Made to go through the AMD with a pacemaker
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Not wishing to belittle the gentleman's suffering or to dispute the security staff should be aware of the consequences but just how was he 'forced' or 'made' to go through the scanner?
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SallyAnn - Oh I agree he should complain and should recieve some kind of compensation but if the company deny any wrong doing or liability I would be wary about spending a lot of time and money on it unless there is evidence of the link. Report from the hospital?
Dollydaydream - He is 79. He's got a flight to catch, he's probably been told it's ok and he's holding up a queue. Not hard to imagine what might have happend.
Dollydaydream - He is 79. He's got a flight to catch, he's probably been told it's ok and he's holding up a queue. Not hard to imagine what might have happend.
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I would have thought that any reasonable security officer, when confronted by a 79 year old who believes that they have a pacemaker fitted, would give them a hand search instead of the arch.
Even if the person is confused and what they are saying is incorrect, its hardly going to occur every five minutes is it?
The UK seems to treat older people with a lack of respect and courtesy.
Even if the person is confused and what they are saying is incorrect, its hardly going to occur every five minutes is it?
The UK seems to treat older people with a lack of respect and courtesy.
There is anecdotal evidence about problems with pacemakers and electric trains in Belgium and Sweden: the electrification in these countries is at 16-2/3Hz, and thyristor controlled trains running slowly produce quite intense magnetic field bursts. These frequencies are low enough to get picked up on the leads and get into the sensing circuitry. However, my contacts in the pacemaker manufacturers have not yet found any solid evidence.
Shows the advantage of steam.....
Shows the advantage of steam.....
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Ignoring what hcould have happened and the technicalities of pacemakers it must have been clear that the pacemaker was affected by the AMD, so as a result,,
Sue the Ba
ds for as much as you can get!!!!!! 
Sue the Ba
ds for as much as you can get!!!!!!
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cwatters
I am aware he is 79 and am presuming he is in a fair state of health both physically and mentally, I am also presuming he is not travelling alone.
He and his family will have been issued with information regarding his pacemaker i.e. type, things to avoid, things to watch out for etc so I find it hard to believe that even the most hardened security folks would 'force' him through the arch. I would have though a firm NO and I want to speak to a supervisor would do it.
I agree elderly people are not always treated with respect but I do think people - of all ages - have to take some responsibility for themselves.
And just for the record I am in no way condoning the actions of security who allowed him to go through.
He and his family will have been issued with information regarding his pacemaker i.e. type, things to avoid, things to watch out for etc so I find it hard to believe that even the most hardened security folks would 'force' him through the arch. I would have though a firm NO and I want to speak to a supervisor would do it.
I agree elderly people are not always treated with respect but I do think people - of all ages - have to take some responsibility for themselves.
And just for the record I am in no way condoning the actions of security who allowed him to go through.
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And just for the record I am in no way condoning the actions of security who allowed him to go through.
A lot of us on here will not take BS from security staff, but that's because we're familiar with the process. I imagine the overwhelming majority of the general public will trust (for want of a better word) that those in security have both the knowledge and authority necessary to do their jobs. Or be cowed into accepting a procedure even though it doesn't feel right to them. And if one is 79, then...
Give him a break; place the blame where it belongs
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I am not in the business of 'placing blame' - I, and I suspect the majority of posters on this thread, do not know exactly what happened. I am merely suggesting that people take on some responsibility for things that happen to them rather than being ever ready to 'place the blame'
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I am merely suggesting that people take on some responsibility for things that happen to them rather than being ever ready to 'place the blame'
But then again, one of the reasons I emigrated from the guano deposit known as the UK was because of such brutish behaviour, which is now apparently a societal norm.
I notice about another million Brits did the same thing, maybe there is a message in their somewhere.
Dollydaydream, you should be ashamed of your comments.
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I am not ashamed of any comment I have made - I have not said he was not entitled to courteous, careful treatment. Whether someone is 79, 109 or 9 I believe in treating them how I would wish to be treated myself. You will have to take my word for it but I am one of the most polite, courteous and caring people you would wish to meet. I also have an extensive background within the NHS dealing with both the elderly and pacemakers!!
My original post was intended to raise the question of who had 'forced' this gentleman to go through the detector. I think it was a strong phrase to use and I stand by what I said.
And ....final greens.... just out of interest my father and grandfather who lived to the ages of 91 and 98 respectively would have been deeply offended to have been described as 'vulnerable' at the age of 79!!
Brutish behaviour may well be 'a social norm' as you put it but I don't think it is confined to age and I don't recall the original poster describing anyone's actions as such.
My original post was intended to raise the question of who had 'forced' this gentleman to go through the detector. I think it was a strong phrase to use and I stand by what I said.
And ....final greens.... just out of interest my father and grandfather who lived to the ages of 91 and 98 respectively would have been deeply offended to have been described as 'vulnerable' at the age of 79!!
Brutish behaviour may well be 'a social norm' as you put it but I don't think it is confined to age and I don't recall the original poster describing anyone's actions as such.
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A point to bear in mind is that whilst a lot of the youth of today (and a lot of middle aged people) have little or no respect for the police or other people in uniform, the same isn't generally true of the "older generation".
This gentleman of 79 may well have believed that he had no option but to do as instructed, especially if the "security" staff were in uniform, and it might not even of crossed his mind that he could object or refuse their commands.
This gentleman of 79 may well have believed that he had no option but to do as instructed, especially if the "security" staff were in uniform, and it might not even of crossed his mind that he could object or refuse their commands.
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The last thing I wanted was for this to cause arguments... and to clarify he was travelling alone. The one good thing about the whole situation was the helpfulness and duty of care provided by palmair when he was rushed to hospital. No wonder they were recently voted as one of the top airlines
EagleStar
EagleStar
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Surely this is a matter for the police and, dare I say it, Health and Safety.
If someone's life has been put at risk by faulty/ignored procedures then simply discussing it on a web site doesn't cut the mustard.
If someone's life has been put at risk by faulty/ignored procedures then simply discussing it on a web site doesn't cut the mustard.
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Yes, I agree and certainly wouldn't want anyone else to be made to go through the same situation. Unfortunately though the gentleman in question is very forgetfull and we are still trying to get hold of all the facts. He is easily confused and we need to ensure that we have an account of exactly what happened before it can be taken any further.
Once again I would like to thank all of you for your advice and opinions on this and I will let you know what happens
EagleStar
Once again I would like to thank all of you for your advice and opinions on this and I will let you know what happens
EagleStar
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I will no doubt have accusations hurled at me again but if this gentleman is so confused and forgetful how can you be sure what happened and is he safe to be going off on holiday alone - pacemaker or not!
I sincerely hope he is well and has made a full recovery but I stand by all my previous comments.
I sincerely hope he is well and has made a full recovery but I stand by all my previous comments.
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Originally Posted by forget
Surely this is a matter for the police and, dare I say it, Health and Safety.
"Pensioner in Airport Heart Horror".
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Obviously clearer than yours final 3 greens!!
If he is so vulnerable as to be confused as eagle star now mentions then I question his capability to travel alone.
Should perhaps security launch a counter claim!!!
Tabloid headline......
' Elderley, confused man with pacemaker left to travel alone'
Not me who wants it both ways
If he is so vulnerable as to be confused as eagle star now mentions then I question his capability to travel alone.
Should perhaps security launch a counter claim!!!
Tabloid headline......
' Elderley, confused man with pacemaker left to travel alone'
Not me who wants it both ways
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Dollydaydream
Many older people are not as sharp as they were in their younger days.
That does not make them unfit to travel.
I had the privilege og assisting an octegenerian a couple of months ago, in navigating an airport she was unfamiliar with.
I find your attitude reprehensible.
Eagle Star, I second Sally Ann's comment earlier in the thread and believe that you should take appropriate action to reduce the risk of this happening to anyone else.
Many older people are not as sharp as they were in their younger days.
That does not make them unfit to travel.
I had the privilege og assisting an octegenerian a couple of months ago, in navigating an airport she was unfamiliar with.
I find your attitude reprehensible.
Eagle Star, I second Sally Ann's comment earlier in the thread and believe that you should take appropriate action to reduce the risk of this happening to anyone else.
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This must be getting rather boring to others now but I must ask ...
.............what exactly is it that you find so reprehensible about my attitude?
I have given my opinion based on the facts that have been posted ....
i.e. that a 79 year old gentleman, forgetful and prone to confusion appears to have been travelling alone and become ill after seemingly passing through the metal detector causing his pacemaker to malfunction.
Now, in my opinion he is either mentally fit enough to travel unaided and comprehend the contra-indications of the AMD as regards his, presumably, on demand pacemaker and therefore perfectly able to inform security that he is NOT able to pass through and if necessary, would like to speak to a supervisor - there are always plenty about.
The alternative appears to be that he shouldn't be travelling alone. We are informed that he was 'made' to go through, how do we know? We are informed he is forgetful and confused, maybe he forgot he had a pacemaker, maybe he forgot he should steer clear....we may never know!
But, final 3 greens, I agree we should help our fellow man, offer the elderly assistance, intervene when trouble starts but maybe some people are afraid to do that for fear of ending up as a tabloid headline or in court!
I know what I would have done in that situation and my conscience is perfectly clear regardless of how you wish to insult me.
.............what exactly is it that you find so reprehensible about my attitude?
I have given my opinion based on the facts that have been posted ....
i.e. that a 79 year old gentleman, forgetful and prone to confusion appears to have been travelling alone and become ill after seemingly passing through the metal detector causing his pacemaker to malfunction.
Now, in my opinion he is either mentally fit enough to travel unaided and comprehend the contra-indications of the AMD as regards his, presumably, on demand pacemaker and therefore perfectly able to inform security that he is NOT able to pass through and if necessary, would like to speak to a supervisor - there are always plenty about.
The alternative appears to be that he shouldn't be travelling alone. We are informed that he was 'made' to go through, how do we know? We are informed he is forgetful and confused, maybe he forgot he had a pacemaker, maybe he forgot he should steer clear....we may never know!
But, final 3 greens, I agree we should help our fellow man, offer the elderly assistance, intervene when trouble starts but maybe some people are afraid to do that for fear of ending up as a tabloid headline or in court!
I know what I would have done in that situation and my conscience is perfectly clear regardless of how you wish to insult me.