MERGED: Jetstar Pilot Cadet Program
 

Hi everyone, I'm 18 years old and I'm interested in the Jetstar pilot cadet program. I was wondering if anyone has completed the Jetstar cadet program or is currently undergoing the program to explain about the pros and cons of this program, and whether it's worth getting into because it does cost a lot of money.
Cheers

There are plenty of threads about this. But im pretty sure Jetstar havent ran any cadetships lately because it worked out they were unable to employ cadets at cheaper rates which was the whole aim of it.

Someone might be in the know, but im pretty sure there havent been any jetstar cadetships since 2011

I suggest you google something along the lines of "pprune jetstar cadet" to find the several threads already on here about this.
Take note of what PUT said above. They don't care about you, their just after cheap labour.
There are definately more rewarding pilot careers out there.

There is a course doing their A320 endo right now...

But isn't that from the cadets that joined back in 2011 who are just finishing their 20 months of training.

Yes, and a rare and endangered species they are.

Onya Jetstar!

There's a Jetstar course starting up now at Oxford this Friday. Lots of pros and cons

Someone might be able to answer this. When these cadets finish their a320 endo's will they be paid under the eBa agreement as a junior first officer on $58,000 then after 12 months do they get paid as a level 2 first officer on $98,000 like what happens to level 1 first officer's or do they remain on $58,000 as a junior first officer until they hold a complete atpl? :ugh: and that's before having to pay off their training costs over a 6 year period? :eek:

If these pilots get the opportunity to log icus, how many years will it take them to get 500 hours icus assuming they don't take too much leave etc?

Junior FO until you get your full ATPL, which is 2-3 years I guess while ICUS time is logged. Once you hit FO in year 2 or 3 I think thats when you start paying off your endorsement which will be 15-17k/year for two years given the endorsement is $34K. So you will be on around $60k in year 1-3 then probably $70k in year 4 (Full FO wage of $90k minus $17k endoresment payback) and $80k in year 5 as this will be your second year as an FO so you will hit level 2 FO wages (around 100k), remember to take the $17k off for the second half of the endorsement payback so you'll get 80k gross that year.

So for the first 5 years of your career after your training you're on about $60 - $80k a year and you're building up A320 time in a professional airline part of the Qantas group. Not bad for someone coming in off the street given the alternative routes available to get into the airlines as jet pilots.

On the subject of ICUS, my understanding is that for a HCAP AOC, all that is needed (company mins aside) to hold a command is the relevant endorsement, IFR quals, and ATPL.

CASA changed the mins for the ATPL a few years ago, to facilitate the cadet progression for Low Cap AOC holders. Hense the 500 hour changes. The LCAP AOC requires, amongst other things, a min 500 hours Multi command under the IFR. However, and someone correct me if necessary, I think the 250 hour command option may still be available?

Either way, under ICAO annex 1 F/O's should be able to log ICUS from the RHS provided it's for the purpose of attaining a higher class of pilots licence (ATPL). For HCAP, the 500 Multi under the IFR does not apply!

I'm a LAME so I don't really know all these things but have these atpl requirements changed? (I have a son who is interested in becoming a pilot but I'm not very keen on him to join the jetstar cadetship)

Meets aeronautical experience requirements as listed in Civil Aviation Regulations (1988) (CAR) Clause 5.172 which are 1,500 hours total flight time that includes 750 hours as a pilot of a recognised or registered aeroplane, including military aircraft. The 750 hours must include:
 250 hours PIC, or
 500 hours ICUS, or
 At least 250 hours flight time (min. 70 hours PIC, and balance as ICUS), and
 200 hours cross-country flight time (can include 100 hours PIC or ICUS), and
 75 hours instrument flight time (may include not more than 30 hours ground time), and  100 hours of flight time at night (dual night flight time is not recognised)
The remaining 750 hours may be flight time logged in aeroplanes, powered aircraft or gliders. The 750 hours may include up to 200 hours logged as a Flight Engineer or Flight Navigator.

Here is the deal:

• 60 ab-initios per year 30 each flying school
• Junior FO wage for first two years , base around 60K
• onto standard contract after two years or when you get ATPL ,whichever comes first, standard aus contract that is
• Out of pocket Oxford - around 40K
• Out of pocket CTC - around 100K
• No repayment of company loan , around 45K until year 3 of employment
• Based in either Syd, Melb , Brisbane when you graduate
• first 18 months increased checks supervision.

So 60 less positions per year for direct entry pilots , Virgin not hiring , so therefore some don't like these programs

The only people who do like these schemes are the wannabes who can get into a shiny jet faster, the airline bean counters, and the flying schools that make money from it.

Flyboat North, I reckon you're the later and work for Oxford with a comment like...

Can anyone back this up? I just can't find that anywhere in the eBa.


I agree with you slam click, I really doubt my son will try out for the jetstar cadetship. Its just unrealistic in terms of being able to afford to live on such a low income for such a long time especially after investing $140k. We have been looking at how much it would roughly cost to get a cpl, Meir, atpl at bankstown, it is quite achievable to do it for under $70k and at some other areas under $60k, I wonder who is pocketing all this extra money? Because I don't know how doing the cadetship can cost soo much more...


Just another question, do jetstar pilots have progression into qantas mainline or does it only work the other way around as in, qantas mainline pilots can join jetstar under that mou.

Jetstar Cadets are probably much more financially satisfied than any pilots in GA for the first few years- especially considering you won't cruise out the door of the flying school and into a $50k/pa job. Just get your son to PM a few pilots in Broome flying the singles and they'll tell you how "hard" living on $50-60k a year would be...

Do you get a choice of what training provider you get to train with? I met the ctc wings CEO back in 2011 on a jetstar pilot cadetship info night and he was an absolute f$&@wit. Just bull**** lie after bull**** lie that info night. I was glad a few airline pilots had attended that night and absolutely drilled him with questions. His claim was "if the government implemented that 1500 hour rule, every airline in Australia would have to be shut down, even qantas" :ugh:

Most the group that I know of have gotten based on the Gold Coast.

And there was a selection done recently.....

Back Up

• Pretty easy really just call Simon Lutton from the AFAP on 03 9928 5737 he will confirm the arrangements - knows them well as he played a role in negotiating them
• Google Jetstar Pilot EBA 2008 , junior FO around $60K base for two years then onto standard payscale of around $90K base
• Add at least 20% to base

The people who don't like these programs are:

• Those who don't get selected
• Flying schools who don't have the training contracts
• Pretty much every GA/Regional pilot in Australia who aspires to the majors - as every cadet place means one less direct entry. Tough gig for these people as QF - not hiring, Virgin - not hiring (small cadetship) , Jetstar - QF transfers and cadets only. Sorry guys flying a jet with the majors - it just ain't gonna happen for most of you
• Military pilots - who are looking to transition to an airline job - none there unless you like sand

But you forgot to mention the captains who have to babysit them.

Well done Flyboat! What course were you on?

One more reason never to fly One Star!

j3

Not on the course - sitting in a confined space with other blokes - not for me I think.

So not a pilot then?

Done a bit , not a whole lot , just wouldn't aspire to the flight deck of a Boeing or Airbus - but goodluck to those that do.

I would think that those who are trying to get an job with an rpt Jet operator in Aust, it really would be very grim wouldn't it.

How many DEs would have been hired by Virgin , Jetstar in 2011,12,13 , forget Qantas obviously - wouldn't be many would it ?

Some chances with FIFO but hardly big numbers

Probably part of the Oxford management team as suspected.

What is it about these facts that bother you.

Just call the reps from your own union, they will confirm the data.

Well I guess the questions answers itself really, slim DE hiring over the past few years in Oz. Out of interest how many DE would have been hired at Jetstar & Virgin in 2011, 12 ,13 - wouldn't be many would it ? Less than 50 ?

What is it about cutting down on direct entry recruiting (and by your posts gleefully limiting the opportunities of qualified pilots) that makes you so happy to defend it, and such a supporter of sausage factory low cost 200 hour cadets? The only beneficiary of this scheme is the airline, with probably some long term goal to supplant their current wage base with a new low entry one. Otherwise how can you argue a 200 hour cadet is any more effective as a pilot than one with more varied and longer experience?

But, every post you have put here so far marks you as a troll, so you probably are just happy to stir ****.

Just curious, are the cadets actually doing ICUS? Seeing as commands (if at all) would be many years away for these guys, the only purpose of ICUS would be to achieve a higher pay. Seems incompatible with the Jetstar model and I would be surprised if this is actually happening.

This is be a question for the actual cadets or somebody who knows rather than one of the providers spruiking their product!

I don't really get what you're talking about saying to call the union. We know what happened in the past - the company attempted to save cash buy using lower pay rates for cadets but the union helped stop it. Good on them, well done Simon and the team!

But your comments about a lack of direct entry recruitment proves everyone else's point - why hire cadets if suitable pilots are out there?

Airline recruitment comes in peaks and troughs. There was a big peak a few years back, followed by a big trough, followed about 12-18 months ago by a small peak. We're in the trough now, but things will pick up again - history proves it. So why keep going on about no hiring causing frustration - direct hiring will happen again soon and make up the majority of recruitment.

I don't care if cadets are part of a long term plan to help supplement a steady supply of pilots. What I don't like is when they're used as pawns in a game to lower conditions even further. I also don't like folk who are so naive they can't see why most of the pilot group hate the cadet schemes. I really don't like the spin doctor flying schools who talk absolute rubbish to help feather their nest.

I like to play the ball, not the man. I don't personally dislike cadets - most of them are very good people and will make great pilots. But I hate them being thrown into the deep end with certain 'experts' claiming competency based training will ensure they're suitable to handle any situation. Maybe those experts should read a number of other academic studies about CRM, in particular situational awareness, and see why we're going to end up with a hole in the ground eventually when a low hour cadet was part of the crew. Yes, experienced pilots create holes occasionally too, but they also help prevent them to a greater extent then cadets do/will while they're learning about their operating evironment (that LOFT can never fully replicate).

First officers are there to act and contribute as part of the crew, not be trained in some aviation life skills for their next 1000 hours by an airline captain that LOFT and G1000 C172s couldn't replicate during their first 250 hours of 'experience'.

Hey guys thanks for the replies gained some information. Also how much would the cadet be making after the 18 month course once they get a job at Jetstar? Does the pay increase during the six year contract?

I can imagine cadet programs being a supplement to direct entry in the short term, but i believe the endgame will ultimately look like Ryanair et al. Hopefully i am proven wrong!

Good post FTS

Especially this

and this

and this

"Year 1 to 4 - $72k to $110k
Year 5 to 6 (Promoted to Captain) - $190k +"

That's what PATS say.

I would take PATS with a grain of salt...

Zero to hero in 5 years? :eek: In your dreams! I hope not for the sake of the travelling public - another good reason not to fly Jetstar...

Whinging on here will not achieve anything. The Jetstar cadetship is legitimate otherwise it would not be happening. If a person chooses to stump up, accept the conditions & gets to sit in the right seat the rest of you should shut your mouths & make your own way in this industry. Things have changed whether you like it or not, if you don't like it, stop whinging and find a job in another industry.

Bighead redhead?
 

This goanna come back and bite you on the bum?

No mate, the industry is what it is. No amount of discussion amongst pilots is going to change it. You all can accuse each other of doing things to have caused it but in the end the employers have introduced schemes that have no shortage of takers. If there is a shortage, maybe things will change, doubt it though.

But as a cadet, you will have to deduct $15k+ per year paying off the training costs. And you will be on the junior first officer salary for 2 years too (assuming the previous comments are true).

Jack R, your comments dismay me, especially coming from someone who says the are a pilot

Hmmm, that is a very naive statement. there's plenty of evidence to show the contrary with stuff that's happened that wasn't legit or legal. Sometimes things keep happening or going on because it hasn't been tested in court. Even if it is "legal" it doesn't make it right.

That's either a selfish or defeatist attitude, I'm not sure which, I'm inclined to think selfish. Everyone has the right to protest when they think something is not right or fair.

I think it is pretty obvious as to why the cadet scheme exists and that is to undermine pilots terms and conditions. If you're happy with that, you're entitled to that opinion but don't be annoyed when others stand up for their rights.