Aborted landings/Go-Arounds
Only 1 GA for me (so far) Delta 767 from ATL to MIA - departing aircraft (Air Jamaica A320) on runway was reluctant to go so up we went - just as Air Jam starting rolling. (looked close(ish) from the ground according to friends (one of whom was ATC at West Drayton at the time)
Have been in reverse situation ie - been sat on the aircraft lined up and ready to go, lot of noise and the shadow of a 737 goes over the top. (Sat on a MAS 737 at Jakarta)
Have been in reverse situation ie - been sat on the aircraft lined up and ready to go, lot of noise and the shadow of a 737 goes over the top. (Sat on a MAS 737 at Jakarta)
Fixed+Rotary (aircraft, not washing lines)
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If you want the GA experience then get yourself on flights into LBA at this time of year.
Had one earlier this week, the BMI 2040 LHR->LBA on Monday evening. Breaking through the clouds for R14 I thought we were getting very low before seeing the ground. Then whey hey! Full power and time for a GA. Crew were fine, made the annoucement as we climbed up then the flight deck came on to explain that the landing ahead of us hadn't cleared the runway and there would be another 5 mins as we tried again. Phew, I wasn't looking forward to another diversion to MAN (which is a risk we run with at LBA this time of year).
I think that's my 3rd GA at LBA. A few years ago the captain made 3 landing attempts before getting through a gap in the clouds. The other time we couldn't get a gap and had to divert to MAN :-(
Have also had one at LGW on BA. Again, the aircraft ahead was slow on departing the runway.
Had one earlier this week, the BMI 2040 LHR->LBA on Monday evening. Breaking through the clouds for R14 I thought we were getting very low before seeing the ground. Then whey hey! Full power and time for a GA. Crew were fine, made the annoucement as we climbed up then the flight deck came on to explain that the landing ahead of us hadn't cleared the runway and there would be another 5 mins as we tried again. Phew, I wasn't looking forward to another diversion to MAN (which is a risk we run with at LBA this time of year).
I think that's my 3rd GA at LBA. A few years ago the captain made 3 landing attempts before getting through a gap in the clouds. The other time we couldn't get a gap and had to divert to MAN :-(
Have also had one at LGW on BA. Again, the aircraft ahead was slow on departing the runway.
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GA
of 748 flights in my log sheet, I've had two go arounds.
First was AA on approach to DCA. Its been a number of years, I don't recall if it was in an F100 or an MD80. In any case, I recall the sudden surge and lift upward. Shortly thereafter, the pilot came on and said someone missed an exit and was still on the runway. 20 minutes later, on the ground no problems
Second was recently on Virgin Blue into ADL. Very windy afternoon, and it looked as if we were going to land, but at about 100 or so feet up the pilot pulled up and the first officer came on board and said conditions weren't right, and we went around and then landed. It was very windy, and I recall thinking, "Gee, its taking awhile for the front end to come down." Eventually it did of course, and the flaps were deployed. I don't ever recall flaps being deployed that long on a 737-700 that I've been on, and I actually thought "Hmm, I wonder if we're going to eat grass" I haven't a clue how long the runways are or how much we had left, but I was ready to open the Delorian exit door and be the first out.
Now that I've experienced that, I'd like an aborted takeoff, please.
I also want to jump down an escape slide. Its kinda like wanting to see a tornado in person.
First was AA on approach to DCA. Its been a number of years, I don't recall if it was in an F100 or an MD80. In any case, I recall the sudden surge and lift upward. Shortly thereafter, the pilot came on and said someone missed an exit and was still on the runway. 20 minutes later, on the ground no problems
Second was recently on Virgin Blue into ADL. Very windy afternoon, and it looked as if we were going to land, but at about 100 or so feet up the pilot pulled up and the first officer came on board and said conditions weren't right, and we went around and then landed. It was very windy, and I recall thinking, "Gee, its taking awhile for the front end to come down." Eventually it did of course, and the flaps were deployed. I don't ever recall flaps being deployed that long on a 737-700 that I've been on, and I actually thought "Hmm, I wonder if we're going to eat grass" I haven't a clue how long the runways are or how much we had left, but I was ready to open the Delorian exit door and be the first out.
Now that I've experienced that, I'd like an aborted takeoff, please.
I also want to jump down an escape slide. Its kinda like wanting to see a tornado in person.
Back in 2004 was on a Qantaslink (Eastern) Dash 8 flight from Sydney to Moree with a stop in Narrabri. Bumpy ride out of Sydney, cloud cover the whole way. Pilot configured for landing and attempted to establish approach at Narrabri, but as we broke through the cloud cover, aircraft pitched up sharply and power was increased. Very impressed by Capt's prompt announcement once we'd gained some altitude that we had aborted the approach as he had been "unable to see the runway above the minimum safe altitude", so we discontinued. CC, well one FA, pregnant at the time, remained very calm throughout, and very reassuring to distressed passengers following the subsequent bumpy, but successful approach.
After spending some time on the ground (the crew advised they were waiting for instructions from the company as to if they should continue to Moree), we took off again before the F/A had finished the safety breif, and once again the Capt. promptly advised that we had taken advantage of a gap in the weather, but that we had enough fuel for one attempt at Moree, and if he couldn't see the runway we would divert to Tamworth. Fortunately, after a few low circuits over the airport, we landed on the first attempt. Was very impressed at the level of information given to us by that crew, and as i was travelling with my mother, a nervous flyer at the best of times, it was very reassuring that the crew had done everything possible to keep us calm, happy and informed. Only heard one pax whinging about the late arrival, of roughly 25 on board!
On another note, I have been in 3 rejected take-offs in a C206, but that was with a full load, on a very short strip!
After spending some time on the ground (the crew advised they were waiting for instructions from the company as to if they should continue to Moree), we took off again before the F/A had finished the safety breif, and once again the Capt. promptly advised that we had taken advantage of a gap in the weather, but that we had enough fuel for one attempt at Moree, and if he couldn't see the runway we would divert to Tamworth. Fortunately, after a few low circuits over the airport, we landed on the first attempt. Was very impressed at the level of information given to us by that crew, and as i was travelling with my mother, a nervous flyer at the best of times, it was very reassuring that the crew had done everything possible to keep us calm, happy and informed. Only heard one pax whinging about the late arrival, of roughly 25 on board!
On another note, I have been in 3 rejected take-offs in a C206, but that was with a full load, on a very short strip!
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We usually spend the summer in Greece flying into JMK, before staying or sailing elsewhere. Have had 4 go arounds there in a 737 and 757 in the last few years (which I quite enjoy as you get a good view of the island) because of the strong northerly winds plus, I suspect the mountains around the end of 34 must cause some problems.
Always impresses me how the crew get us down on the ground, which knowing the airport must be a fantastic piece of hand flying. I remember one year, after going around we came in for a second attempt and we seemed to float and float and eventually touched down as we were about to pass the terminal building - the pilot braked so hard we thought we were going to finish the flight in the cockpit! One of the few times i've twitched nervously
Always impresses me how the crew get us down on the ground, which knowing the airport must be a fantastic piece of hand flying. I remember one year, after going around we came in for a second attempt and we seemed to float and float and eventually touched down as we were about to pass the terminal building - the pilot braked so hard we thought we were going to finish the flight in the cockpit! One of the few times i've twitched nervously
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I've had three
An Aer Lingus 737 into Cork (southerly approach) in bad visibility where the pilot decided he was landing too far down the runway
An Aer Lingus A320 into Cork (northerly approach). This one was odd. On the first approach, the aircraft seemed to be making constant adjustments causing considerable nervousness among the passengers. The second approach couldn't have been smoother. There were no announcements and no obvious weather reasons.
A Ryanair 737 into Dublin. Again there were no announcements, but there were fairy severe winds at the time.
I also had one incident when I was expecting one where I didn't get it. On an A340 into Amsterdam, the aircraft seemed to be lining up to come down a bit shorty of the runway. We came down to around the height of a four storey building and I was saying to myself "Here comes a go-around". Sure enough, the engines fired up, but only enough for the aircraft to maintain height and then it was brought down successfully onto the runwaya few hundred metres further on.
An Aer Lingus 737 into Cork (southerly approach) in bad visibility where the pilot decided he was landing too far down the runway
An Aer Lingus A320 into Cork (northerly approach). This one was odd. On the first approach, the aircraft seemed to be making constant adjustments causing considerable nervousness among the passengers. The second approach couldn't have been smoother. There were no announcements and no obvious weather reasons.
A Ryanair 737 into Dublin. Again there were no announcements, but there were fairy severe winds at the time.
I also had one incident when I was expecting one where I didn't get it. On an A340 into Amsterdam, the aircraft seemed to be lining up to come down a bit shorty of the runway. We came down to around the height of a four storey building and I was saying to myself "Here comes a go-around". Sure enough, the engines fired up, but only enough for the aircraft to maintain height and then it was brought down successfully onto the runwaya few hundred metres further on.
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I had my first the day before yesterday on an EasyJet Airbus 319 (I think) into LGW from Valencia. Wasn't nearly as hairy as I thought, though I suspect it was quite an early abort (I tend to have my nose buried in a book or puzzle to keep my mind occupied and rarely look out the window).
The CC immediately announced that it was SOP for all kinds of reasons and not to worry, then once we were back up and circling, the captain came on and cited "operational reasons"
Unfortunately the plane was already an hour behind schedule and the GA added the vital minutes that meant we missed our next flight to Edinburgh - checkin closed 5 minutes before we got to the desk. That's not to say I don't appreciate there was a bloody good reason for the GA, of course, whatever it may have been
Round of applause when we did get on the deck which was amusing
The CC immediately announced that it was SOP for all kinds of reasons and not to worry, then once we were back up and circling, the captain came on and cited "operational reasons"
Unfortunately the plane was already an hour behind schedule and the GA added the vital minutes that meant we missed our next flight to Edinburgh - checkin closed 5 minutes before we got to the desk. That's not to say I don't appreciate there was a bloody good reason for the GA, of course, whatever it may have been
Round of applause when we did get on the deck which was amusing
Quite a lot of flights but not as many as some here I am sure so perhaps i should feel priveleged or alarmed having been through ten. Impression each time was no real drama. Although the AMS approachw as rough and I could clearly see the rwy lights from my window due to crab angle and the Bermuda one was very very rough-place to avoid in mid winter if you dont like scary turbulence all the way down the approach.
The 747s were amazing just that magic RB211 spool up growl and effortless soaring away from the ground real power. The MD 80s were cool too- amazing take off deck angle even normally and real rocket ships on a go around.
I rather liked all of them actually except the Atlanta ones but that was because I knew if we didnt land off the second approach I was stranded there for 24 hours
BA747-200 Nairobi-- No rwy in sight at decision height-oddly enough Icould see the ground pretty clearly sitting just in from of wing and maybe I supoose 30 ft below the pilots
BA747 200 LHR-- ac not vacating
BA 747 400 JFK-getting too close to guy in front on short finals
DL737 200 Fog at ATL-- 2 missed apps divert to Chatanooga
BA 777 Storm windhear warming at ATL divert to Charlotte
Eastern 727 kindley field Bermuda windshear on finals
KLM 737 -400? AMS Windshear finals
BA767-300 Rome Crosswind out of limits
SK MD80 Brussells -traffic seperation
SK - MD 80 Arlanda - low altitude fog
The 747s were amazing just that magic RB211 spool up growl and effortless soaring away from the ground real power. The MD 80s were cool too- amazing take off deck angle even normally and real rocket ships on a go around.
I rather liked all of them actually except the Atlanta ones but that was because I knew if we didnt land off the second approach I was stranded there for 24 hours
BA747-200 Nairobi-- No rwy in sight at decision height-oddly enough Icould see the ground pretty clearly sitting just in from of wing and maybe I supoose 30 ft below the pilots
BA747 200 LHR-- ac not vacating
BA 747 400 JFK-getting too close to guy in front on short finals
DL737 200 Fog at ATL-- 2 missed apps divert to Chatanooga
BA 777 Storm windhear warming at ATL divert to Charlotte
Eastern 727 kindley field Bermuda windshear on finals
KLM 737 -400? AMS Windshear finals
BA767-300 Rome Crosswind out of limits
SK MD80 Brussells -traffic seperation
SK - MD 80 Arlanda - low altitude fog
Hippopotomonstrosesquipidelian title
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Many years ago, 747 into Moscow in a snowstorm. Looks like we are flying through milk. Plain suddenly climbs and banks left as what appear to be the runway lights come into view, also on the left. Some cabin crew and passengers scream. We circle for about 2 hours then come in for an extraordinarily bumpy landing. A few hours later, we land at LGW (may have been LHR) as though the pilot is landing an apartment block he no longer needs. A very thought-provoking flight indeed.
Also did a flight from LAX to NRT which took something like 30 hours instead of 9, including 2 attempts to get off the ground at LAX followed by a low, wheels-down flight up to SeaTac, sitting on the aircraft there for several hours before being bussed to a motel overnight.
Then there's been a couple of GAs at LBA, but everyone seems to have a couple of them!
Also did a flight from LAX to NRT which took something like 30 hours instead of 9, including 2 attempts to get off the ground at LAX followed by a low, wheels-down flight up to SeaTac, sitting on the aircraft there for several hours before being bussed to a motel overnight.
Then there's been a couple of GAs at LBA, but everyone seems to have a couple of them!
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I had my first on 5 March, LH 321 FRA-LHR. Very bumby coming in over London with the aircraft moving about on all axes, I had a feeling it may happen. Not sure how far off the ground we were but the TOGA button was pushed and up we went again. Aircraft was made clean and we went round. Captain advised we had a windshear warning. Second attempt approach was just as bad but managed to make it down this time. Small round of applause from some pax. There were some pale faces getting off that flight. Mine wasn't one of them!
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First one for me in 30 years of flying around europe, north america and the sth pacific was at SFO.
One of the benefits of flying UA is the channel allowing you to listen to the cockpit audio.As a self proclaimed geek I was listening in on final approach arriving last Sept from Denver. At the same time arriving on a parallel runway, was a a SQ 777. It was a rush to feel our aircraft's engines kick in and pull us out of there. You could sense a slight sense of urgency leading up to our go around. All was explained in the aftermath and it was albeit a tad exciting for this white knuckle flyer
One of the benefits of flying UA is the channel allowing you to listen to the cockpit audio.As a self proclaimed geek I was listening in on final approach arriving last Sept from Denver. At the same time arriving on a parallel runway, was a a SQ 777. It was a rush to feel our aircraft's engines kick in and pull us out of there. You could sense a slight sense of urgency leading up to our go around. All was explained in the aftermath and it was albeit a tad exciting for this white knuckle flyer
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One of the benefits of flying UA is the channel allowing you to listen to the cockpit audio.
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The VHF feed to the 'entertainment' channel would be switched off on any flight I am captain of should my airline ever decide to provide this feature.
I am not there to provide entertainment for passenger amusement. The same would go for any external video cameras.
Just think it through, the captain would always be given the sanction of turning the feeds off. If it is switched on, for 99% of the flights from engine start to shutdown, but switched off for 1% due to technical problems or weather conditions not for public consumption, what would a nervous passenger think when it was switched off? OMG, we are going to die? Much better that it is not switched on to start with, imho. Ignorance is bliss.
I am not there to provide entertainment for passenger amusement. The same would go for any external video cameras.
Just think it through, the captain would always be given the sanction of turning the feeds off. If it is switched on, for 99% of the flights from engine start to shutdown, but switched off for 1% due to technical problems or weather conditions not for public consumption, what would a nervous passenger think when it was switched off? OMG, we are going to die? Much better that it is not switched on to start with, imho. Ignorance is bliss.
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840
"I also had one incident when I was expecting one where I didn't get it. On an A340 into Amsterdam, the aircraft seemed to be lining up to come down a bit shorty of the runway. We came down to around the height of a four storey building and I was saying to myself "Here comes a go-around". Sure enough, the engines fired up, but only enough for the aircraft to maintain height and then it was brought down successfully onto the runwaya few hundred metres further on."
840, was it, by any chance, a very windy day with winds blowing from the southwest? 'cause in that case they sometimes use R/W 24 for landing, but this R/W does not have an ILS in that direction. So they use the ILS of R/W 22, then "circle to land" (actually a 20 degree right turn and a bit of power since 24 starts more or less at the end of 22) on 24.
BTW R/W 22 is only 2000 meters so it's only used for GA, BizJets, small commuters and the occasional 737, if the winds are OK. R/W 24 is 3500 meters so is suitable for the big iron.
840, was it, by any chance, a very windy day with winds blowing from the southwest? 'cause in that case they sometimes use R/W 24 for landing, but this R/W does not have an ILS in that direction. So they use the ILS of R/W 22, then "circle to land" (actually a 20 degree right turn and a bit of power since 24 starts more or less at the end of 22) on 24.
BTW R/W 22 is only 2000 meters so it's only used for GA, BizJets, small commuters and the occasional 737, if the winds are OK. R/W 24 is 3500 meters so is suitable for the big iron.
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Interesting viewpoint re strong SW winds at AMS.
My experience of flying in there over 100 times over the past 17 years or so is that I have only ever landed on the short runway 22 once, and never on 24.
This despite the fact that when the winds are strong, the are frequently from that direction. I had been told that this was due to the local noise lobby determining the operational policy rather than airmanship.
My experience is that they will frequently use runways 27 and 19R as was (and now the new polderdam? 18R) with sizeable crosswinds for arrivals and 24 for departures.
The turbulence onto 27 especially in strong SW winds is quite pronounced
...
Interesting viewpoint re strong SW winds at AMS.
My experience of flying in there over 100 times over the past 17 years or so is that I have only ever landed on the short runway 22 once, and never on 24.
This despite the fact that when the winds are strong, the are frequently from that direction. I had been told that this was due to the local noise lobby determining the operational policy rather than airmanship.
My experience is that they will frequently use runways 27 and 19R as was (and now the new polderdam? 18R) with sizeable crosswinds for arrivals and 24 for departures.
The turbulence onto 27 especially in strong SW winds is quite pronounced
...
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Just think it through, the captain would always be given the sanction of turning the feeds off. If it is switched on, for 99% of the flights from engine start to shutdown, but switched off for 1% due to technical problems or weather conditions not for public consumption, what would a nervous passenger think when it was switched off? OMG, we are going to die? Much better that it is not switched on to start with, imho. Ignorance is bliss.
Remember that we are paying customers who are putting our trust in your airline to transport us safely from A to B. Why should any weather conditions or other situation warrant the pax being left in the dark? If a situation is ever anything less than 100% safe why shouldn't I as a passenger have the right to know?
If a pilot is not doing anything wrong, why have anything to hide? If you are breaking any rules then surely you need to consider having the rules changed rather than breaking them as this is the start of a slippery slope?
Please remember that whilst sitting at the front you know exactly what is going on, further back there are many very nervous pax who imagine all sorts of events and situations. I am one of those and it is quite easy to adopt the "OMG we're all going to die" mindset for no real reason anyway. The lack of knowledge about what is going on is often the cause of this.
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The suggestion to switch off a system at certain times is not related to your 'right to know' - when it comes to listening in to the comms, you have no rights: Sorry to be so blunt.
An airline chooses to install a system for your entertainment: It also chooses the content and availability, just as on any other IFE channel. You have no 'right' to access IFE information, although if the IFE is unavailable on any given sector, you have the right to complain to an airline.
The issue, anyway, is not about an intention to keep you, or anybody else 'in the dark'. The issue is that an event, which may be un-challenging to those trained to fly, may be perceived as being something worse than it actually is by those who are not. Your personal experience level may be quite high, but that may not be the case for others, and this will inevitably mean that there will be varying levels of apprehension. Your desire for visibility of the proceedings may not be matched by others. Besides, once in posession of your own (probably faulty) assesment of the ongoing event - what are you going to do with it? Offer advice? Assist in some way? Phone your lawyer?
An airline chooses to install a system for your entertainment: It also chooses the content and availability, just as on any other IFE channel. You have no 'right' to access IFE information, although if the IFE is unavailable on any given sector, you have the right to complain to an airline.
The issue, anyway, is not about an intention to keep you, or anybody else 'in the dark'. The issue is that an event, which may be un-challenging to those trained to fly, may be perceived as being something worse than it actually is by those who are not. Your personal experience level may be quite high, but that may not be the case for others, and this will inevitably mean that there will be varying levels of apprehension. Your desire for visibility of the proceedings may not be matched by others. Besides, once in posession of your own (probably faulty) assesment of the ongoing event - what are you going to do with it? Offer advice? Assist in some way? Phone your lawyer?