA is better off not having such a customer! Try that little one elsewhere and see how far you get!
Paid...Persona Grata
Well, I bought the cheapest tickets I could get on Emirates, thought they were non-changeable, non-refundable etc. Fell ill in Oz and was medically unfit to fly back, rang Emirates, one free change of date (for both of us) and I was advised to keep the booking open until I was certain I could fly back as there was a (relatively small) charge if I wanted to change it again.
Don't see why other airlines don't do the same.
UFO
Don't see why other airlines don't do the same.
UFO
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Geneva
Posts: 188
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
one thinks maybe BA is better off not having such a customer
Profot will be snapped up by CX (you can use your points on them, much better than QF in my experience), SQ, EK and others plying the Kangaroo Route. BA can ponder their empty Club World cabins, plummeting revenue, and wonder why.
And this is only one of several recent threads about BA customer relations decisions that defy any rational commercial explanation. What is going on?
Join Date: May 2005
Location: UK
Posts: 193
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I think you have to be pragmatic here and not do anything that might appear to be cutting your nose off to spite your face. If you refused to fly on an airline because they treated you with contempt then you would be going everywhere by train. You have paid for those miles and not 'spending' them on BA services instead of using hard cash is exactly what BA want you to do.
We are not great fans of BA at all, but we have >500k miles in our household account, and they are worth money. So we have started using them for late bookings within Europe. Even with their deceptive fuel surcharge they are now almost competitive with the Locos on last minute flights.
You can also put them in a household account so family members can use them if you don't want to. Or just use them to buy tickets for other people.
I certainly wouldn't throw them away.
We are not great fans of BA at all, but we have >500k miles in our household account, and they are worth money. So we have started using them for late bookings within Europe. Even with their deceptive fuel surcharge they are now almost competitive with the Locos on last minute flights.
You can also put them in a household account so family members can use them if you don't want to. Or just use them to buy tickets for other people.
I certainly wouldn't throw them away.
Thread Starter
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: London
Posts: 75
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Rainboe
I did mention that I understand they were well within their rights, I just thought that perhaps a good customer who has exceptional circumstances in the form of a dying father might show a little leeway on one occasion.
Perhaps I am wrong.
I did mention that I understand they were well within their rights, I just thought that perhaps a good customer who has exceptional circumstances in the form of a dying father might show a little leeway on one occasion.
Perhaps I am wrong.
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Sussex,UK
Posts: 469
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
profot,
I am in no way doubting you when you say that your father was extremely ill, but the number of times that airlines are told such things has to be heard to be believed.
Take the situation that I had a while back, when the aircraft went tech. Another one of our A/C was due to leave for LHR in the 40 minutes or so and it had approximately 30 spare seats. One of the ground staff was heard to mention this by a passenger at the front, while we were trying to get as many passengers sorted as we could. It spread through the aircraft like wildfire and suddenly, it seemed that virtually every passenger onboard was going to a funeral/wedding/sick relative etc. I find it hard to believe that all those people were in fact, telling the truth.
In thread recently, someone mentioned that we should show more leeway, initiative and common sense. I personally, would love to, but experience has shown me that all three have a habit of coming back and biting you in the rear. Give an inch and many will insist on taking a mile.
I know this doesn't help you now, but hopefully, it may go some way to you understanding why such a stance may have been taken. It seems that you may have paid for the past behaviour of many selfish people. Fair? No. But then again, life never was fair.
UniFoxOs,
If you had been declared medically unfit to fly, along with all the relevant documentation, then that is a completely different scenario and I would have thought that most airlines would not charge to change the date of travel under those circumstances. No doubt, I will now be deluged by posts from all those that can't wait to prove me wrong!
I am in no way doubting you when you say that your father was extremely ill, but the number of times that airlines are told such things has to be heard to be believed.
Take the situation that I had a while back, when the aircraft went tech. Another one of our A/C was due to leave for LHR in the 40 minutes or so and it had approximately 30 spare seats. One of the ground staff was heard to mention this by a passenger at the front, while we were trying to get as many passengers sorted as we could. It spread through the aircraft like wildfire and suddenly, it seemed that virtually every passenger onboard was going to a funeral/wedding/sick relative etc. I find it hard to believe that all those people were in fact, telling the truth.
In thread recently, someone mentioned that we should show more leeway, initiative and common sense. I personally, would love to, but experience has shown me that all three have a habit of coming back and biting you in the rear. Give an inch and many will insist on taking a mile.
I know this doesn't help you now, but hopefully, it may go some way to you understanding why such a stance may have been taken. It seems that you may have paid for the past behaviour of many selfish people. Fair? No. But then again, life never was fair.
UniFoxOs,
If you had been declared medically unfit to fly, along with all the relevant documentation, then that is a completely different scenario and I would have thought that most airlines would not charge to change the date of travel under those circumstances. No doubt, I will now be deluged by posts from all those that can't wait to prove me wrong!
Jetsetlady,
The sensible thing to do, before saying 'No', is to look at the customer's profile. Has he/she flown a lot? Have they spent lots of dosh on Business/First recently? If you see a 'Yes', the start kicking in flexibility, even if it means bending the rules. Especially in today's climate, where you REALLY don't want to lose Business or First Class PAX to other airlines just because you followed the rules.
I had the situation last year where the last flight from Nice was cancelled. (and I'm on a 'No changes' 'D' class ticket). BA found me a hotel room, but on getting to the gate for the next morning's flight, my Club Europe aisle seat had turned into a Euro Traveller window seat - and there was no room in Club Europe all of a sudden. In spite of 5 years of holding a Gold Card. We did a deal where I took the next flight in Club Europe in 1D (which I was originally in) and BA paid for all the 'phone calls. And I got £50. But if I'd had an onwards flight to catch, it would have been my last flight on BA. Plus a compensation claim.
So flexibility is even more important today, As they say on American ' We know you have a choice when it comes to air travel'. P*ss off the customers and they (and the airline) will be gone tomorrow - like PanAm and Empire Airlines and BCal......(which last I don't miss at all!)
The sensible thing to do, before saying 'No', is to look at the customer's profile. Has he/she flown a lot? Have they spent lots of dosh on Business/First recently? If you see a 'Yes', the start kicking in flexibility, even if it means bending the rules. Especially in today's climate, where you REALLY don't want to lose Business or First Class PAX to other airlines just because you followed the rules.
I had the situation last year where the last flight from Nice was cancelled. (and I'm on a 'No changes' 'D' class ticket). BA found me a hotel room, but on getting to the gate for the next morning's flight, my Club Europe aisle seat had turned into a Euro Traveller window seat - and there was no room in Club Europe all of a sudden. In spite of 5 years of holding a Gold Card. We did a deal where I took the next flight in Club Europe in 1D (which I was originally in) and BA paid for all the 'phone calls. And I got £50. But if I'd had an onwards flight to catch, it would have been my last flight on BA. Plus a compensation claim.
So flexibility is even more important today, As they say on American ' We know you have a choice when it comes to air travel'. P*ss off the customers and they (and the airline) will be gone tomorrow - like PanAm and Empire Airlines and BCal......(which last I don't miss at all!)
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Sussex,UK
Posts: 469
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
radeng,
And maybe flexibility would be more likely if people didn't take the proverbial quite so regularly! Take buggies on board as a pefect example. Technically, they are supposed to be in the hold. We don't often have room for them on shorthaul aircraft, but in the past, if we had a light load, I'd try to be helpful by accepting them on whilst reiterating that it was only because the aircraft was half empty. Most of my colleagues would do the same. Then it slowly dawned on me that I was spending more and more time arguing with parents who were still determined to bring their ridiculously oversized buggies onboard, despite it being obvious that the aircraft was full to overflowing. And their reasoning was always, "Well they let us on our last flight!" It seems I wasn't the only one, so guess what. Now we have a blanket ban. As usual, the idiots have ruined it for all.
Do you get what I'm trying to say here? Yes, profot was in an awful situation. One that I wouldn't wish upon anyone. And yes, he was obviously someone who had spent a lot of money with us. And yes, in an ideal world, his past history would have been looked at and the appropriate decision made. But repeated abuse of the system means that the ability to be flexible has now been taken from us.
As for your situation, I can't see what else BA could have done. They put you up in a hotel and, when there was no Club seat available for you on the flight out, probably because they were now trying to accomodate two passenger loads on one aircraft, they offered you either direct travel out in Euro Traveller or a Club seat on the next available flight. If you had have been connecting and needed to take the first flight, you would have been compensated for the fact that you had not got the Club seat you had paid for, as you would have been if your connection had been on the day of the original flight. That is standard. What more would you have expected them to do? Yes, the original flight was cancelled which was a pain for all involved, but I'm sorry, things go wrong in aviation, just as they do any other form of transport. We're not miracle workers and there's only so much we can do!
And maybe flexibility would be more likely if people didn't take the proverbial quite so regularly! Take buggies on board as a pefect example. Technically, they are supposed to be in the hold. We don't often have room for them on shorthaul aircraft, but in the past, if we had a light load, I'd try to be helpful by accepting them on whilst reiterating that it was only because the aircraft was half empty. Most of my colleagues would do the same. Then it slowly dawned on me that I was spending more and more time arguing with parents who were still determined to bring their ridiculously oversized buggies onboard, despite it being obvious that the aircraft was full to overflowing. And their reasoning was always, "Well they let us on our last flight!" It seems I wasn't the only one, so guess what. Now we have a blanket ban. As usual, the idiots have ruined it for all.
Do you get what I'm trying to say here? Yes, profot was in an awful situation. One that I wouldn't wish upon anyone. And yes, he was obviously someone who had spent a lot of money with us. And yes, in an ideal world, his past history would have been looked at and the appropriate decision made. But repeated abuse of the system means that the ability to be flexible has now been taken from us.
As for your situation, I can't see what else BA could have done. They put you up in a hotel and, when there was no Club seat available for you on the flight out, probably because they were now trying to accomodate two passenger loads on one aircraft, they offered you either direct travel out in Euro Traveller or a Club seat on the next available flight. If you had have been connecting and needed to take the first flight, you would have been compensated for the fact that you had not got the Club seat you had paid for, as you would have been if your connection had been on the day of the original flight. That is standard. What more would you have expected them to do? Yes, the original flight was cancelled which was a pain for all involved, but I'm sorry, things go wrong in aviation, just as they do any other form of transport. We're not miracle workers and there's only so much we can do!
Last edited by jetset lady; 15th Jul 2009 at 22:01. Reason: lack of proof reading!
Thread Starter
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: London
Posts: 75
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Jetset Lady, I can only imagine how frustrating it must be and I know customers continually take the p**s and want everything for nothing but in this case they were not even remotely interested.
I am not sure of the exact words but it went along the lines of is he actually dead yet? No? then in that case we cant help you you will have to purchase another ticket but try to look at it that you only paid GBP3k for this one so if you buy another one it will only seem like paying a little over a fully flexible fare!
I could have very easily emailed or posted them a copy of the surgeons prognosis for my Father and actually rather than trying to get a refund I thought the cheapest option for BA would be to give me a different date later in the year allowing them to re sell my ticket, I did this out of concern for them losing revenue in these tough times.
I know that everyone is at a scam, and i know that if I wanted to be able to change my ticket at will then I should have bought the fully flexible fare but these were exceptional circumstances and I just thought perhaps a little customer loyalty would have meant something, I do not expect anything above anyone else as Rainboe so abruptly suggested, I would like to think BA would have helped anyone else out too!
Anyway, I didn't really come on here to slag BA off, I was just trying to find a way to get rid of my miles.
Thanks for your input
I am not sure of the exact words but it went along the lines of is he actually dead yet? No? then in that case we cant help you you will have to purchase another ticket but try to look at it that you only paid GBP3k for this one so if you buy another one it will only seem like paying a little over a fully flexible fare!
I could have very easily emailed or posted them a copy of the surgeons prognosis for my Father and actually rather than trying to get a refund I thought the cheapest option for BA would be to give me a different date later in the year allowing them to re sell my ticket, I did this out of concern for them losing revenue in these tough times.
I know that everyone is at a scam, and i know that if I wanted to be able to change my ticket at will then I should have bought the fully flexible fare but these were exceptional circumstances and I just thought perhaps a little customer loyalty would have meant something, I do not expect anything above anyone else as Rainboe so abruptly suggested, I would like to think BA would have helped anyone else out too!
Anyway, I didn't really come on here to slag BA off, I was just trying to find a way to get rid of my miles.
Thanks for your input
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Sussex,UK
Posts: 469
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Originally Posted by profot
....I am not sure of the exact words but it went along the lines of is he actually dead yet? No? then in that case we cant help you you will have to purchase another ticket but try to look at it that you only paid GBP3k for this one so if you buy another one it will only seem like paying a little over a fully flexible fare!...
You have me there. I admit to being BA crew and being the loyal type, I will try to defend the company wherever I feel it's justified, but the above is pretty hard to defend. Those questions were insensitive in the extreme and I can only say I'm sorry. Too late, I know.
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Geneva
Posts: 188
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Jetset Lady, you raise some good points and your tales of woe I think well illustrate the pitfalls involved in exercising discretion that may have led the industry to steadily withdraw discretionary authority (the story of the passengers who all suddenly remembered they were travelling to weddings, funerals and dying relatives really made me chuckle - I can just picture the scene...).
But it's important to remember that "discretion" here means (or should mean) discretion to make an on-the-spot decision in the best interests of the airline - which will not always be the same as the best interests of an individual customer. In other words, if some customers must be made unhappy, you should have the discretion to choose the ones whose unhappiness will cost the airline the least. This is a different calculation to deciding who will be most unhappy, or trying to judge the respective merits of competing sob stories.
And this is why profot's story, and the similar tales in other threads, puzzle me. They just make no sense, even when judged from the most hard-nosed mercenary perspective.
Let's take a closer look at this, going right back to basics. The purpose of an airline is to make a profit. The purpose of an airline's terms and conditions is to help it make a profit. They have no other purpose. If a situation should arise where rigid adherence to the terms and conditions will cost an airline more than making an exception to them, what is the point of not making the exception? Adhering to the terms and conditions is not an end in itself.
Now, looking at profot's case, we have:
1. A regular business-class passenger, who has racked up GBP 60,000 worth of travel in the past few months, who regularly travels on a long-haul route that is also served by many other airlines, several of which offer levels of comfort and service equal to or better than BA, at similar prices.
2. A request from this passenger essentially for a favour: to change a non-changeable ticket, valued at about GBP 3000. He has no history of asking for similar things, or otherwise being difficult or demanding.
Putting aside the reason for asking for the favour, and the associated compassionate considerations, here is the calculation:
1. If BA sticks to its guns and insists that the passenger buy another ticket, what are the chances that he will buy it from BA? Answer: zero. So no extra sale.
2. BA keeps the original GBP 3000, and has a chance (but no guarantee) of re-selling the seat. Possible gain here: between 0 and, say, GBP 6000.
3. Original passenger is annoyed and disappointed, and makes the not-very-painful decision to fly CX, SQ, EK, EY, etc, in future. Based on his past travel pattern, BA can expect to lose something in the vicinity of GBP 30000 per year.
Do the sums! Does it make the slightest sense? What do BA staff who are being asked to work for free or take unpaid leave think of business decisions like this?
But it's important to remember that "discretion" here means (or should mean) discretion to make an on-the-spot decision in the best interests of the airline - which will not always be the same as the best interests of an individual customer. In other words, if some customers must be made unhappy, you should have the discretion to choose the ones whose unhappiness will cost the airline the least. This is a different calculation to deciding who will be most unhappy, or trying to judge the respective merits of competing sob stories.
And this is why profot's story, and the similar tales in other threads, puzzle me. They just make no sense, even when judged from the most hard-nosed mercenary perspective.
Let's take a closer look at this, going right back to basics. The purpose of an airline is to make a profit. The purpose of an airline's terms and conditions is to help it make a profit. They have no other purpose. If a situation should arise where rigid adherence to the terms and conditions will cost an airline more than making an exception to them, what is the point of not making the exception? Adhering to the terms and conditions is not an end in itself.
Now, looking at profot's case, we have:
1. A regular business-class passenger, who has racked up GBP 60,000 worth of travel in the past few months, who regularly travels on a long-haul route that is also served by many other airlines, several of which offer levels of comfort and service equal to or better than BA, at similar prices.
2. A request from this passenger essentially for a favour: to change a non-changeable ticket, valued at about GBP 3000. He has no history of asking for similar things, or otherwise being difficult or demanding.
Putting aside the reason for asking for the favour, and the associated compassionate considerations, here is the calculation:
1. If BA sticks to its guns and insists that the passenger buy another ticket, what are the chances that he will buy it from BA? Answer: zero. So no extra sale.
2. BA keeps the original GBP 3000, and has a chance (but no guarantee) of re-selling the seat. Possible gain here: between 0 and, say, GBP 6000.
3. Original passenger is annoyed and disappointed, and makes the not-very-painful decision to fly CX, SQ, EK, EY, etc, in future. Based on his past travel pattern, BA can expect to lose something in the vicinity of GBP 30000 per year.
Do the sums! Does it make the slightest sense? What do BA staff who are being asked to work for free or take unpaid leave think of business decisions like this?
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: FL450
Posts: 5
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
"The answer is no, now what's the question?"
That is the disease running through so called UK customer services.
Get out of the UK and see how others deal with PR problems. It doesn't always work but at least someone will use initiative and try to find a way.
No-one cares in England anymore. It is a terrible state of affairs and just adds to the woes of the state of the country's finances and makes it the most frustrating place to live in the world! 'Glad I no longer do.
That is the disease running through so called UK customer services.
Get out of the UK and see how others deal with PR problems. It doesn't always work but at least someone will use initiative and try to find a way.
No-one cares in England anymore. It is a terrible state of affairs and just adds to the woes of the state of the country's finances and makes it the most frustrating place to live in the world! 'Glad I no longer do.