Bueller, Bueller. Anyone?

It is not written in a 2008 document because the cadet program did not start until 2010.

But clearly it would be written down somewhere, just call S Lutton from the AFAP if you want it in writing - they did the deal with the Airline.

By saying one cadet means one less direct entry pilot , really just stating a fact not gloating, always difficult to determine tone from the written. Like most pax I just want well trained people in cockpit don't care what background.

The reality I think is that the prospects for GA/Regional to progress to jet RPT in Australia must be remote. How many DE pilots have Virgin / Jetstar hired over past 18 months ? - I would think very few. Cobhams and the other Jet FIFOs really the only possiblities - maybe taken 50 to 80 over past 18 months.

Not a lot when you consider the number of experienced turboprop pilots in Aust/NZ

Just talking to some of my pilot friends who are working at jetstar while on lwop from qantas, the cadets are struggling to make the appropriate standards. If there is a need to allocate cadets extra simulator time and you here the story of the cadet that raised the flaps when doing a go around and the cadet selecting the wrong flap setting on approach you would think surely a pilot that has previously been flying a turbo prop for a regional airline wouldn't make such silly mistakes and require extra simulator sessions.

But if cadets pilots are meeting the minimum safety standards, why aren't they being paid at the same rate as there direct entry colleagues? Because $30k difference in salary is a huge difference.

All the various conspiracy theories about Jetstar making money are simply incorrect. In fact the program costs the company money as they get more line training, mentored program over 18 months, and have to be based in Syd/Mel/Brisbane where the training resources are. Also more sims , line checks in that 18 month mentored period.

So I think a lot of people might think well the company has all these extra training costs etc, likely insurance costs, so for the first two years a junior FO wage is appropriate. Junior FO rates isn't a new idea, even Virgin do it.

Keep in mind the training course is 18 months, half the length of the shortest Uni degree(average start salary $55k) So I think many people would think that a 17 year old year 12 leaver who does an 18 month training course , 50% shorter than his Uni destined cohorts then gets paid 30% more than them - well it really doesn't look so bad.

Interesting the different stories - I have heard to date all have successfully checked to line. New idea so it will take a while to fine tune it.

Let's face it the GA/Regional background pilots at Tiger didn't exactly cover themselves in glory with their airmanship and flying standards

Qantas cadets - hard to see how they cost the company any extra $$.

Really? Sure about that? Please do back all of that up with facts. Otherwise, I'd suggest retracting that comment.

morno

So, unless there is a new EBA or they are on special contracts, they are classed as junior FOs and paid accordingly until an ATPL is gained.

Nah, that's good enough for me. Where can I sign?

Fly boat norths posts are the best on this thread so far. It's great to see an Australian company investing in this country's youth :ok: Knowing that it actually costs Jetstar money to train these cadets yet they persist. Thank you Jetstar :D you've restored my faith in the Australian aviation industry. You could employ pilots that have built command experience in some pretty variable weather conditions etc, but as a company that embodies values, ethics, morals and just plain old honesty I value your judgement. Thankyou for sacrificing profits for our safety & well being :ok:

I am not interested in a long debate about the junior FO rates , but the fact is that the cadets are only on them for a maximum of two years. That can be confirmed by your own pilot union or the company itself or the cadets themselves. Some who joined the advanced program already had 600 hours or so, and so were able to gain an ATPL in less than two years - so moved off the junior FO onto the standard pay scales immediately.

Jack a nice post but I am thinking maybe a little tongue in cheek perhaps. I think clearly there would be some very proud parents who agree with all your words. They would be very proud of their Sons/Daughters who have just turned 20 and are checked to line as Jetstar A320 FOs , knowing also that without the funding mechanisms arranged by the company it could not have been done.

Flyboat North

I had a chat to a pilot who is very high up at aipa at work this morning. It is true that a Junior First Officer goes from junior fo to level 2 fo. But he wasn't aware of the maximum of 2 years as a junior fo... Could you copy and paste the reference to that source? Because we did flick through the current eBa and couldn't see anything about being a junior fo for 2 years max. It just said that you are a junior fo until you hold a complete atpl. He is going to get back to me on it though as he just departed on a long haul flight earlier today.

It was AFAP industrial officer Simon Lutton who did the deal with Jetstar , he has been at AFAP for a long time and can be contacted on 03 9928 5737. AFAP will also confirm that the company loan for training - that repayments do not begin until the third year - by which stage cadets have progressed to standard FO rates.

The other option is is just to call/write the company ask to speak to pilot recruitment and they will confirm it for you. It is very much publicly available information and told to the cadets at information nights etc.


Ph 61 3 8628 3418 Fax: 61 3 8660 2865
Pilot Recruitment
Level 4, 222 Bourke Street/ Melbourne / 3000
[email protected]

I take it fly boat north you are some sort of salesman or have something to do with working for Oxford aviation?

I'm going to try and contact Simon tomorrow, but are you not confusing that flexi contract with the eBa?

Flying Boat North

Can you remind us why there is a need for the cadet schemes?

Perhaps when you call Simon he could provide you with an explanation of the following which he failed to consider when he was cosying up with Jetstar Management and they conned him into dropping the federal court action on Group contracts being run by the AFAP.

1. Full time Award Salary in 2011 for Narrow Body with additions to salary for turbojet and instrument rating $87,000

2. EBA salary for junior first officer under pre-2011 EBA $57,118 (based on full credit hours which is incidentally is pro rated under Flexi-line)

3. Fair work transitional provisions state that:

Even though Jetstar has an EBA, because it was in existence before the FWA it becomes a transitional instrument and the pay cannot be less than would be due under the award. The Award does not recognise Junior First Officers.

A cadet would be paid $87,000 under the award and their payment under the EBA should be no less.

Ask Simon to explain that one!!!

More to Follow

The Kelpie

Here's what I know.

The FEE-HELP loan limit is around $93k, it fluctuates yearly, but has never been $110k for this, so I don't know where that figure comes from. The advanced element is known as phase 2, where you will undertake an A320 type rating. The amount is between $30k-$40k fully funded by Jetstar which is paid back to them via a salary sacrifice. So again, I don't know where your figure of an additional $85k comes from.

From what I know, yes unfortunately you can expect to wait an unknown amount of time between phase 1 and phase 2. However there is not a huge backlog like some people have been stating here.

You seem to think you know a lot about the topic, I'm just referring to what those at JetStar and CAE Oxford have told me. Perhaps you could link me to where you got this info from?

Future program
 

Hi guys,

Does anyone know whether or not JQ will be running another cadet intake? i.e. March 2014.

Rumour has it they are considering cancelling the program due to the poor performance of some of the current cadets.

Any help would be great!

:cool:

I don't know anything about this rumour, but if they were to stop the cadetship, it is probably because they have too many Qantas pilots on LWOP flying for jetstar that are taking up a lot of the jobs jetstar were intending to be filled by cadets.

I've heard this rumour wing boy, and that another flying organisation will get the gig if standards aren't picked up. Why can't jetstar see this as a sign and scrap it all together!!

Speaking to some of the Jetstar cadets it appears the biggest problem is that OAA has become too big and disorganised. I also guess all of the ownership changes going from GFS to OAA to CAE in a few years wouldn't help.

Apparently the Jetstar cadets needed to be very motivated and organised to get the training resources they needed to complete the course. Some of the cadets would book half a dozen flights at a time a month in advance to ensure they could get planes and instructors.

Another problem appears to be they don't allocate set instructors to students, which makes the training a bit fragmented.

Stop posting peter. Thanks in advance.

My post is based on experience and known facts.

If you have a problem with that, then too bad.

Is it just for AUS passport holder's ?

Yes, only for Australian passport holders.

Open to Australian citizens , Australian Permanent Residents, New Zealand Citizens and New Zealand Permanent Residents

There has been talks about cancelling the program and instead taking on people who are already undertaking the Swinburne Bachelor of Aviation course. I hope they don't, as the cadetship gave you some reassurance that you're going to have a career ready for you at the end of the course provided you're successful and pilot demand is still the same.

I would assume next year they will still hold the 2 courses (hopefully), but who knows really. I doubt they'll just announce that they're going to cancel it, they'll probably be more likely to do what Qantas did and just put the whole thing under review and not announce whether they'll start it up again in the future or not.

question direct entry
 

Well, i just read the previous posts and it seems normal that cadets would try to do that (booking half a dozen flights at a time to be sure to get planes and intructors...), didn't we all pretty much do the same thing in our flight school ? :p

After all, when it is our dream to become a pilot, don't we want to try to go as fast as possible thru the training program to be able to seat in a jet asap ?

good luck guys !:ok:

The Moorabbin refueller tells me Oxford had a contract for a certain number of cadetships, I think 10. Once that's exhausted Jetstar will not be renewing.

Since when is this? I was at Oxford just over a month ago and there was no talk of this.

One problem with the OAA/CAE Jetstar Cadetship is that it as an Associate Degree run thru Swinburne TAFE.

The big OAA/Swinburne course is the Aviation Bachelors Degree run thru Swinburne Uni.

Swinburne had a separate Aviation TAFE department, but this appears to have closed the the students transferred across to RMIT at Point Cook. I guess some of the other Swinburne TAFE students transferred to the Swinburne Uni course.

This leaves the Jetstar Cadet course a bit of an orphan. I can't imagine Swinburne TAFE management is enthusiastic about keeping a department open for just ten students?

JQ Cadets come under the umbrella of the University....not the Tafe.

Yep. The JetStar Associate Degree is still under the university. It's in the uni's Engineering and Industrial Science faculty.

It's under Swinburne. Unless you are under the Jetstar Asia cadet program, then that's a different story.

Hi everyone, I have applied for the Cadet intake for 2014 and have day 1 of skills assessments tomorrow. My question is: how much should I be expecting to earn during the 18 months of training? I've tried looking all over but can'tseem to find a legitimate answer.

Cheers

Hi jack

You are not employed by Jetstar during the 18 month training period and therefore you will not be paid.

Read the posts carefully - there are many graduates that are still waiting to commence employment.

More to follow

The kelpie

Thanks for the reply, so I must find a casual job ontop of studies to support myself whilst training in Melbourne...

I'd advise you to do a bit more study before you jump into something like this.

Another question you need to get actual figures on is: How much will I end up paying? These cost may be indirect as well as direct.

Don't expect any pay during your training.

You don't get paid for anything during the course by Jetstar or Oxford. You will need to find a way to pay for rent/food/living in general during the 17 months at Moorabbin. The course is tough, don't expect to find much spare time after studying to work. I'd have a fair amount of money saved up before starting the course just to help on the living side of things.

As far as course costing, FEEHELP which works like HECS, is a loan from the government which covers course costs up to a maximum of approx $90,000 per person (this amount increases by a couple thousand every year to cater for inflation). The total cost of training is approximately $120,000 for all the phase 1 stuff which is basically everything except the A320 endorsement (which is done overseas and payed for by Jetstar see below). So that means you will need to pay $30,000 to make up the total cost using the full amount from FEEHELP. This $30,000 Oxford will require you to pay over the period of 17 months training at Moorabbin, so its not one bit installment! They will require around $10,000 up front, which covers most of the text books, fuel drain, headset, aircraft manuals, checklists and some aircraft time 30hrs PIC etc. They will ask for further installments every 6 months or so. If you already have a headset and other things they give you, you can save yourself a decent amount of money by not purchasing them. They use Bob Tait PPL, CPL, IREX manuals and DAPS for instrument training, if you have current books of these you can save yourself almost $100 for each book.

The A320 endorsement costs $33,000 which is fully payed for up front by Jetstar, and salary sacrificed by yourself once you are employed by Jetstar during years 2 and 3 of your employment. (Your first year with Jetstar you don't pay anything back for the endorsement)

Your salary with Jetstar will be around $60,000 for your first year increasing to just under $100,000 from then onwards. That's why they don't deduct your endorsement cost during your first year, as your not earning that much...

So in summing up, the actual amount of money you'll need to pay from your pocket is around $30,000. The $90,000 FEEHELP is all payed by the government up front, and you'll pay that back over your working lifetime when you earn over a certain threshold which from memory is $48,000pa, again the threshold increases every year. The $33,000 endorsement is payed for up front by Jetstar so again you won't need to bear any costs from your own pocket initially until employed by them during years 2 and 3 with the company.

Hope this helps, happy flying :ok:

Jetstar Cadetship - A summary anyone?
 

Hi all,
I am 15 years old and I'm interested in this Jetstar cadet program at Moorabin a few years after I leave school. I want a summary on the cadetship, pro's and con's, because every other thread on this topic turns into a brawl between the GA and the Jet people.
And incase you want to start whining over the bad salary or something, I'm not interested in the pay once you finish the course.

Here is what I have gathered:

Pros:
All training done in 18 months.
Most likely straight into the RHS of an a320 (but no guarantee)



Cons:
Cost
Interview fees?
Low chance of getting into the school in the first place


If there are any Jetstar cadets reading this, I would love to hear from you.

Thanks

Oh dear :rolleyes:. The forum moderators will probably jump in here quickly and move this to an existing Jetstar Cadet discussion; there are many. They deteriorate into a cadet bashing argument very quickly. Regardless, this is posted in the wrong forum; it's not RPT rumour or news.

Sammk, I'd strongly recommend funding your flight training privately and working your way through GA. In the long run, the flight training will cost you half as much, and within 3-4 years you'll be back to sitting in the RHS of a A320 anyway; with MUCH more aviation experience, a far better understanding of the industry (rather than the rose-coloured glasses (some) cadets wear), a far wider network of friends in the industry, and the opportunity to travel and work in parts of this country you never thought you would; and all the great times that comes from it!

Agree with all of the above. If you really want the info, start at the start of the jetcadet thread and work your way though. All the information is there, just hidden amongst the brawling.