BA new Club World Product.
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I am with BahrainLad
I agree with Bahrainlad on this one. I pay to sleep. I used to spend four nights a week as a pax on 744s. If I want to sit up and play with my computer, then BA's WTP product is fine for that.
Additional communications would be useful, but what can the office actually do? Divert the aircraft, no, but they can get me at the gate to turn around and go elsewhere.
I carry enough work onto the aircraft to last me the journey as it is thank you. Lack of oxygen and sleep is not a good place to start making corporate decisions at the speed of email.
If I recognise the handle, BahrainLad should have no trouble in "Spotting" who I am. However, I need a different handle here .
flat and horizontal beds are king. The best bit about the BA NNCW and NCW products are the rear facing seats as they get the pitch about right to make the blood go in the right direction for sleeping. When flying BA First, then I alway switch round to go head forward as it is easier to sleep that way.
Happy landings (and no jigsaw puzzles!)
Additional communications would be useful, but what can the office actually do? Divert the aircraft, no, but they can get me at the gate to turn around and go elsewhere.
I carry enough work onto the aircraft to last me the journey as it is thank you. Lack of oxygen and sleep is not a good place to start making corporate decisions at the speed of email.
If I recognise the handle, BahrainLad should have no trouble in "Spotting" who I am. However, I need a different handle here .
flat and horizontal beds are king. The best bit about the BA NNCW and NCW products are the rear facing seats as they get the pitch about right to make the blood go in the right direction for sleeping. When flying BA First, then I alway switch round to go head forward as it is easier to sleep that way.
Happy landings (and no jigsaw puzzles!)
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having travelled in both cabins, I have yet to feel jet-lagged when I get off the aircraft from a Club seat!
Just to stretch out and not have your knees and elbows knocking against someone elses during sleeping/ eating. etc is a godsend.
You could lift you legs into the air if you wish (I'm not called sixmilehighclub for nothing you know!) and theres no person in front of you to recline into your chicken casserole. The food is better and theres a wider range of higher quality drinks.
If you're clostrophobic, its far better too as you do feel theres much more space.
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Originally Posted by bealine
... having travelled in both cabins, I have yet to feel jet-lagged when I get off the aircraft from a Club seat!
Compare what you feel like during the week after flying from UK->South Africa, as opposed to UK->Singapore. When flying North-South, the perceived benefits of club class only last one day. It's the same with flying east-west, you cannot buy yourself out of circadian rhythm pain by paying more for your seat.
Now if it important to be alert on that first day after a long flight, it may well be worth paying the extra for a flat seat, so for a few business travellers it may make sense. For most business travellers you should leave a day early and fly in the back, and get a proper nights sleep in a real bed before going to your meeting. Most business travellers don't get paid enough to make that extra day in the office pay back the extra expense of the flat seat. IMHO of course
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Thought the floowing link may be useful - the company are making 8000 club class seats a month! http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/northern_ireland/4808798.stm
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Most business travellers don't get paid enough to make that extra day in the office pay back the extra expense of the flat seat. IMHO of course
Its not what you get paid, but rather the opportunity cost of that extra day.
I get charged out as a consultant at more per day than the cost of a one way club seat to the US - sadly, I don't get paid that much
Its not what you get paid, but rather the opportunity cost of that extra day.
I get charged out as a consultant at more per day than the cost of a one way club seat to the US - sadly, I don't get paid that much
Shining Example, apparently...
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Here's another way to think about it, slim_slag: Every Monday morning, you've a meeting that's an overnight flight away from home. Your boss lets you choose between Economy on the Saturday + hotel, or Business on the Sunday. You don't get paid the difference.
Would you prefer to lose every Saturday pm and Sunday, or 'only' every Sunday pm?
OK, hopefully this is an unrealistic scenario but when you travel a lot, those extra days really add up. And for the company, the fares are tax-deductible.
Would you prefer to lose every Saturday pm and Sunday, or 'only' every Sunday pm?
OK, hopefully this is an unrealistic scenario but when you travel a lot, those extra days really add up. And for the company, the fares are tax-deductible.
Paxing All Over The World
The Slag that is Slim
Indeed you cannot. One friend of mine made an annual trip Michigan to UK and never experienced jet lag. His body just did not mind the forced change of time zones and he was fine on the first day and thereafter, no delayed jet lag. (Known in the trade as Lagged Lag )
Since he was 6' 2" tall and only travelled in Y, I doubt that that the seat had anything to do with it.
... you cannot buy yourself out of circadian rhythm pain by paying more for your seat.
Since he was 6' 2" tall and only travelled in Y, I doubt that that the seat had anything to do with it.
Too mean to buy a long personal title
Originally Posted by slim_slag
Now I hate to be picky (or maybe not), but jet lag is officially classified as a circadian rhythm disorder. So you may not be so tired when you get off because you had some sleep, but if you have crossed many time zones your body clock is still out of whack and I don't think that even BA has the technology to drag your circadian rhythm along with the seat.
But what people describe as jet lag is actually a combination of a lot of different things. There's the circadian rhythm disruption, of course. But there's also lack of sleep/tiredness/fatigue, exacerbated to various degrees by stress and anxiety; there's stiffness and soreness in various body parts from sitting immobile for too long, particularly if you really can't move very much; there's the lethargy that comes from immobility/lack of exercise; there's dehydration; there's that sticky-lived-in-for-too-long feeling in your clothes; and (for some) there's just the plain common-or-garden hangover.
The benefit of the entire end-to-end premium class service is that it deals with as much as possible of that (although the hangover and dehydration stuff remains largely a voluntarily-acquired disability) and leaves you, if you want, with only the circadian rhythm disruption. That also then leaves you streets ahead of where you would be if you were flying economy.
Shining Example, apparently...
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Additional communications would be useful, but what can the office actually do?
Ideally of course, proper flatbeds and WiFi would be nice... and that's where I think BA missed a trick.
Good point about fatigue - I was fortunate enough to do LHR-JFK in a little over 3 hours, back in the good ol' days, and felt remarkably fresh after the flight.
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A couple of unusual reasons why it's worth paying the extra to travel in club, but then I did say
I doff my cap to F3G for begin able to generate £2000 a day revenue, and would take it off and bow if he could do that for 44 weeks a year. If he can, then I think his boss should let him fly business class wherever he wanted (which would no doubt be billed to the client who would have to fly in the back if he was doing the same trip). crepello has another unusual requirement, and in his case I would recommend video conferencing, which has come on in leaps and bounds in the past few years. For the price of a few club round trips you could get some very nice kit indeed.
Yes I am sure it does, but only until the economy pax has had some sleep. The cure for being tired is quite simple and effective, get some sleep. By day two I doubt you could tell the difference between them (except the club passenger would be boasting about it )
for a few business travellers it may make sense. For most business travellers you should leave a day early and fly in the back,
Originally Posted by Globaliser
(a business class seat)... also then leaves you streets ahead of where you would be if you were flying economy.
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I would recommend video conferencing, which has come on in leaps and bounds in the past few years
Of course, there's lots of work that can't effectively be done over a video link, but they ought to be used much more frequently, if only out of consideration for the environment.
Too mean to buy a long personal title
Originally Posted by slim_slag
I did say I doff my cap to F3G for begin able to generate £2000 a day revenue, and would take it off and bow if he could do that for 44 weeks a year.
In my own field, even relatively junior lawyers in City law firms will be charged out at such rates before they've had that much post-qualification experience. Equally sadly, they will only ever see a small fraction of that themselves.
Last edited by Globaliser; 18th Mar 2006 at 16:53. Reason: To clarify scope of comments about lawyers
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Originally Posted by Crepello
Here's another way to think about it, slim_slag: Every Monday morning, you've a meeting that's an overnight flight away from home.
[snip]
OK, hopefully this is an unrealistic scenario
[snip]
OK, hopefully this is an unrealistic scenario
Unfortunately, not on the real business class seats in AA and UA from JFK to LA and SFO but on the classical 737 "First Class" seats. Hahahaha "First Class", there is a good laugh . I am actually looking forward to my monthly transatlantic flight in AA First so I can get some good sleep.
Forget transatlantic lie-flat - I want trans-US seats that are not 15 years old!
FC
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Originally Posted by Pax Vobiscum
Of course, there's lots of work that can't effectively be done over a video link, but they ought to be used much more frequently, if only out of consideration for the environment.
But as you point out, limitations apply, especially when you are building up new clients. And when you are - as is often the case for me - building up a completely new team out of inexperienced people who need personal coaching and attention. Can't do that over the phone 3-6 timezones away (or more, sometimes).
As for the running comment about revenue - I wish I got 50% of my per-diem. And I am not a lawyer. Clients are happy to pay $$$$$ for many different flavors of professional expertise.
FC
Paxing All Over The World
Flying Con
Hhmm, well, it's another discussion altogether but: Working in Telecommunications for 25+ years I found that - as the technology entered every day life as fax machines/mobile phones/e-mail/internet then clients thought that they understood it and did not need an expert to tell them. Pointing out that buying a cordless phone at home and a network of 200 cordless phones in an office building was not the same thing ... was met by polite disagreement and end of sales pitch.
In other words, whereas the really big companies knew that they had complex installations and needed specialised help, at the middle and smaller end of the market, they thought that they understood it and could do without. "But it's just a telephone!" (and many other things besides). Now, all specialists say this across the years I am sure but it's just my observation of one of the changes that I (and colleagues/friends) have seen.
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"I tell you, we are here on Earth to fart around, and don't let anybody tell you any different."
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... happy to pay $$$$$ for many different flavors of professional expertise.
In other words, whereas the really big companies knew that they had complex installations and needed specialised help, at the middle and smaller end of the market, they thought that they understood it and could do without. "But it's just a telephone!" (and many other things besides). Now, all specialists say this across the years I am sure but it's just my observation of one of the changes that I (and colleagues/friends) have seen.
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"I tell you, we are here on Earth to fart around, and don't let anybody tell you any different."
Kurt Vonnegut, Jr.
Too mean to buy a long personal title
Originally Posted by FlyingConsultant
As for the running comment about revenue - I wish I got 50% of my per-diem. And I am not a lawyer. Clients are happy to pay $$$$$ for many different flavors of professional expertise.
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So,
its been a while now since this thread started.
I have travelled in Club and some of the crew that I have spoken to have seen the new seats. However they were not generally not willing to discuss details.
One did however say that the new seats were not any longer (I could do with 2 more inches) and that the front / back facing configuration was the same. They also added that apart from a few "tweaks" the new seats were essentially the same as the existing ones.
Has anyone else heard or seen any more details? Are any photos available?
its been a while now since this thread started.
I have travelled in Club and some of the crew that I have spoken to have seen the new seats. However they were not generally not willing to discuss details.
One did however say that the new seats were not any longer (I could do with 2 more inches) and that the front / back facing configuration was the same. They also added that apart from a few "tweaks" the new seats were essentially the same as the existing ones.
Has anyone else heard or seen any more details? Are any photos available?
Too mean to buy a long personal title
Originally Posted by Patrick Bateman
I have travelled in Club and some of the crew that I have spoken to have seen the new seats. However they were not generally not willing to discuss details.
...
Has anyone else heard or seen any more details? Are any photos available?
...
Has anyone else heard or seen any more details? Are any photos available?
The only other bit of detail that has leaked out is that the seats will be effectively wider, especially when in the bed mode. There's some speculation that this will be done by dropping the "armrest" on one side as the seat is reclined flat. That's a trick which is already found on some other current generation business class seats.
Various different reports of launch date - July, August or September. However, whichever one it is, we will be put out of our misery quite soon.
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Originally Posted by Globaliser
Oh, please no. I love the facing pairs - great for couples. Even if a CSD did once threaten to throw a bucket of cold water over us.
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Originally Posted by apaddyinuk
Hi Spanish Flea, unfortunately that trial has ended so we dont have any wireless onboard at present. Also Willie Walsh is on record somewhere as saying that he feels the likes of inflight wireless are standards for the next generation of longhaul aircraft such as the A380/787/747-8 etc. He does not see a sufficient business case for installing systems on the current fleet. Now, thats his opinion, make of that what you will!
Next generation? Madness, hello modern world calling. Lufthansa have been using it for about 2 years, and the list of airlines with this is now pretty big. Personally whether there is internet access on-board affects my choice of carrier, surfing the web, listening to radio stations of my choice etc makes the intolerable experience of flying almost bareable.
BTW, Air New Zealand have a variant of the VS seat also.