Virgin Upper Class
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Are Virgin trying to get rid of Premium passengers?
There have been a lot of comments on various web sites about the reducing quality of the product and service provided in Virgins Upper Class section, from the removal of small touches like the red satin pillows, flowers on the bar, reduction in choice of drinks, reduction in the choice and quality of the food selection etc, and lately the removal of an acceptable ameinity kit (already reduced from the good ones with the Virgin Vie in them) to basically a cardboard envelope with a minimal amount of products in it (not even a pen).
Looking on the V-Flyer site, a site which normally is very Pro VA, even they seem fed up with the standards being shown today.
There is a breifing from I take it, VA Management on the "Snooze Packs" which to my reading seems to be saying "this is cheaper for us, get used to it UC Pax, we really don't care what you think about these fantastic new enhancements to the service"
http://www.v-flyer.com/forum/topic.a...5&whichpage=15
"It is clear from your comments here that the introduction of the new Snooze Pack is a contentious and emotive issue. During my recent travels, I found that people understand and support the decision once it is fully explained to them. It is clear we could have done a much better job explaining what we are aiming to achieve, which is why I am writing this. I would like to take this opportunity to give you all the facts.
We were finding that passengers frequently left the old kits behind and discarded many of their contents. This was wasteful and not environmentally friendly, but it was also expensive and at odds with our Manifesto goal of driving efficiency and effectiveness. In fact we had lots of negative comments from staff and passengers alike complaining about the waste. We know that only 40% of items in the packs were used.
So we used this information to determine what our passengers really wanted and we put together a kit that only included those items that didn’t get returned. It is also worth mentioning that the reasons people fly Virgin is because of our legendary service: our staff, Clubhouses, limo transfers, the Upper Class Suite, onboard bar, in-flight massage, etc. The amenity kit needs to be seen in this context.
Nevertheless, since the launch we have listened to the feedback from Cabin Crew and passengers and decided on the following changes:
We have decided to include a toothbrush and toothpaste in the kit. Whilst only 40% of passengers used these we are reinstating them to facilitate a speedier service.
We are sourcing a larger wallet to include these items and at the same time we are also addressing the gluing issues that have been encountered with some packs. This will take some time to produce because our amenity kits are sourced in the Far East. So in the meantime, toothbrush, toothpaste and pens are to be offered on a tray. Sufficient numbers of each of these will be loaded so that every passenger will have one.
We already have a range of supplementary items that are available on request but we have decided to upgrade this service. So, we are developing an accessories service, with the help of the Cabin Crew and Inflight Services. We will source a range of better quality items (eg moisturisers, lip balm) that we will offer in addition to the Snooze Pack.
It is important we iron this out because we are not going to reintroduce the old amenity kit. Plus we can benefit from a significant saving of over £1m by eliminating waste, so we need to ask for your continued support with this."
What do you all think? is this good cost effectiveness or another diminution in an already falling service from VA??
Looking on the V-Flyer site, a site which normally is very Pro VA, even they seem fed up with the standards being shown today.
There is a breifing from I take it, VA Management on the "Snooze Packs" which to my reading seems to be saying "this is cheaper for us, get used to it UC Pax, we really don't care what you think about these fantastic new enhancements to the service"
http://www.v-flyer.com/forum/topic.a...5&whichpage=15
"It is clear from your comments here that the introduction of the new Snooze Pack is a contentious and emotive issue. During my recent travels, I found that people understand and support the decision once it is fully explained to them. It is clear we could have done a much better job explaining what we are aiming to achieve, which is why I am writing this. I would like to take this opportunity to give you all the facts.
We were finding that passengers frequently left the old kits behind and discarded many of their contents. This was wasteful and not environmentally friendly, but it was also expensive and at odds with our Manifesto goal of driving efficiency and effectiveness. In fact we had lots of negative comments from staff and passengers alike complaining about the waste. We know that only 40% of items in the packs were used.
So we used this information to determine what our passengers really wanted and we put together a kit that only included those items that didn’t get returned. It is also worth mentioning that the reasons people fly Virgin is because of our legendary service: our staff, Clubhouses, limo transfers, the Upper Class Suite, onboard bar, in-flight massage, etc. The amenity kit needs to be seen in this context.
Nevertheless, since the launch we have listened to the feedback from Cabin Crew and passengers and decided on the following changes:
We have decided to include a toothbrush and toothpaste in the kit. Whilst only 40% of passengers used these we are reinstating them to facilitate a speedier service.
We are sourcing a larger wallet to include these items and at the same time we are also addressing the gluing issues that have been encountered with some packs. This will take some time to produce because our amenity kits are sourced in the Far East. So in the meantime, toothbrush, toothpaste and pens are to be offered on a tray. Sufficient numbers of each of these will be loaded so that every passenger will have one.
We already have a range of supplementary items that are available on request but we have decided to upgrade this service. So, we are developing an accessories service, with the help of the Cabin Crew and Inflight Services. We will source a range of better quality items (eg moisturisers, lip balm) that we will offer in addition to the Snooze Pack.
It is important we iron this out because we are not going to reintroduce the old amenity kit. Plus we can benefit from a significant saving of over £1m by eliminating waste, so we need to ask for your continued support with this."
What do you all think? is this good cost effectiveness or another diminution in an already falling service from VA??
Join Date: Feb 2006
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Sorry can you just clarify as to what reductions in drink choices there have been? There has been none in the last four years that I have worked for Virgin Atlantic. In fact there has been an increase as far as I know, Bellinis is one that springs to mind. Also not many airlines offer Mixologists on selected flights, Croupiers on others. As much as I agree that the Amenity Kit situation is dire I still think that the management noticed that they made a mistake and are in the process of trying to find a solution for it. The Red Satin pillow looked lovely but didnt enhance the serice offered onboard, the flower was nice aswell however it wasnt essetially needed and had no effect on the service offered either.
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Originally Posted by Gpik
Sorry can you just clarify as to what reductions in drink choices there have been? There has been none in the last four years that I have worked for Virgin Atlantic.
I notice no comment about the "Scrooge Packs " though?
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I actually edited the comment to include this. The supplier changed....quality and choice did not go down. If Virgin wanted to get rid of premium passengers they would never have launched the Upper Class Suite. Load factors in this cabin are extremely high and the airline is doing very well.
Drinnks offered in Upper Class. Bellinis, Laurent Perrier Champagne, Tanqueray or Bombay Sapphire Gin, Virgin Fallen Vodka (Smirnoff available), Bacardi, Baileys, 3 White Wines. (currently 2 new world and one old world) 3 Red Wines (2 new world, on old world) Glenmorangie and Dewars whiskies, Numerous soft drinks, fruit juices, Martini, Malibu....the list goes on, 2 choices of lagers (route specific)....i personally think that most peoples tastes are covered there....im sure ive missed a few out aswell
Drinnks offered in Upper Class. Bellinis, Laurent Perrier Champagne, Tanqueray or Bombay Sapphire Gin, Virgin Fallen Vodka (Smirnoff available), Bacardi, Baileys, 3 White Wines. (currently 2 new world and one old world) 3 Red Wines (2 new world, on old world) Glenmorangie and Dewars whiskies, Numerous soft drinks, fruit juices, Martini, Malibu....the list goes on, 2 choices of lagers (route specific)....i personally think that most peoples tastes are covered there....im sure ive missed a few out aswell
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The problem perceived with Virgin is its inconsistancy.
The Scrooge packs are just another symbol of that.
Whilst on some routes out of LHR you get the "full service" IFBT, Mixologists, even a decent IFE. Try flying from LGW or MAN. Man especially, no Clubhouse and if travelling with children, no entrance to the alternate lounge, no revivals, Super Nova IFE. Price of flights not different though..
VS have just provided acces to another airlines Revivals lounge at LGW, but what a choice of products compared to LHR, no cooked brekky for example.
The last time I flew UCS no extra pillows, just that single flat pillow. At least you could raise it with the satin pillow. the toothpaste and brush available in a cup in the washroom, no pen no mints, no moisturiser in the cardboard envelope. No cufflinks
No first choice of wines, not loaded on the aircraft, where was the third choice of appetisers? Gone off the Ex freedom menu, Champagne tased awful compared to BA's, what on earth are those mint chocolates? what has happened to the tasty ones that were on the bar? remember whan the fruit bowl had a choice of fruits not just a choice of two types?
They are all small things, but they add up to a diminution of the product and ut seems that all VS management can say is "well, you have a flat bed and a Clubhouse (though only at certain airports) what more do you want?"
Ask many people who are now flying with alternate airlines, including some of the Charter types such as FCA and the new buisness MAXJET.
The Scrooge packs are just another symbol of that.
Whilst on some routes out of LHR you get the "full service" IFBT, Mixologists, even a decent IFE. Try flying from LGW or MAN. Man especially, no Clubhouse and if travelling with children, no entrance to the alternate lounge, no revivals, Super Nova IFE. Price of flights not different though..
VS have just provided acces to another airlines Revivals lounge at LGW, but what a choice of products compared to LHR, no cooked brekky for example.
The last time I flew UCS no extra pillows, just that single flat pillow. At least you could raise it with the satin pillow. the toothpaste and brush available in a cup in the washroom, no pen no mints, no moisturiser in the cardboard envelope. No cufflinks
No first choice of wines, not loaded on the aircraft, where was the third choice of appetisers? Gone off the Ex freedom menu, Champagne tased awful compared to BA's, what on earth are those mint chocolates? what has happened to the tasty ones that were on the bar? remember whan the fruit bowl had a choice of fruits not just a choice of two types?
They are all small things, but they add up to a diminution of the product and ut seems that all VS management can say is "well, you have a flat bed and a Clubhouse (though only at certain airports) what more do you want?"
Ask many people who are now flying with alternate airlines, including some of the Charter types such as FCA and the new buisness MAXJET.
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In fairness, some points you mention re the snooze pack are valid, however, the pillow flat? are you havin a laugh? its twice as thick as the one that I use at home to sleep on, the old red pillow would maybe of added about a cm of height onto it. So in my opinion no need. Its all about personal taste I suppose, as regards to the champagne, again this is probably due to personal taste aswell.
Manchester at the moment with 14 J seats a day, 28 on busy days doesnt really justify spending millions of pounds on a Clubhouse. VS are commmited to increasing leisure routes out of MAN and LGW. Maybe when the pax numbers justify a lounge of sorts then Im sure Vs will get one.
Nova entertainment..I agree whilst no where near as good as V-port, still offers passengers a good selection of films and T.V programmes, on routes that If they flew on other airlines they wouldnt get.
Im the first to admit that I may be a bit biased with my comments, I am proud to work for VS and am proud of the product that we offer.
We must be doing something right tho, we continue to gain corporate accounts, continue to have good load factors in J, continue to make profits in a dodgy marketplace. Increasing frequencies on routes where we compete with these all J class operators...NYC up to 6 flights a day. HKG going up to double daily from next year. Cant be doing to badly..
Manchester at the moment with 14 J seats a day, 28 on busy days doesnt really justify spending millions of pounds on a Clubhouse. VS are commmited to increasing leisure routes out of MAN and LGW. Maybe when the pax numbers justify a lounge of sorts then Im sure Vs will get one.
Nova entertainment..I agree whilst no where near as good as V-port, still offers passengers a good selection of films and T.V programmes, on routes that If they flew on other airlines they wouldnt get.
Im the first to admit that I may be a bit biased with my comments, I am proud to work for VS and am proud of the product that we offer.
We must be doing something right tho, we continue to gain corporate accounts, continue to have good load factors in J, continue to make profits in a dodgy marketplace. Increasing frequencies on routes where we compete with these all J class operators...NYC up to 6 flights a day. HKG going up to double daily from next year. Cant be doing to badly..
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Warkman and Gpik,
some good structured debate
not often seen PPrune without handbags
Can I just steer the topic back to the original question?
Is upper class designed too much for the business traveller who may want seclusion in their pods or, should I book, will my new wife and I be pleasently surprised?
Personally I'm quite happy to sit at the bar the whole flight
However my other half is a moderately nervous flyer so she likes to hold hands during take-off and landing. I can't see from the pictures and plan diagrams how this will be possible
some good structured debate
not often seen PPrune without handbags Can I just steer the topic back to the original question?
Is upper class designed too much for the business traveller who may want seclusion in their pods or, should I book, will my new wife and I be pleasently surprised?
Personally I'm quite happy to sit at the bar the whole flight
However my other half is a moderately nervous flyer so she likes to hold hands during take-off and landing. I can't see from the pictures and plan diagrams how this will be possible
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Sorry Yellowsnow, the thread was started as a seperate thread by warkman, the moderators merged it with this one.
Essentially the Upper Class Suite was designed for the business traveller, Virgin were losing thousands due to the poorly designed J2000 seat.
The J cabin on our flights to St Lucia is really nice, small and intimate. There is only 14J seats. The closest seats together in this cabin that I would recommend would be 6A and 6K. These seats are right up at the nose of the aircraft therefor you and your wife could sit accross from each other. You are looked after by one Senior Crew member and a Cabin Services Supervisor. Plus one crew member preparing the meals so 3 crew for 14 passengers.
The biggest downside with the UCS is that sadly it is uncomfortable to sit and hold hands with your partner.
During the flight the ottoman which doubles as a foot rest for the passenger can be used to have your meal together , enjoy a glass of wine, or just to sit and have a chat with each other, its a great part of our suite and one that I know our passengers enjoy...because they tell me themselves.
Best of luck with your decision making.
Essentially the Upper Class Suite was designed for the business traveller, Virgin were losing thousands due to the poorly designed J2000 seat.
The J cabin on our flights to St Lucia is really nice, small and intimate. There is only 14J seats. The closest seats together in this cabin that I would recommend would be 6A and 6K. These seats are right up at the nose of the aircraft therefor you and your wife could sit accross from each other. You are looked after by one Senior Crew member and a Cabin Services Supervisor. Plus one crew member preparing the meals so 3 crew for 14 passengers.
The biggest downside with the UCS is that sadly it is uncomfortable to sit and hold hands with your partner.
During the flight the ottoman which doubles as a foot rest for the passenger can be used to have your meal together , enjoy a glass of wine, or just to sit and have a chat with each other, its a great part of our suite and one that I know our passengers enjoy...because they tell me themselves.
Best of luck with your decision making.
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It's interesting to see the comments about the snooze pack. I hadn't seen one ,but it struck me when I read about it that it was the ultimate in cheapness.
People have rightly commented that it effectively cheapens the product. It's like a hotelier saying that most people don't notice the wallpaper, so they will just get some nasty cheap woodchip from the local DIY megastore next time. People probably didn't pay much heed to the amenity kits, but guess what, they noticed when they didn't get one (even if they never used it), and got a paper envelope instead!!
I am always truly astonished that when a company comes up with a winning formula, the very next thing they do is try to destroy it. Maybe some aspects of the upper class experience were superfluous in purely functional terms, but it added to the classiness and ambience. Personally the spin from Virgin on this subject is nothing short of boll*cks - do they think their passengers are so dumb as to swallow that guff?
I like Virgin, but these types of changes worry me, especially when the management seem not to listen to their fare paying UC pax.
People have rightly commented that it effectively cheapens the product. It's like a hotelier saying that most people don't notice the wallpaper, so they will just get some nasty cheap woodchip from the local DIY megastore next time. People probably didn't pay much heed to the amenity kits, but guess what, they noticed when they didn't get one (even if they never used it), and got a paper envelope instead!!
I am always truly astonished that when a company comes up with a winning formula, the very next thing they do is try to destroy it. Maybe some aspects of the upper class experience were superfluous in purely functional terms, but it added to the classiness and ambience. Personally the spin from Virgin on this subject is nothing short of boll*cks - do they think their passengers are so dumb as to swallow that guff?
I like Virgin, but these types of changes worry me, especially when the management seem not to listen to their fare paying UC pax.
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Inconsistency of product has always been a problem for Virgin.
The A340-600 is a nightmare, an enormous cabin of serried ranks of seats, inadequate galleys and (often) grumpy crews. Who can blame them?
Their fortunate colleagues in 744 pamper happy SLF in splendid surroundings.
Sir Richard promises so much, and yet is so often so very disappointing.
I have had wonderful flights with Virgin, and Absolute ****e flights with Virgin. The pity is, as one boards (or perhaps more importantly, books), that one simply doesent know which one is in for.
The A340-600 is a nightmare, an enormous cabin of serried ranks of seats, inadequate galleys and (often) grumpy crews. Who can blame them?
Their fortunate colleagues in 744 pamper happy SLF in splendid surroundings.
Sir Richard promises so much, and yet is so often so very disappointing.
I have had wonderful flights with Virgin, and Absolute ****e flights with Virgin. The pity is, as one boards (or perhaps more importantly, books), that one simply doesent know which one is in for.
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Just flown VS in economy LHR-JNB-LHR and got a pen- are they not doing this in UC? I'll find out travelling UC to India in October.
What makes VS is the cabin crew. Whatever class you're flying they just do their best and it's so much better than anyone I've flown with! They will do their very best to do what they can fpr you.
What makes VS is the cabin crew. Whatever class you're flying they just do their best and it's so much better than anyone I've flown with! They will do their very best to do what they can fpr you.
Paxing All Over The World
warkman, I was starting to agree with you but
lost me. What are you looking for from an airline? No, I do not work for them but am a satisfied customer across 20 years. Of late, I have not travelled them as my job changed. I am planning a trip to South Africa in October and expect to be on VS, either PE or UC and paying on my own account.
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Hmmm
Virgin cheapening the product - that sounds familiar.
I use their rail product - first class - well that's what they call it, but it ain't what it used to be, so the comments about the management style upstairs indicates that the entire company runs on the "look its shiny and new" mantra rather than " but don't look too closely because you will find its also rather cheap and tacky"
What do I mean -
The end of decent meal service.
The introduction of new trains which are not in the same leagues as those they replaced - less spacious, smaller overall profile and fitted out with uncomfortable hard seats.
Toilets that do all sorts of interesting things, like refusing to let patrons in - but once you are in will sometimes open their doors to visitors!
Lovely latrine smells right through the entire train
But don't worry - the staff have lovely red uniforms and Tricky Dicky pops up everywhere on publicity so the troops think he's wonderful.
Virgin cheapening the product - that sounds familiar.
I use their rail product - first class - well that's what they call it, but it ain't what it used to be, so the comments about the management style upstairs indicates that the entire company runs on the "look its shiny and new" mantra rather than " but don't look too closely because you will find its also rather cheap and tacky"
What do I mean -
The end of decent meal service.
The introduction of new trains which are not in the same leagues as those they replaced - less spacious, smaller overall profile and fitted out with uncomfortable hard seats.
Toilets that do all sorts of interesting things, like refusing to let patrons in - but once you are in will sometimes open their doors to visitors!
Lovely latrine smells right through the entire train
But don't worry - the staff have lovely red uniforms and Tricky Dicky pops up everywhere on publicity so the troops think he's wonderful.
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Originally Posted by PAXboy
warkman, I was starting to agree with you but lost me. What are you looking for from an airline? No, I do not work for them but am a satisfied customer across 20 years. Of late, I have not travelled them as my job changed. I am planning a trip to South Africa in October and expect to be on VS, either PE or UC and paying on my own account.
What I do not expect to get is an ameinity pack for example, that is worse than the one supplied to the Economy passengers. At least they still get a pen and a toothbrush and toothpaste.
I don't expect every time I fly with them to be wondering what next has been removed from the buisness ticket package.
And yes, most of my flights I pay for myself, not paid for by my company.
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Originally Posted by 22/04
Just flown VS in economy LHR-JNB-LHR and got a pen- are they not doing this in UC? I'll find out travelling UC to India in October.
What makes VS is the cabin crew. Whatever class you're flying they just do their best and it's so much better than anyone I've flown with! They will do their very best to do what they can fpr you.
What makes VS is the cabin crew. Whatever class you're flying they just do their best and it's so much better than anyone I've flown with! They will do their very best to do what they can fpr you.
I have found on east to west flights the Cc are superb, if they have a full compliment, but these days the Senior member does not come up and welcome you by name any more as they used to do, in fact many times, they are too busy filling in somewhere else on the plane I think, due to less crew now being on board?
On west to esat the attitude of the crew is not as good as it used to be. This and I am sure will either be agreed by VS staff on here or not, is due to the demands of the job these days and the short time available in the USA between flights.
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Originally Posted by Gpik
In fairness, some points you mention re the snooze pack are valid, however, the pillow flat? are you havin a laugh? its twice as thick as the one that I use at home to sleep on, the old red pillow would maybe of added about a cm of height onto it. So in my opinion no need. Its all about personal taste I suppose, as regards to the champagne, again this is probably due to personal taste aswell.
Manchester at the moment with 14 J seats a day, 28 on busy days doesnt really justify spending millions of pounds on a Clubhouse. VS are commmited to increasing leisure routes out of MAN and LGW. Maybe when the pax numbers justify a lounge of sorts then Im sure Vs will get one.
Nova entertainment..I agree whilst no where near as good as V-port, still offers passengers a good selection of films and T.V programmes, on routes that If they flew on other airlines they wouldnt get.
Im the first to admit that I may be a bit biased with my comments, I am proud to work for VS and am proud of the product that we offer.
We must be doing something right tho, we continue to gain corporate accounts, continue to have good load factors in J, continue to make profits in a dodgy marketplace. Increasing frequencies on routes where we compete with these all J class operators...NYC up to 6 flights a day. HKG going up to double daily from next year. Cant be doing to badly..
Manchester at the moment with 14 J seats a day, 28 on busy days doesnt really justify spending millions of pounds on a Clubhouse. VS are commmited to increasing leisure routes out of MAN and LGW. Maybe when the pax numbers justify a lounge of sorts then Im sure Vs will get one.
Nova entertainment..I agree whilst no where near as good as V-port, still offers passengers a good selection of films and T.V programmes, on routes that If they flew on other airlines they wouldnt get.
Im the first to admit that I may be a bit biased with my comments, I am proud to work for VS and am proud of the product that we offer.
We must be doing something right tho, we continue to gain corporate accounts, continue to have good load factors in J, continue to make profits in a dodgy marketplace. Increasing frequencies on routes where we compete with these all J class operators...NYC up to 6 flights a day. HKG going up to double daily from next year. Cant be doing to badly..
the Nova IFE whilst being more err "Stable" than V-Port has been overthaken by most of the transatlantic airlines and most of them are also introducing flat beds these days.
last time I was on board, my IFE would not stay where you put it, just kept floating around, the cover was coming off and was showing sever signs of wear as did the whole UCS. At least my UCS worked, poor CC having to struggle with two other seats to get them to work. Good job the skirts are as long as they are the contortions the CC were having to get into to get the seat to work!
Even you will accept that quite a few passengers in J complain about the quality of the food served by VS compared to BA, AA, CO and many others.
Paxing All Over The World
Well, I agree with VS about reducing the amenity pack. Periodically I turf out the collected items from such packs that I have never used! When my nephews and neice were small, I used to give them the packs but my eldest nephew is now driving 744s himself so I don't need more pens and junk.
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Originally Posted by PAXboy
Well, I agree with VS about reducing the amenity pack. Periodically I turf out the collected items from such packs that I have never used! When my nephews and neice were small, I used to give them the packs but my eldest nephew is now driving 744s himself so I don't need more pens and junk.
you like me will have seen a steady reduction in the quality of these packs from the old Virgin Vie, almost as good as the BA G, through the OB kits to a cardboard sleeve.
those of us who fly a lot may not always take the kits but what about those who fly once a year, this is there first VS flight in "Buisness/First" and they are given a kit which looks worse than the kit they get in Economy? It maight have taken them a long time to save up and expect the bells and whistles.