Weather realated DELAYS!
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Weather realated DELAYS!
Seems over the last couple of days there has been bag fog over CWL, with airlines especialy TOM and bmibaby being affected. What I was wondering beacause its the weather are the passengers entiltled to compensation? If so how much, and what does the airline have to do for the passenger?
Thanks for any help!
Thanks for any help!
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No mandatory compensation as far as I'm aware as its a situation beyond the airlines control...though I'm sure some of the stupid angry types would insist the airline could get a very big fan to blow the fog away... 
What the airline does for you in the event of a delay depends on the T&C's & attitude of the individual airline. Its a very mixed bag really - I've had food vouchers from Jet2 after looooong weather and tech delays in AMS, but not at MAN, bugger all from KLM/BA/BMI after any type of delay, long or short, and the usual brush off from Easyjet after a 7 hour delay (flight time - 1 hour, I could've driven LPL-AMS quicker!) caused by crewing problems...
What the airline does for you in the event of a delay depends on the T&C's & attitude of the individual airline. Its a very mixed bag really - I've had food vouchers from Jet2 after looooong weather and tech delays in AMS, but not at MAN, bugger all from KLM/BA/BMI after any type of delay, long or short, and the usual brush off from Easyjet after a 7 hour delay (flight time - 1 hour, I could've driven LPL-AMS quicker!) caused by crewing problems...
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You can always sue God ! But since airlines cannot be responsible for bad weather they are not required to compensate you. If you are interested you can read the regulations (including Regulation 261/2004 para 14 ) Here.
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If the delay is outside of the airline's control then they do not have to provide compensation. However, passengers in the EU do have certain rights. It goes something like...
For a delay of more than 1 hr: Free transfer
For a delay of more than 2 hrs: Meals/Refreshements
For a delay of more than 5 hrs: Free transfer/Refund/Flight back to original point of departure
For a delay of more than 1 hr: Free transfer
For a delay of more than 2 hrs: Meals/Refreshements
For a delay of more than 5 hrs: Free transfer/Refund/Flight back to original point of departure
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If the delay is outside of the airline's control then they do not have to provide compensation. However, passengers in the EU do have certain rights. It goes something like...
For a delay of more than 1 hr: Free transfer
For a delay of more than 2 hrs: Meals/Refreshements
For a delay of more than 5 hrs: Free transfer/Refund/Flight back to original point of departure
For a delay of more than 1 hr: Free transfer
For a delay of more than 2 hrs: Meals/Refreshements
For a delay of more than 5 hrs: Free transfer/Refund/Flight back to original point of departure
I think when the regulators exempted "weather delays" they were thinking about runways blocked with snow, etc. Not the consequential issues that are behind the majority of supposed "weather delays"
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I think a group of loco airlines are currently challenging these 'rights' in court and therefore do not recognise the legislation at this time. Anything provided is currently at the sole discretion of these airlines. I'm not entirely sure which airlines are invloved
easyJet state all of the EU regulations in their terms and conditions, how successful you would be at claiming them is another matter.
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Really beyond their control ? What about where the runway is Cat 3 but the airline in question has not bothered with the extra costs of keeping the crews current ? Or at Heathrow where once LVPs set in they cannot sustain the runway arrival rate scheduled, because they schedule up to the fair-weather maximum, so there have to be arbitrary cancellations. Or where having no slack at all in their schedule (to save costs) leads to knock-on problems that last for days ? Or the elimination of standby crews again to save costs.
I think when the regulators exempted "weather delays" they were thinking about runways blocked with snow, etc. Not the consequential issues that are behind the majority of supposed "weather delays"
I think when the regulators exempted "weather delays" they were thinking about runways blocked with snow, etc. Not the consequential issues that are behind the majority of supposed "weather delays"
I also wasnt aware that Heathrows landing capacity was something within the control of airlines...
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Sleayjet don't bother
A CPH-STN was delay 2 hours, upon taliking to handling agent was advised that EZY would not compensate on the ground but in the air (blatant violation of EU rules) asked to get it in writing from agent - and got it!
On the plane the usual sales pitch started "we want to sell you blah blah blah..." not mentioning of the compensation. When I asked a Cc she refused to honor the promise made by EZY. "we were told not to bother with that", when presented with said docomentation from EZY rep at CPH she reluctantly provided a "refreshment", but to whole flight! "That letter is only issued to you - not the whole flight". Morale of story: Don't trust EZY staff and get everything in writing!
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Flying back to LHR from DUS with BA on Monday, there was significant disruption due to fog at Heathrow. I arrived at Dusseldorf early for my 19:05 (last flight of the day) to find the 14:15 cancelled and the 16:25 50 minutes delayed. I was certainly glad that I was on a scheduled carrier as I had reasonable hopes that if it all went 'pear-shaped' I stood a good chance of being looked after.
Eventually the 17:55 was delayed 90 minutes, at which point I enquired about my 19:05 - 'expected on time' was the reply, which indeed turned out to be the case - yippee!
What surprised me was that my flight was less than half full - I had a row of three seats down the back all to myself. If I'd been on the 17:55, I would certainly have been trying to get on the later (but, in reality, earlier) flight. Are there operational reasons why this wouldn't have been possible?
Anyway, thanks to the ground staff at DUS and the cabin crew on BA945 for being cheerful and helpful (the CC confided in me that they were concerned there would be insufficient catering, but I was the last one to be served and got my all-day-deli ham butty + chocy mousse, so it must have worked out in the end).
PV
PS On the flight out, the in-flight snack was exactly one Jordans Muesli Bar. Bring back the kaesebroetchen (I never thought I'd hear myself say that)!
Eventually the 17:55 was delayed 90 minutes, at which point I enquired about my 19:05 - 'expected on time' was the reply, which indeed turned out to be the case - yippee!
What surprised me was that my flight was less than half full - I had a row of three seats down the back all to myself. If I'd been on the 17:55, I would certainly have been trying to get on the later (but, in reality, earlier) flight. Are there operational reasons why this wouldn't have been possible?
Anyway, thanks to the ground staff at DUS and the cabin crew on BA945 for being cheerful and helpful (the CC confided in me that they were concerned there would be insufficient catering, but I was the last one to be served and got my all-day-deli ham butty + chocy mousse, so it must have worked out in the end).
PV
PS On the flight out, the in-flight snack was exactly one Jordans Muesli Bar. Bring back the kaesebroetchen (I never thought I'd hear myself say that)!
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If the delay is outside of the airline's control then they do not have to provide compensation. However, passengers in the EU do have certain rights. It goes something like...
For a delay of more than 1 hr: Free transfer
For a delay of more than 2 hrs: Meals/Refreshements
For a delay of more than 5 hrs: Free transfer/Refund/Flight back to original point of departure
For a delay of more than 1 hr: Free transfer
For a delay of more than 2 hrs: Meals/Refreshements
For a delay of more than 5 hrs: Free transfer/Refund/Flight back to original point of departure
Financial compensation applies in the case of denied boarding due to overbooking, and to flight cancellation for reasons outside the airline's control. It does not apply to delay.
Duty of care (meals, refreshments, overnight accommodation as appropriate) apply to all delays, not just those beyond the airline's control. The refund or flight back to original departure point is widely misunderstood, it only applies if, because of the delay, the journey serves no purpose. What it means is that you can scrap your entire journey and cash in your ticket, even though it may be nominally non-refundable.
The 'flight back to original departure point' refers to multi-sector journeys where you haven't got to your first destination yet. So you're going from Hong Kong to watch the Cup Final in Cardiff but your Amsterdam-Cardiff flight on Puddlejump Airways is delayed, Puddlejump Airways is obliged to get you back to Hong Kong and refund you the entire cost of your journey.
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I suspect the main difference is the fact that AMS has 6 (or is it 7?) runways compared to the 2 at LHR and seems to be generally less congested (simply down to more space & gates perhaps?) which presumably eases the load under bad weather conditions. I would expect both airports have the same Cat3 landing capability. Just wait till it snows in Holland though, complete chaos is guaranteed then, it seems to be the one thing that stops Schiphol working...
Last edited by perkin; 10th Nov 2006 at 10:51. Reason: Corrected number of runways
Heathrow in good weather can handle 45 arrivals an hour at maximum (and the equivalent departures). And airlines schedule at 99% of this rate all day long. Along comes poor weather, Heathrow's landing aids are fine, best in Europe, but you need extra spacing between aircraft for this at any airport, it's just that at Heathrow things then don't fit any more. That's why you get "weather cancellations" while a steady stream of aircraft are arriving and departing all the time.
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Yes, AMS by contrast does not have an absolutely saturated (in good weather) runway arrangement fitted into a postage stamp sized area (compared to Amsterdam).
Heathrow in good weather can handle 45 arrivals an hour at maximum (and the equivalent departures). And airlines schedule at 99% of this rate all day long. Along comes poor weather, Heathrow's landing aids are fine, best in Europe, but you need extra spacing between aircraft for this at any airport, it's just that at Heathrow things then don't fit any more. That's why you get "weather cancellations" while a steady stream of aircraft are arriving and departing all the time.
Heathrow in good weather can handle 45 arrivals an hour at maximum (and the equivalent departures). And airlines schedule at 99% of this rate all day long. Along comes poor weather, Heathrow's landing aids are fine, best in Europe, but you need extra spacing between aircraft for this at any airport, it's just that at Heathrow things then don't fit any more. That's why you get "weather cancellations" while a steady stream of aircraft are arriving and departing all the time.
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I don't think LHR will ever be able to get some slack in the system, unless if gets more runways. Anything that reduces the flow rate at LHR causes big delays unfortunatly.
Flying Lufthansa FRA - MUN - NCE last Tuesday, fog at at FRA made us late, and the MUN - NCE flight was held - I suspect becasue I went straight to the desk when getting off. But I was told that holding the flight was desirable because it was the last flight to Nice, there were no onward connections, it was more convenient for passengers, and it was cheaper than putting them in a hotel for the night! (The only other passenger connecting was a very pretty young blonde French lady - but she got off after me and wasn't walked along to the connecting gate, having to run!) Of course. my bag didn't make it....and we had the Lufthansa service that has been described here before - the CC took the earliest opportunity of diving into the galley, pulling the curtain and ignoring the passengers, only coming out to clear away as the landing gear went down!
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Bristol? What that hell hole. So some snooty Information desk officer can look down her nose at you when i'm probably on 2/3 times the salary! Where you wait 45 minutes to get to the terminal waiting for a set of stairs while we have a bus waiting and another aircraft has a set of stairs with no bus! Both being handled by servisair at Bristol I understand. Better off i think not after such an ordeal!