Obese passenger wins case
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I flew a couple of domestic sectors with Egypt Air once. They had free seating, and on the first sector, I quickly realised that my 6 foot 3 inch frame simply could not fit into their standard pitch, which was probably 28" but seemed even shorter. So on the second sector, my wife and I made an undisguised, elbows to the fore run to be first on board and get the emergency exit seats, which had marginally more legroom.
A flight attendant stood in front of the third seat beside me as the rest of the pax boarded and then gave it up to an American tourist who was, without exaggeration, at least 450 lbs. I was left sitting at an angle of 45 degrees, as much in the seat space my wife was occuppying as in my own.
I called the FA and said the pax beside me would not fit through the emergency exit, so if we had a problem, no one would get out through that exit except my wife and I, who were the only ones closer to the exit than the American. Her answer was logical in the extreme. "He will not fit in any other seat." End of argument.
I spent a very uncomfortable 40 minutes watching my travelling companion eat non stop the whole time, taking four of everything on offer from the FA as well as dipping repeatedly into his rucksack betwen complaining about how hot the aircraft was.
Courts need to face the fact that modern airliners are made to fit ONLY the 95 percentile human being, and if someone from the other 5 percentile is unable to fit into the space they have purchased without intruding into the space some other hapless traveller has purchased, they need to face facts and pay for the space they NEED. Some might say I should pay extra myself, as I fit into that "other" 5 percentile myself, but not to the point where I intrude into the space of other passengers, except for my knees sticking into their backs when I am unable to have them out in the aisle.
End of rant.
A flight attendant stood in front of the third seat beside me as the rest of the pax boarded and then gave it up to an American tourist who was, without exaggeration, at least 450 lbs. I was left sitting at an angle of 45 degrees, as much in the seat space my wife was occuppying as in my own.
I called the FA and said the pax beside me would not fit through the emergency exit, so if we had a problem, no one would get out through that exit except my wife and I, who were the only ones closer to the exit than the American. Her answer was logical in the extreme. "He will not fit in any other seat." End of argument.
I spent a very uncomfortable 40 minutes watching my travelling companion eat non stop the whole time, taking four of everything on offer from the FA as well as dipping repeatedly into his rucksack betwen complaining about how hot the aircraft was.
Courts need to face the fact that modern airliners are made to fit ONLY the 95 percentile human being, and if someone from the other 5 percentile is unable to fit into the space they have purchased without intruding into the space some other hapless traveller has purchased, they need to face facts and pay for the space they NEED. Some might say I should pay extra myself, as I fit into that "other" 5 percentile myself, but not to the point where I intrude into the space of other passengers, except for my knees sticking into their backs when I am unable to have them out in the aisle.
End of rant.
Join Date: Oct 2006
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Andrew,
YOU are responsible for your condition. All your 'problems' are secondary effects of obesity.
And, like most other obese people, you always have an excuse.
Do not expect others to subsidise you and your habits.
And eat less
And exercise more ...oh, sorry, of course you can't because you're too fat...
And stop whining
BTW, Medically speaking, 'metabolic syndrome' is just another bull**** excuse. The 'doctors' (note non-capitalisation) who peddle it are fringe entrepreneurs who are the scorn of the profession. And I know because I am proper Doctor who spends his energies treating people with problems they have not brought upon themselves - it drives me to distraction just how much of the health dollar is spent on obesity, smoking, and other 100% preventable issues, if not for peoples' self-indulgence.
So enough of the 'poor fat me' crap.....ever see anyone obese in photos from the WW2 camps? - no, thought not. See, they had very little food and were made to work very hard. (Apologies to anyone offended by the reference - not intended, but it is a very good example).
YOU are responsible for your condition. All your 'problems' are secondary effects of obesity.
And, like most other obese people, you always have an excuse.
Do not expect others to subsidise you and your habits.
And eat less
And exercise more ...oh, sorry, of course you can't because you're too fat...
And stop whining
BTW, Medically speaking, 'metabolic syndrome' is just another bull**** excuse. The 'doctors' (note non-capitalisation) who peddle it are fringe entrepreneurs who are the scorn of the profession. And I know because I am proper Doctor who spends his energies treating people with problems they have not brought upon themselves - it drives me to distraction just how much of the health dollar is spent on obesity, smoking, and other 100% preventable issues, if not for peoples' self-indulgence.
So enough of the 'poor fat me' crap.....ever see anyone obese in photos from the WW2 camps? - no, thought not. See, they had very little food and were made to work very hard. (Apologies to anyone offended by the reference - not intended, but it is a very good example).
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I'm a very big bloke and would be happy to comply with the Southwest offer. Not quite requiring a second seat at the moment (but belt at full stretch and a bit tight widthways), particularly travelling with the wife and kids. If I had to fly solo, I wouldn't like to be the person sitting next to me. It's also true that widebodies (no pun intended) seem to have wider seats. After putting off flying with Jet* for ages for fear of being crammed in, I was pleasantly surprised, better fit than QF or VB's 73's - seemed that way anyway.
Hbr, you might be a little bloke, but that certainly hasn't stopped you from being a rude, assuming pr1ck. Lucky you're so perfect. Bet you're a Liberal supporter too, huh?
Hbr, you might be a little bloke, but that certainly hasn't stopped you from being a rude, assuming pr1ck. Lucky you're so perfect. Bet you're a Liberal supporter too, huh?
I think we all sympathise those with a GENUINE problem that has been brought upon them without them doing anything to deserve it nor to encourage it and have no recourse/medication/solution available to them inregards to their issue. But at the same time there are a lot of people who have brought these issues upon themselves and then complain when they aren't taken care of.
In cases like VanderAJ i'm sure that when you call to make your booking you make them aware of your wifes need of a wheelchair and as such they can go about doing what needs to be done to accomodate you. The problem is when people just turn up and EXPECT there not to be a problem. They have not considered there to be an issue whatsoever, whether because they simply could not have considered it, don't care, or couldn't be bothered to think of such things, in any case its extra effort for the airlines and extra costs that have to passed onto other passengers. For those who are carrying a little extra weight perhaps informing the person you make the booking with or contacting the airline could simply and effectively curtail anything like this happening in the first place!!
In the end though a lot of these problems come from paxs who think the world revolves around them, personally i've worked as a helo loader and in the restaurant industry (Now training to be a pilot) so i've had to deal with this a lot, obvious issues that we should have been informed of but weren't, someone turning up with a wheelchair for a restaurant booking thinking that it would cause no issue whatsoever... we have to consider how to get them in, where to seat them so as not to cause disruption etc... when they come in as such and EXPECT us to ready for it, it really annoys me. Same with larger passengers on helos, they turn up and for some reason think that their 170kg is going to be of no concern for a helo and then get annoyed when we have to wait for a relatively free helo to take them where they are going, thats not our fault!! If informed before hand in these sorts of cases a lot of annoyances for us and the customer can be avoided altogether.
Think about that next time your a pax booking for a flight or going out somewhere, think before you ring up if there are going to be any extenuating circumstances AND FOR THE LOVE OF GOD TELL THEM!! 9/10 times they are more than happy to try and accomodate you because your a paying customer, but just rock up and expect everything to be perfectly fine when you haven't informed them of some sort of issue and you'd also better expect there to be a lot of hassle involved.
In cases like VanderAJ i'm sure that when you call to make your booking you make them aware of your wifes need of a wheelchair and as such they can go about doing what needs to be done to accomodate you. The problem is when people just turn up and EXPECT there not to be a problem. They have not considered there to be an issue whatsoever, whether because they simply could not have considered it, don't care, or couldn't be bothered to think of such things, in any case its extra effort for the airlines and extra costs that have to passed onto other passengers. For those who are carrying a little extra weight perhaps informing the person you make the booking with or contacting the airline could simply and effectively curtail anything like this happening in the first place!!
In the end though a lot of these problems come from paxs who think the world revolves around them, personally i've worked as a helo loader and in the restaurant industry (Now training to be a pilot) so i've had to deal with this a lot, obvious issues that we should have been informed of but weren't, someone turning up with a wheelchair for a restaurant booking thinking that it would cause no issue whatsoever... we have to consider how to get them in, where to seat them so as not to cause disruption etc... when they come in as such and EXPECT us to ready for it, it really annoys me. Same with larger passengers on helos, they turn up and for some reason think that their 170kg is going to be of no concern for a helo and then get annoyed when we have to wait for a relatively free helo to take them where they are going, thats not our fault!! If informed before hand in these sorts of cases a lot of annoyances for us and the customer can be avoided altogether.
Think about that next time your a pax booking for a flight or going out somewhere, think before you ring up if there are going to be any extenuating circumstances AND FOR THE LOVE OF GOD TELL THEM!! 9/10 times they are more than happy to try and accomodate you because your a paying customer, but just rock up and expect everything to be perfectly fine when you haven't informed them of some sort of issue and you'd also better expect there to be a lot of hassle involved.
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When I travel with my wife, we book her into a disabled seat and make a note when we check her in that she may need assistance. At the airport, we ask for a wheelchair only if she needs it. That one time we waited was an airport logistics problem at the destination - a breakdown of communications somewhere or simply many folks needed a push. Generally, we have no problems travelling with my wife. It was a bit annoying but nothing compared to the rude folks in this thread.
In the end, SLF like me pay for you folks. I am the J class, last minute booker and extreme frequent flyer which underpins this industry. I've never - and I mean NEVER - had so much abuse from folks who fail so completely to understand from which side of the bread is buttered.
Like it or not, you folks are in a service industry. Service industries live or die on the levels of service offered, and that means folks like me feeling welcome and the experience completely unlike that of visiting, say a dentist. My travel so far this year has totalled well over $150k. None of it went to Southwest, even though they are based at BWI (my home airport) and thus would make many of trips shorter and probably a great deal cheaper. Think about that. I am just one PAX. Imagine if your airline became so customer hostile that no one chose to fly with you. That's Southwest for me. Your livelihood really is in our hands.
With 30% of the population being obese today, with the average male height increasing from around 165 cm to nearer 180 cm, you'd think that seats and interior dimensions would have increased over the years to cope with the general population. Instead, seat pitches have narrowed to stack max capacity, 17" widths have stayed the same since the 1950's - see Fokker F-27's for the same 17" width seats you get on any LCC today.
As to one of the posters above who claims to be a doctor, I sort of hope you don't have any patients as your bedside manner truly sucks. Furthermore, you seem to be unaware of the peer reviewed papers describing metabolic syndrome. Metabolic syndrome is an indicator that if you meet the criteria for it, you probably have these other things, too. That diagnosis pointed the way to be checked for diabetes, which found my insulin resistance. I didn't know about that until recently, but knowing about it has allowed me to lose 5.6 kg since starting on a controlled GI diet in just around a month. No other diet - and I've been on many, including Weight Watchers - has helped me lose so much in such a short time. So I pretty much really don't care if you think it's fake or made up syndrome like RLS, as the diagnosis explains why I never lost weight on low fat diets before, why I gain weight more easily than family members eating the exact same food as me, and also helped pin point a potentially deadly issue - diabetes that I didn't know I had. Please don't diagnose folks you have never seen and do not know their medical history. Do not disparage folks like me who are taking their health very seriously, who have been trying without success for nearly 20 years to get my weight under control. I think I have a chance now, and I must give it my best shot.
This thread is a dead end. You're all obviously skinny and perfection in the flesh. One day, you'll be fat. Seriously. If you don't exercise and eat a normal western diet, you'll get fat sooner or later, whether that's an additional few kg or as many as I'm hauling around. I don't see that many rake thin pilots, so I know that you eat as well as I do in hotel rooms around the country. See how you like it when you get plump and people scowl at you for eating a healthy meal in public. See how you like when folks look horrified when you get to your assigned seat. See how you like it when a 50 kg CC bulimic waif tries to measure you in front of all the other PAX as happened to the gentleman on Air France. I'm glad he won, as it means that you can't just humiliate passengers in the same old ways any more. I wait with baited breath to see how the airline industry responds to this, as they wont let this stop them in their quest to make air travel as offensive and hostile as possible.
Have some humility and empathy, and simple human kindness. See it from our eyes - eyes that pay your wages and keep the planes in the air. If you can't, may I suggest call centers. I believe they are looking for the sort of callous disregard of human life that is so obviously on display here.
Andrew
In the end, SLF like me pay for you folks. I am the J class, last minute booker and extreme frequent flyer which underpins this industry. I've never - and I mean NEVER - had so much abuse from folks who fail so completely to understand from which side of the bread is buttered.
Like it or not, you folks are in a service industry. Service industries live or die on the levels of service offered, and that means folks like me feeling welcome and the experience completely unlike that of visiting, say a dentist. My travel so far this year has totalled well over $150k. None of it went to Southwest, even though they are based at BWI (my home airport) and thus would make many of trips shorter and probably a great deal cheaper. Think about that. I am just one PAX. Imagine if your airline became so customer hostile that no one chose to fly with you. That's Southwest for me. Your livelihood really is in our hands.
With 30% of the population being obese today, with the average male height increasing from around 165 cm to nearer 180 cm, you'd think that seats and interior dimensions would have increased over the years to cope with the general population. Instead, seat pitches have narrowed to stack max capacity, 17" widths have stayed the same since the 1950's - see Fokker F-27's for the same 17" width seats you get on any LCC today.
As to one of the posters above who claims to be a doctor, I sort of hope you don't have any patients as your bedside manner truly sucks. Furthermore, you seem to be unaware of the peer reviewed papers describing metabolic syndrome. Metabolic syndrome is an indicator that if you meet the criteria for it, you probably have these other things, too. That diagnosis pointed the way to be checked for diabetes, which found my insulin resistance. I didn't know about that until recently, but knowing about it has allowed me to lose 5.6 kg since starting on a controlled GI diet in just around a month. No other diet - and I've been on many, including Weight Watchers - has helped me lose so much in such a short time. So I pretty much really don't care if you think it's fake or made up syndrome like RLS, as the diagnosis explains why I never lost weight on low fat diets before, why I gain weight more easily than family members eating the exact same food as me, and also helped pin point a potentially deadly issue - diabetes that I didn't know I had. Please don't diagnose folks you have never seen and do not know their medical history. Do not disparage folks like me who are taking their health very seriously, who have been trying without success for nearly 20 years to get my weight under control. I think I have a chance now, and I must give it my best shot.
This thread is a dead end. You're all obviously skinny and perfection in the flesh. One day, you'll be fat. Seriously. If you don't exercise and eat a normal western diet, you'll get fat sooner or later, whether that's an additional few kg or as many as I'm hauling around. I don't see that many rake thin pilots, so I know that you eat as well as I do in hotel rooms around the country. See how you like it when you get plump and people scowl at you for eating a healthy meal in public. See how you like when folks look horrified when you get to your assigned seat. See how you like it when a 50 kg CC bulimic waif tries to measure you in front of all the other PAX as happened to the gentleman on Air France. I'm glad he won, as it means that you can't just humiliate passengers in the same old ways any more. I wait with baited breath to see how the airline industry responds to this, as they wont let this stop them in their quest to make air travel as offensive and hostile as possible.
Have some humility and empathy, and simple human kindness. See it from our eyes - eyes that pay your wages and keep the planes in the air. If you can't, may I suggest call centers. I believe they are looking for the sort of callous disregard of human life that is so obviously on display here.
Andrew
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Vanderaj, you have to organise your life round your physical and medical limitations, I suggest. If you can't fit into the one seat the airline YOU choose to fly with provides then buy another. Do you buy your shoes and clothes too small just because they are cheaper in a smaller size? Probably not! You have certain physical attributes which may be genetic, medical or diet related. It is unfortunate for you but why should your fellow passengers have to suffer because of your physique?
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one idea for a pricing solution - sell 1/2 seats
What do you think of this idea for addressing seat width issues.
I suspect part of the problem with people being reluctant to pay for two seats is the cost. Particularly since if they could pay it the would often choose business class. In addition many people who would benefit from extra space really only need half a seat, hence two people could share three seats. LCCs typically use A320/737 which have seats in blocks of three.
LCC are increasingly charging for seat select and extra leg room, while at the same time most flights still have some empty seats (which people like to be next to) or fill the hard to sell seats at bargain prices.
Why not extend the seat select concept to selling off the right/chance to have a spare set next to you. That way airlines can get some revenue from empty seats. If two people split the fee then the result could be similar to having sold the seat, especially if you factor in reduced baggage handling etc
The seat select options on short haul would become
1) seat select for a specific seat (say $5)
2) premium for extra legroom (e.g. exit isle for $25)
3) guaranteed empty middle seat (25%-40% of ticket price depending on load factors ie sell it at the cheapest % on offpeak flights)
4) preference for empty middle seat if there are empty eats on plane ($25- but only billed if an empty seat is available)
I suspect part of the problem with people being reluctant to pay for two seats is the cost. Particularly since if they could pay it the would often choose business class. In addition many people who would benefit from extra space really only need half a seat, hence two people could share three seats. LCCs typically use A320/737 which have seats in blocks of three.
LCC are increasingly charging for seat select and extra leg room, while at the same time most flights still have some empty seats (which people like to be next to) or fill the hard to sell seats at bargain prices.
Why not extend the seat select concept to selling off the right/chance to have a spare set next to you. That way airlines can get some revenue from empty seats. If two people split the fee then the result could be similar to having sold the seat, especially if you factor in reduced baggage handling etc
The seat select options on short haul would become
1) seat select for a specific seat (say $5)
2) premium for extra legroom (e.g. exit isle for $25)
3) guaranteed empty middle seat (25%-40% of ticket price depending on load factors ie sell it at the cheapest % on offpeak flights)
4) preference for empty middle seat if there are empty eats on plane ($25- but only billed if an empty seat is available)
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1) seat select for a specific seat (say $5)
2) premium for extra legroom (e.g. exit isle for $25)
3) guaranteed empty middle seat (25%-40% of ticket price depending on load factors ie sell it at the cheapest % on offpeak flights)
4) preference for empty middle seat if there are empty eats on plane ($25- but only billed if an empty seat is available)
2) premium for extra legroom (e.g. exit isle for $25)
3) guaranteed empty middle seat (25%-40% of ticket price depending on load factors ie sell it at the cheapest % on offpeak flights)
4) preference for empty middle seat if there are empty eats on plane ($25- but only billed if an empty seat is available)
If a LCC, such as Southwest, wishes me to travel on their pretty new planes, they have to do more than allow me to have a spare seat next to me. I like premium economy for the extra pitch and width and lack of seatbelt extension. I like the fact I can get the tray table down and get some work done or eat without holding food in my hands.
If you're a LCC who is known to embarrass and humiliate on whether or not the ground staff or CC got out of bed the wrong way today (Southwest is not consistent at applying their policy - I flew with them to Vegas in 2006 and was not hassled, but fretted the entire time until the door closed and we rotated), then I will simply take my business elsewhere, some airline that I know has a suitable seat, a seat that makes me comfortable. Flying is a major part of my life, and I try as hard as I can to avoid discomfort for me as much as I can.
Simple no?
If there's no option, say for example, all carriers go single class, then we're stuffed. If I have no choice, you have no choice. I shouldn't be penalized for the cabin arrangements dictated by money hungry carriers. This also goes for old school carriers who put on toy planes like the CRJs and Embraers (no offense to drivers of these fine a/c, but you have to admit they're small) on significant routes to some of the busiest airports in the world.
At my current rate, I will be around BMI 25 in early to mid 2009, but I will still remember Southwest's discriminatory policy for my entire life, and never travel on them. I've influenced many in my company not to take them, and I know that due to me, I've probably pulled the better part of a million dollars of airfares this year alone they could have had if they'd had J class or a premium economy and most of all - no discriminatory policy. It's too late for Southwest.
Andrew
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Vanderaj,
The policy is NOT discriminatory! It couldn't be any fairer if they tried... you pay for a childs seat, if the flight does not sell out then presto changeo you get the child fare refunded.
Your agenda sounds less about handing over $$ moreso than a crusade against LCC's in general - and demanding (from LCC's) more than what you pay for - just on the basis of your size. The policy of "pay for what you need" with a side note of "you may even end up NOT having to pay for what you DO need" is about as fair on you, and your fellow travellers, as one could possibly ask for.
If you are willing to pay for Premium Economy, then why not pay for the childs fare on Southwest? Reading between the lines, there is more to this story.
The policy is NOT discriminatory! It couldn't be any fairer if they tried... you pay for a childs seat, if the flight does not sell out then presto changeo you get the child fare refunded.
Your agenda sounds less about handing over $$ moreso than a crusade against LCC's in general - and demanding (from LCC's) more than what you pay for - just on the basis of your size. The policy of "pay for what you need" with a side note of "you may even end up NOT having to pay for what you DO need" is about as fair on you, and your fellow travellers, as one could possibly ask for.
If you are willing to pay for Premium Economy, then why not pay for the childs fare on Southwest? Reading between the lines, there is more to this story.
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You're not getting it. Southwest don't apply this policy consistently. I could fly 100 times with them and only get dinged once or twice. My flab is over my belly. The problem is not encroachment, it's getting the tray table down.
LCC could make this easier if they offered options such as premium economy or J class.
I don't know what part of the world you're in, but around here, flights are always overbooked. So even if they wanted me to pay, some poor bugger is going to get squished next to me.
If I do get that spare seat, the method by which a thin passenger gets it for free, or a fat passenger has to pay becomes the issue. The stories I've read is that you're either pulled aside at the gate and measured, or once you've boarded, if there's a complaint and someone is forced to sit next to you, they get you to pay.
My airfares are paid for by the travel girl who has a different bucket of cash than me. The fatty payment - if you get dinged for it - is due at time of boarding, and you don't get it back immediately when the seat is taken by some poor sod. Tough luck if you don't have the funds to pay for the child's seat (which is charged full fare that day, not the lovely discount fare you managed some 21 days prior). So basically, I would have to pay up to $500 out of my own funds... but only sometimes. This uncertainty is the killer, and the fact that there is nowhere private to have the "you're a fatty" discussion, and the usual test is to go plane and see if you fit, right in front of all the other PAX.
It's the method of implementation, and the choices foisted upon you. I have the choice not to use Southwest or any carrier which will try to shame me for an extra buck.
I choose carriers which can make me comfortable by having the leg room for my normal height body, width for my additional girth, a tray table which fits an adult and a Macbook Pro, and friendly staff who will never dream of humiliating me because they have no policy allowing that to occur.
I choose that path. Why can you folks not see that? LCC's path is wrong. There is no other disease or predicament that would allow such discrimination in modern life as being fat. It has been stopped, and I bet all the airlines are looking at the ruling carefully as that is a great precedent. That gentleman is no Mrs Parks, but it's a wonderful step at reclaiming the airline industry from unnecessary bigotry and humiliation.
thanks,
Andrew
LCC could make this easier if they offered options such as premium economy or J class.
I don't know what part of the world you're in, but around here, flights are always overbooked. So even if they wanted me to pay, some poor bugger is going to get squished next to me.
If I do get that spare seat, the method by which a thin passenger gets it for free, or a fat passenger has to pay becomes the issue. The stories I've read is that you're either pulled aside at the gate and measured, or once you've boarded, if there's a complaint and someone is forced to sit next to you, they get you to pay.
My airfares are paid for by the travel girl who has a different bucket of cash than me. The fatty payment - if you get dinged for it - is due at time of boarding, and you don't get it back immediately when the seat is taken by some poor sod. Tough luck if you don't have the funds to pay for the child's seat (which is charged full fare that day, not the lovely discount fare you managed some 21 days prior). So basically, I would have to pay up to $500 out of my own funds... but only sometimes. This uncertainty is the killer, and the fact that there is nowhere private to have the "you're a fatty" discussion, and the usual test is to go plane and see if you fit, right in front of all the other PAX.
It's the method of implementation, and the choices foisted upon you. I have the choice not to use Southwest or any carrier which will try to shame me for an extra buck.
I choose carriers which can make me comfortable by having the leg room for my normal height body, width for my additional girth, a tray table which fits an adult and a Macbook Pro, and friendly staff who will never dream of humiliating me because they have no policy allowing that to occur.
I choose that path. Why can you folks not see that? LCC's path is wrong. There is no other disease or predicament that would allow such discrimination in modern life as being fat. It has been stopped, and I bet all the airlines are looking at the ruling carefully as that is a great precedent. That gentleman is no Mrs Parks, but it's a wonderful step at reclaiming the airline industry from unnecessary bigotry and humiliation.
thanks,
Andrew
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From Southwest's Customers of Size Policy:
Customers who are unable to lower the armrests (the definitive boundary between seats) and/or who compromise any portion of adjacent seating should proactively book the number of seats needed during initial reservations. This purchase serves as a notification of an unusual seating need and allows us to process a refund of the additional seating cost after travel (provided the flight doesn’t oversell). Most importantly, it ensures that all onboard have access to safe and comfortable seating
Customers who are unable to lower the armrests (the definitive boundary between seats) and/or who compromise any portion of adjacent seating should proactively book the number of seats needed during initial reservations. This purchase serves as a notification of an unusual seating need and allows us to process a refund of the additional seating cost after travel (provided the flight doesn’t oversell). Most importantly, it ensures that all onboard have access to safe and comfortable seating
Originally Posted by vanderaj
So even if they wanted me to pay, some poor bugger is going to get squished next to me.
Originally Posted by vanderaj
If I do get that spare seat, the method by which a thin passenger gets it for free, or a fat passenger has to pay becomes the issue
Originally Posted by vaneraj
My airfares are paid for by the travel girl who has a different bucket of cash than me. The fatty payment - if you get dinged for it - is due at time of boarding, and you don't get it back immediately when the seat is taken by some poor sod.
Originally Posted by vanderaj
It's the method of implementation, and the choices foisted upon you. I have the choice not to use Southwest or any carrier which will try to shame me for an extra buck.
I choose that path. Why can you folks not see that? LCC's path is
wrong. There is no other disease or predicament that would allow such discrimination in modern life as being fat.
wrong. There is no other disease or predicament that would allow such discrimination in modern life as being fat.
That gentleman is no Mrs Parks, but it's a wonderful step at reclaiming the airline industry from unnecessary bigotry and humiliation.
Its a s-i-m-p-l-e concept - you pay for what you need. Do you see me going to a hotel, booking a single room, then expecting a King size bed just because I am tall and it makes me more comfortable when I am sleeping? No... I book what I know I NEED. And again, I will reiterate - this is NOT about being unsympathetic to customer needs nor displaying a lack of compassion and customer service. Its about people expecting more than they pay for and then bleating on about being discriminated against if they don't get it.
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: MEL
Age: 55
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I think all oversized people should withhold their buying power from the airlines until they (the airlines) change their ways.
No more "big" people on flights.
End of problem.
No more "big" people on flights.
End of problem.
I have to agree that people that have the "something for nothing" attitude really annoys me!
If you take up more room than is given to you then you pay for the extra room.
Otherwise if you want to apply the same logic then I want a prorata refund on every kilo I am under the standard weight!
vanderaj, you do not know under what circumstances the man who sued Air France was measured. I doubt the checkin staff are there ready with a measuring tape as soon as they see a person of size coming, the guy could have been quite hostile and refused to purchase another seat and they might have done it to prove that he could not fit.
I used to be well in to 3 figures (kg), but dropped 36kg's of weight through fitness and good diet, so it's not like I do not know how people can look at you when your larger than normal.
One of my best friends, wifes' sister is married to a "strong man" (yes those guys that run with car bodies and carry boulders as a sport) and even he will book two seats because his shoulders are so broad, his waist more than fits in to the seats.
You also think that you the only person that travels for work Last year I clocked an average of 8 flights a week.
So you can p!ss and moan about how much you spend and how your keeping all these poor people in airlines from the bread lines, but how I see it, airlines are keeping YOU in a job!
If you take up more room than is given to you then you pay for the extra room.
Otherwise if you want to apply the same logic then I want a prorata refund on every kilo I am under the standard weight!
vanderaj, you do not know under what circumstances the man who sued Air France was measured. I doubt the checkin staff are there ready with a measuring tape as soon as they see a person of size coming, the guy could have been quite hostile and refused to purchase another seat and they might have done it to prove that he could not fit.
I used to be well in to 3 figures (kg), but dropped 36kg's of weight through fitness and good diet, so it's not like I do not know how people can look at you when your larger than normal.
One of my best friends, wifes' sister is married to a "strong man" (yes those guys that run with car bodies and carry boulders as a sport) and even he will book two seats because his shoulders are so broad, his waist more than fits in to the seats.
You also think that you the only person that travels for work
Last year I clocked an average of 8 flights a week. So you can p!ss and moan about how much you spend and how your keeping all these poor people in airlines from the bread lines, but how I see it, airlines are keeping YOU in a job!
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Wybacrik
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Vanderaj...you're a big fat slob, mate! You know it, we know it and you're boring the tits off us!!
And you're also having a lend of us!
You're a 55 year old fat slob with a 32 year old wife in a wheelchair who spends $150k a year on air travel and you never advise the airline about these "small" matters when you make a booking!
Give us a break!
You might be stupid, but we're not!
And you're also having a lend of us!
You're a 55 year old fat slob with a 32 year old wife in a wheelchair who spends $150k a year on air travel and you never advise the airline about these "small" matters when you make a booking!
Give us a break!
You might be stupid, but we're not!
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Oz
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Everybody recognises there is a problem here.
Airlines could put on a special daily flight for people who are obese or even have a "fat section" allocation of seats those that choose to buy only one ticket. They can all sit next to one another and enjoy the ambience.
Problem solved.
Maybe the A380
Airlines could put on a special daily flight for people who are obese or even have a "fat section" allocation of seats those that choose to buy only one ticket. They can all sit next to one another and enjoy the ambience.
Problem solved.
Maybe the A380
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Leeds, UK
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wonder wonder
I wonder if these large people who get upset about being asked to pay for a second seat, also get wound up when stuck behind an elderly motorist doing 40 on a quiet A road? The Americans have a saying "value my differences" and what is really means is you all have to respect my weirdness, and in reality nobody respects anybody elses, it's all one way!
G
G
Join Date: Feb 2000
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go stick your head up a dead bear's bum!"
You can do better - please try...