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BA Baggage Allowance Cuts

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Old 24th Jul 2006, 14:10
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Maybe BA thinks that they are protect by the "..right to change conditions, etc ... without preventive advise" or words to that affect that inviariably are in the carrying contract
Aerolineas Argentina did exactly the same about one year ago, reducing allowance on transoceanic the day before my travel date. At that time it didn't even crossed my mind that in true fairness the conditions at the time of booking should prevail. So I gave in, a stoopid choice because where I live, small claims are free of any legal costs.
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Old 24th Jul 2006, 14:20
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Aren't BA just doing a 'bait and switch'? Even Ryanair honoured the rules at the time of booking when they recently changed their baggage allowances, you BA apologists on here need to wake up and smell the coffee
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Old 24th Jul 2006, 15:37
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Originally Posted by 10secondsurvey
Regarding the way the timing of this change has been handled is also interesting. For example, the budget airline Flybe introduced changes to its luggage policy earlier this year, yet it did not set a 'starting date' like BA, instead using infinite wisdom (clearly lacking at top level BA management), Flybe made its announcement that the changes would start for any ticket BOOKED AFTER 1st May.
The difference is critical, people therefore had a choice, as the changes only applied to tickets actually booked after a set date, whereas with BA the changes will apply regardless of how long ago you booked the flight.
BA management should take note, as many of those posting here, booked their tickets before the changes were announced, and they are rightly angry. Top marks to BA for sheer skill in p*ssing off its most frequent flyers.
As others have pointed out, Virgin claim their allowances meet any regulations already, so the line from BA about meeting safety requirements sounds even more like utter b*llocks.
My bolding applies. Over a month on and I'm more angry now than I was when this was first announced. One of the main reasons being BA's blatant bending of the truth in putting the facts to customers.

This from Business Traveller - So far BA is the only carrier which has opted to bring in such a baggage policy. An airline spokesperson (who wished not to be named) told Business Traveller, "All airlines are looking at reducing costs and now it seems that some carriers are focusing on baggage. But in my opinion BA's idea of a weight concept has taken it to extremes."

Also from Business Traveller - Travellers using other airlines can breathe a sigh of relief. At this stage spokespeople for Oneworld and rival Star confirm that their members are not looking at following BA. Says a spokesperson for Oneworld, "It's up to each individual carrier to decide its own baggage policy.

Yet we continue to be told BA's policy is to fall in line with others. Yes, I do know the US carriers have the 23kg in Y, but they have much more leeway for premium pax, and excess considerably lower.

BA have also advised me that the reason for the change is "due to concern over our employees lifting heavy weights" - no mention of any Government body there.

And 10secondsurvey has hit the nail right on the head. Yes, I'm one of those booked before changes announced, but having to put up with it. The standard response from BA is "you have been warned in sufficient time to adjust your arrangements" - DUH I'm going for vacation and shopping - how am I supposed to adjust my shopping arrangements when I'm allowed 2 x 32kg outbound and only 2 x 23kg on return - by the time I've tried to condense my outbound luggage into what's allowed on the return I won't be doing any shopping at all!!
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Old 24th Jul 2006, 17:33
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Florida candle hope you stick to the limits on what you can bring into the uk from America regards to what you can spend over there on shopping that weight limit sounds like a lot of shopping!!!! lol!!!!!!!!!!!
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Old 24th Jul 2006, 18:11
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Originally Posted by marlowe
Florida candle hope you stick to the limits on what you can bring into the uk from America regards to what you can spend over there on shopping that weight limit sounds like a lot of shopping!!!! lol!!!!!!!!!!!
Oh I love my shopping One of my favourite hobbies in life! As for Customs, never buy anything expensive (can't afford it now with BA's excess fees ) as most of my time is spent in Target (pronounced Tar - zhay for those posh ones out there!!)
Always within my limits, but not sure what I'm going to do this time. Can't miss out on my favourite hobby in US
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Old 24th Jul 2006, 19:01
  #86 (permalink)  
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Florida Candle

What I would do, were I in your shoes, is....

1) calculate how much more you are going to have to pay to take your original baggage allowance

2) write to BA and give them 10 days to agree to pay you these liquidated damages becuase of their actions

3) if they don't agree wihtin the timeframe, give them a further 7 days

4) if they still don't agree, issue a summons in the small claims court.

I reckon that a small claims administrator (judge) would look very dimly on what they have done and find in your favour.

If not, it will cost BA a lot of money to defend the action and they can't get costs awarded against you, so you are only risking your initial stake.

Iì'd be amazed if they let it get to court.
 
Old 25th Jul 2006, 13:51
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Here is the original letter that i wrote to BA over a month ago now.

Mr W Walsh
Chief Executive
British Airways PLC
Waterside
PO Box 365
Harmonsworth
Middlesex UB70 0GB 15 June 2006


Dear Sir,

I am writing to express my extreme annoyance and disappointment with British Airways.

On April 19 this year, I booked and paid for 2 return tickets to PhoenixArizona, USA. The booking ref is YQJDTP. My departure date is 5 Nov 06 on BA289 and my return date is 23 Nov 06 on BA288.

At the time of my booking, your staff advised me that my baggage allowance would be 2 pieces not more that 32 kgs each. One of the major reasons why I insist on flying British Airways, is that I know I can take all of my own personal flying equipment etc with me, safe in the knowledge that I don’t have to worry about baggage allowance because your allowance is better than other airlines.

Yesterday however, I received an e mail from Jayne O’Brien stating that with effect from 11 Oct 06, you would be changing your baggage allowance to 23 kgs per piece.

Despite leaving messages for Ms O’Brien and her secretary to call, as well as leaving e-mails on your web site, I must tell you that neither of them has called me. I did finally manage to get through to a lady called Rosalie yesterday, who advised me that you had the right to change the baggage allowance whenever you choose, and there was nothing that could be done about it. In very simple terms ‘tough’

This is a quite appalling way to treat people Sir, and I am shocked that a company of the prestige of British Airways is prepared to treat its customers in that way.
When you sent me my E-Ticket confirmation of this booking you also sent me your ‘conditions of contract’. On page 2 of that contract, it advised me what my baggage allowance was. In my humble opinion, I believe that you are now breaching that contract. Surely you must agree that you have, at the very least, a moral responsibility to honour the conditions of tickets when they were purchased? If not, do you not feel honour bound to offer a refund on the tickets or a discount of some sort? You are British Airways after all, and I should have thought that you could have at least offered those of us affected something in return for this cut in our allowance?

I have always been a staunch supporter of British Airways all my life, and have been responsible for many people flying with you over the years. I have remained loyal to your company, despite your costs often being higher than other carriers, and I have always argued with my superiors that British Airways are second to none, citing your generous baggage allowance as one example why we should fly with you. However, I do genuinely feel aggrieved by this decision.

Sadly, there is absolutely no reason whatsoever to remain loyal to you any more, particularly in light of this recent decision, and I am ashamed at the way you are treating me and no doubt countless others. Shame on you Sir.

I regret that, unless a satisfactory solution to this immediate problem of baggage for my trip to Phoenix can be accomplished, then I can assure you that I will NEVER fly British Airways again, and I will seek legal advice over this question of Breach of Contract.

I look forward to your earliest reply.


Here is the one I have sent today, following conversations with DofT and HSE:


Dear Sir,


Further to my letter dated 15 June, on Friday last week (21 July 06) I received a phone call from one of your Executive Assistants namely Kamlesh, who tried, in vain, to explain the reasons why you have reduced your baggage allowance from 32 kgs per piece to 23 kgs per piece.

She cited UK Department of Trade ‘rulings’ and other ‘legislation’ that was forcing you into introducing this reduction in baggage allowance, and thus bring you into line with other major operators. She was quite vociferous in arguing that this decision was not of your own making, and that you were being ‘forced’ into reducing baggage allowance.

She pointed out that, as there was nothing you could do about it, there was nothing to resolve. Despite requesting a refund or a reduction in the costs of the tickets, or an upgrade, she claimed that there was absolutely nothing whatsoever that she or British Airways could do about it. In very simple terms ‘sorry, but tough Mr Rumble’

I have today spoken with the Department of Trade and Industry at length over this matter. They have given me an assurance that they have had nothing to do with this whatsoever, and have introduced nothing of the sort. Indeed, they categorically denied being involved in any way with the amount of weight that any employee can carry, or the amount of baggage allowance given by an airline operator, stating that if anything, it would be a health and safety matter.

I have also spoken to the Health and Safety Executive today about the very same matter. They too completely deny any involvement whatsoever and even quoted to me the ‘manual handling operation regulations’ paper dated 1992, which states that the maximum advised limit is actually 32kgs, and NOT 23 kgs as your assistant seems to believe.

Clearly your assistant appears to be mistaken as to her explanation for the reasons behind your reduction in baggage allowance is concerned, or has perhaps been misinformed by someone within British Airways. Either way, these regulations have NOT been imposed by either the UK DOT or the UK HSE.

In light of these ‘errors’ by your executive staff, might I respectfully ask you Sir to reconsider your decision for those of us who have already purchased tickets from you in good faith, and who travel after the 11th October? It is, without doubt, the only honourable thing to do, and would go a long way to restoring faith amongst your regular and loyal passengers.

I very much look forward to hearing from you.

I will keep you all info'd on the reply!
best regards
TKR
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Old 25th Jul 2006, 20:27
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hey Terry K Rumble
you wrote flying equipment... is that sports equipment?

"Passengers will be able to carry one piece of sporting equipment free of charge in addition to their checked baggage allowance. "

Maybe that i worth a try. I always have my paragliding gear in my luggage when I go on holiday. Actually now flying BA seems more attractive to me because i can take my equipment with me.
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Old 2nd Aug 2006, 11:18
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Morning All,
Below is yet another 'fudge' responce from BA ref my recent letter to them.
I am sure you will note that there is no comments made whatsoever regarding the Dept of Trade or HSE! - funny olds thing eh?

Dear Mr Rumble

Mr Walsh has asked me to thank you for your recent emails and to reply to you on his behalf. Please accept my apologies for the delay in doing so.
I am sorry you remain unhappy with the response you received from Ms Simnett. I understand you are disappointed with the new baggage allowance policy, especially as it has changed since making your booking with us. But, as explained by Ms Simnett, application of the new policy will be determined by the date of travel, and not the date the ticket was bought. So, I'm afraid we cannot meet your request for a refund of your ticket.


Please accept my assurance that we do pay close attention to what our customers tell us. So it is genuinely helpful to have your comments.
Thank you for following this up with Mr Walsh.




Best regards

Claire Alba
British Airways Customer Relations
Your case reference is:4671285


So, Mr Walsh himself thanks me eh? Yeh, I'll bet. If anyone has any other ideas, I'd be pleased to hear from you all.
Florida candle - have you had any luck yet?
Regards
TKR
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Old 2nd Aug 2006, 11:32
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Originally Posted by Terry K Rumble
Morning All,
Below is yet another 'fudge' responce from BA ref my recent letter to them.
I am sure you will note that there is no comments made whatsoever regarding the Dept of Trade or HSE! - funny olds thing eh?

[So, Mr Walsh himself thanks me eh? Yeh, I'll bet. If anyone has any other ideas, I'd be pleased to hear from you all.
Florida candle - have you had any luck yet?
Regards
TKR
Hi Terry
I'm afraid I received the same response, almost word for word.
They did however make comment on mine that if my bags are over weight, BA will provide me with another bag to put the items in. No mention is made on the letter as to whether I would pay for that!! So, yes I plan to use this as a get out clause and submit my bills to them on return.

But my thoughts are to use a luggage courier to bring my luggage back. They charge £129 for 30kg, as opposed to BA's £120 for 23kg. And yes, I will be submitting the bill for this to BA too. Refuse point blank to give BA any more of my money.

According to another forum, BA have already made some changes (at LGW) on the new hand baggage rules for First Class pax. Hopefully with a little luck the volume of complaints (which I know is huge) on checked baggage may force a slight re-think here. I'm not holding my breath though.

Again on another Forum, others have suggested Small Claims Court as the terms of our bookings have changed. It's felt by a number of people that BA would be unlikely to let it go that far. I will see what BA do with my bags on return, if they reimburse me any funds I paid, but if not that's a route I will be looking at.
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Old 2nd Aug 2006, 11:44
  #91 (permalink)  
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Originally Posted by Terry K Rumble
If anyone has any other ideas, I'd be pleased to hear from you all.
Originally Posted by FloridaCandle
They did however make comment on mine that if my bags are over weight, BA will provide me with another bag to put the items in. No mention is made on the letter as to whether I would pay for that!! So, yes I plan to use this as a get out clause and submit my bills to them on return.
I still harbour suspicions that the strategy for people who booked before the change is this: Tell them that the new baggage allowance applies. Most people will comply in order to avoid risking any arguments. The remaining pax who do not, but who comply with the baggage allowance in force at the time of booking, will be allowed the old allowance without extra charge, with charges being applied to anything over that.

This is based on what I think the strict legal position may well be: You have no claim to cancel and refund your ticket, even if BA would be in breach of contract to give you only the new allowance. Not every threatened breach of contract entitles you to cancel and get your money back, and this threat is not of the type that allows you to cancel. If, when you travel, BA only gives you the new allowance and charges you for the excess between the old allowance and the new allowance, then BA may well be in actual breach of contract as you suspect. But BA's liability for damages is exactly the excess charge paid by you.

And if you bring an amount which would be tolerated now, although outside the current allowance, you wouldn't have a leg to stand on if (after the new system comes in) you were then made to pay for the excess over the current allowance.

But, as before, this is not legal advice, get your own, etc etc.
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Old 2nd Aug 2006, 14:00
  #92 (permalink)  
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That sounds logical Globes.
  1. BA will get the majority of people to change their plans and so save carrying the weight.
  2. Those that do not will get it carried as 'good customer relations' but not publicised as this will be done on the day, pax by pax.
  3. Those that argue the case will be stonewalled until they stop or ...
  4. They start legal action (ie actually raise papers not just threaten) and then settle quickly.
Good ol' Divide and Rule.
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Old 2nd Aug 2006, 14:20
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Hi Globaliser and PaxBoy
Thanks your comments - agree with what you say. Perhaps I should have worded things a little better

All I'd want back from BA is any money I have to pay for that which would have been allowed at time of booking. Globaliser has said before, here and on other forums, that the right thing to do might be to honour those terms.

Any excess over my advised limit at time of booking, I'm fully prepared to pay for. Honest - have before, will again if necessary!
However, I may still use luggage courier if this is the case, as their terms are better - more allowed weight and door to door for just £9 more than BA.
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Old 3rd Aug 2006, 08:56
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Thank you all,
I have today received another e mail from BA, this time stating that the changes were made 'on recommendations' from the UK Dept of Trade.
A slight change from the being 'forced' upon them eh?
Either way, I have spoken to the Dept of Trade, and they have denied any involvement!
Globes, I am grateful for your input. I do NOT want a refund or to cancel my ticket, indeed, I don't want to argue with BA, but I do feel that if the supplier changes the 'goods', then the customer has the right to cancel or seek a reduction. I am sure you would not accept ordering and paying for a hire vehicle to carry 6 people, and then be provided with one that only carried 4 would you? There is little difference I feel here. Not to mention the fact that BA MUST have known something about this some time ago.
After all, I could have flown the same route, cheaper with another carrier, but I chose BA because of their (then) baggage allowance.
I will await their responce...again!

TKR
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Old 3rd Aug 2006, 14:23
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Just had an e-mail from your friend Ms O'Brien advising that the policy will also apply to BA Connect. To quote: "in line with the UK's main tour operator BAA," - sounds like BAA's new owners are planning on diversifying, or no one proof reads their publicity shots!!
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Old 3rd Aug 2006, 19:30
  #96 (permalink)  
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Originally Posted by Terry K Rumble
I do NOT want a refund or to cancel my ticket, indeed, I don't want to argue with BA, but I do feel that if the supplier changes the 'goods', then the customer has the right to cancel or seek a reduction. I am sure you would not accept ordering and paying for a hire vehicle to carry 6 people, and then be provided with one that only carried 4 would you? There is little difference I feel here.
I understand your point of view, but I don't think that that is the law.

If I have got it right, you can only cancel if the threatened breach of contract (which has not yet materialised) is of a fundamental nature; in the air travel example, it might be BA saying that instead of flying you from London to New York, they're going to substitute a ship instead. Threatening to change the amount of baggage that you can bring wouldn't be fundamental enough to allow you to cancel in advance. Your remedy is to claim compensation afterwards, if and when the breach of contract actually materialises, and only to the extent that you have suffered a loss.

If the breach of contract materialises, in the form of the 4-seater car turning up or BA saying "We will charge you for the difference between 2 x 32 kg and 2 x 23 kg, ie £120 for the extra bag that's got 18 kg in it", then you can claim compensation. In the case of the car, it's the cost of getting the other two people to the destination in comparable comfort. In the case of BA, it's the £120 extra that you have had to pay which you would not have had to pay if there had been no breach of contract.

So if my legal analysis is right, you couldn't force BA to refund the ticket in this situation. BA's probably been so advised, and that's probably why it's taking the stance that it is. You'd come a cropper if you sued BA now on the basis that you're entitled to cancel.

However, I think it's sh1t customer relations. I also think that this inflexible new baggage policy is not worthy of a major airline like BA, entitled though it is to introduce it. It's not the amount we're going to be allowed, it's how baggage will work in the future: All for BA's automated convenience, and s0d the passenger. Madness.
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Old 3rd Aug 2006, 22:49
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Hypothetical situation:

I don't like BA's new baggage policy. I decide to book my next trip to Oz with QANTAS. I go to their website and book my tickets. It turns out that I'm actually flying with BA on a QANTAS code-share. Which T&Cs/baggage policy am I subject to?
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Old 3rd Aug 2006, 23:49
  #98 (permalink)  
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If your ticket as a Qantas flight number ... then Qantas it is.

I should print off the T&Cs and get them validated, or get a formal copy from QF. In fact, take two copies along on the day as they might not give them back to you.
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Old 4th Aug 2006, 07:02
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Morning All,
Just a quick update.
Yesterday i received a letter saying just the same as it has done all along, with one slight alteration. Despite much correspondance about the UK Dept of Trade - they are now saying that I have got it wrong, and that they claim it is from the UK Dept of Transport.
Guesss who I'm just about to ring?
Will keep you info'd
TKR
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Old 5th Aug 2006, 00:03
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I feel really let down and stressed about this new bagage allowance. I work as crew for a low cost carrier who has started this bagage thing. However i was planning my wedding and wanted to go abroad and go with BA because of their bagage allowance as i used to fly home with then all the time when i worked away from base. I booked my wedding to Mauritius in April flying with BA which i picked because i'm going to need to take my clothes for 2 weeks plus wedding dress,kilts etc so need that bit extra bagage. I have had no letter and only found out via work and these forums about the changes. I called and explained that i booked well before the new rules come into affect and it was a wedding so could they please take that into comsideration. I was told no, after 11oct 23kg apply. I said they will proberly loss alot of bussiness because of this and was told they just following other airlines as everyone is doing it. I explained that i worked for a LCC as crew and know all LCC are doing it but not a company such as BA i also pointed out that Airmauritius, virgin, Emeriates are not doing it so alot of customers will go to them, i got no reply!
In april i was so happy as booked my dream wedding, looking forward to it now i just worry about how much stuff i can take and if they will let my dress into the cabin as on the websit it says no but on the phone she said yes My guests ( around 12 ) have all booked via Emeriates, already they have lost 12 bookings. I am also having to get them to take some of my wedding stuff with them as i can't. I even going to try and change the flights to emerates as i want a stress free wedding, can't be doing with cold sweats just before you get to check in and that will they wont they feeling.
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