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-   -   OzRunways 2.whoa! (https://www.pprune.org/pacific-general-aviation-questions/454139-ozrunways-2-whoa.html)

AussieNick 20th Dec 2012 23:08

I have to admit, for once, CASA have given some pretty straight forward answers in the FAQ


Frequently asked questions
What is the minimum size for an EFB?

EFBs need to be able to display information in a manner comparable to the paper aeronautical charts and data they replace. They should have a screen approximately A5 therefore, have a screen size of at least A5 i.e. 210 x 148 mm; 8.3 x 5.8 in. A PDA can only be used for calculations.

A smartphone is not appropriate or acceptable as either a primary or backup device.

What is the maximum size for an EFB?

There is currently no maximum size for an EFB.

What approvals are required for the use of EFBs?

CASA does not approve EFB hardware. An approval will only be required if the device is attached (with a mount) to the aircraft structure.

Does CASA validate the software on my EFB?

Operators that intend to use software applications for weight and balance will need to have it validated by a weight control authority (CAO100.7). Performance applications will need to be validated by a qualified person and evidence of the validation retained for CASA review if requested.

What is the legal requirement for a backup to my EFB?

For AOC holders, a backup is mandatory. It is at the operator’s discretion whether the backup is another EFB, or hardcopy charts, maps and documents. The requirements of CAR 233(1)(h) are clear in that the pilot must have the latest documents from an approved vendor readily accessible. It is the readily accessible requirement that prompts the need for backup and all pilots need to ensure how they meet that requirement in the event of a tablet malfunction.

An electronic device such as another tablet is an acceptable backup. Private pilots can use tablet devices as a primary means of in-flight documentation, as long as the documentation is from an authorised source (such as Airservices, Jepperson or Lido).

Which applications for EFBs are approved by CASA?
Currently only those sourced from the Airservices Aeronautical Information Package (AIP), Jepperson or Lido.

Is OzRunways approved by CASA?

OzRunways is not authorised under CAR 233(1)(h), although this may change in the future. Private pilots can use OzRunways for situational awareness in flight but not as a primary means of navigation.

morno 20th Dec 2012 23:48

Never heard of Jepperson, who are they?

AussieNick 21st Dec 2012 00:33

Just proves it was written by a real person, not a lawyer type.

Creampuff 21st Dec 2012 00:35

Jepperson is a subsidiary of Bowing …

baswell 21st Dec 2012 07:51

ICAO Annex 4:


2.1.8 Recommendation.— The basic sheet size of the charts should be 210 × 148 mm (8.27 × 5.82 in) (A5).
Again, A5 is a recommendation from ICAO, not a requirement. The only place it's ever made a requirement is the FAQ.

Shagpile 23rd Dec 2012 19:00

OK time for some facts:

The new CAAP is CASA's interpretation & recommendations drawn from the new CAO 82.0 Appendix9, which is the actual law. Lets ignore the CAAP for now. Here's who the new rules apply to:


If the pilot in command of an aircraft operated under an AOC uses an EFB as a means of complying, or partially complying, with paragraph 233 (1)(h) of CAR 1988, each certificate authorising operations under the AOC is subject to the condition that the AOC holder must comply with, and ensure flight crew compliance with, the applicable requirements in Appendix 9.
So the minimum screen size applies to AOC holders only. This is what it says:


it uses a screen which displays data in a size and form that is at least as easily read and used as it would be in a paper document for which the EFB would be a substitute;
I measured an iPad mini with the Adelaide ILS. It was physically 98mm horizontally when measuring the content. When printing the equivalent DAP onto a piece of paper it comes out as 126mm. The iPad mini is slightly smaller. I'd like to know whether the DAPS (in the ring binders) are the same? Measure from colour to colour horizontally, ignore any white borders.

Another question raised is whether digital zoom replaces the need for a large screen? Obviously you can't have a 1m wide EFB to read a map, but an approach plate is different as you don't want to touch it during landing. So I suspect the "size and form" law would need to be interpreted differently depending on what kind of products will be used in IFR vs VFR.

So I suspect these new rules don't affect most people on this forum. The law that everybody must comply with when carrying maps/charts is CAR233(1)(h):

the latest editions of the aeronautical maps, charts and other aeronautical information and instructions, published in AIP or by a person approved in writing, that are applicable:
(i) to the route to be flown; and
(ii) to any alternative route that may be flown on that flight;

are carried in the aircraft and are readily accessible to the flight crew.
I'd be interested to know what people consider the minimum. My flight school makes me carry a little A5 map and some approach plates for the local area.

I'd also like to see people's interpretation on what they believe "readily accessible" means. Could be an interesting discussion :)

Dexta 23rd Dec 2012 22:38

OK, Why are the maps, AIP, ERSA information not authorised in OzRunways?

"Is OzRunways approved by CASA?

OzRunways is not authorised under CAR 233(1)(h), although this may change in the future. Private pilots can use OzRunways for situational awareness in flight but not as a primary means of navigation."

Isn't the data in Oz Runways sourced directly from Air Services? I'm only talking about using the charts, DAPS, AIP and ERSA, not using any of the Flight Planning, navigation abilities.

Shagpile 23rd Dec 2012 23:04

No, not many companies are approved by CASA in the sentence that reads "or approved in writing" in CAR233. Jeppesen, Lido and Airservices are.

Yes it seems odd as the documents are sourced from Airservices however they are processes into a different format for use, for example maps are warped into Mercator (from Lambert Conformal Conic) which changes some things like a straight line is a Rhumb line instead of great circle. DAPS are converted to JPG from PDF to display quicker.

The other issue is for example if somebody got the coordinates for BLACK IFR waypoint from OzRunways and put manually into their FMS, CASA hasn't certified that we have properly stored that waypoint data to sufficient standard. For example somebody might cheap out on database storage by storing that as a 16 bit float which may cause rounding errors thus changing the position slightly (yes for you geeks, we use 64 bit doubles so there is no problems). This kind of thing was probably more of an issue in old aircraft computers where space is an issue, but not any more.

So take the stuff you need under CAR233 and your iPad can be a safety enhancer by offering all the extra info you normally wouldn't have available.

wishiwasupthere 26th Dec 2012 07:42

Has anybody gone through the process of adding the use of IPad with OzRunways into an Ops Manual? I've had a read of CAO82.0 App 9 and the CAAP but they seem to be focused on mandating the full use of EFBs across a fleet. We would be looking at adding into the Ops Manual the approval for pilots to use personal IPads with OzRunways but not mandating it's use across the fleet. I'd imagine this would then negate the need to appoint an EFB Data Manager as this would become an individual pilot responsibility.

wishiwasupthere 26th Dec 2012 08:55


How does an organisation maintain compliance by transfering the responsibility onto individual pilots?
Surely it would be no different to charts. Pilots are responsible for ensuring they are using the most current charts, thats not an organisational responsibility.

Capt Claret 26th Dec 2012 10:18

Santa bought Mrs C an iPad mini. A quick peruse of Jeppesen FD showed the charts to be easily readable. Either by scrolling full width but cut short chart, or displaying the whole chart at a smaller scale.

The only negative was the significantly slower WiFi download speed of the mini compared to the iPad IV. :ok:

Homesick-Angel 27th Dec 2012 03:38

Ive been using the ipad mini (as a backup:E) with Ozrunways for some weeks now, and it is far more stable than my old Ipad 1, causes me no issues from a "can I see it" point of view, and is superior in the spaces Im currently working in. (fits in a jeppessen IFR kneeboard). The fact that this is not yet fully approved for all VFR flight in any Operation, and limited IFR usage should only be a matter of time.

I have been to all sorts of arse end outback crazy places, and it has still been able to pick me up loud and clear and give me real time knowledge on wx, position and all my maps and charts are but a click away.

I can not see one single negative for using this technology? Can anyone else?
(Obviously it would be bad for new Nav students if they dont get the basics down pat first-but after that)

These tools effectively brings the situational awareness of glass cockpit aircraft into the majority of clapped out bug smashers that are out there in many GA organisations.

peterc005 27th Dec 2012 03:46

I believe iOS 6.02 had a fix for slow Wifi speeds.

Might need to connect your iPad mini to iTunes and download the update.

AussieNick 27th Dec 2012 03:54

With the rate that tablet technology is advancing, it shouldn't be too long before they become the forefront of any portable EFB, with regulator backing. Its easy to understand why CASA are so hesitant in allowing them to replace the paper requirement, even for private operations. That been said, I reckon their use in the commercial environment will eventually be the same a private, where you can do away with the paper requirement if you have a backup, eg the mini or another tablet device. I've had mine crash on me in flight and the reboot times are simply amazing. Worst i've ever come across was an iPad overheating in the pittlands out past Ayres Rock. But even that cooled down remarkably quick when i sat it in front of the air vent.

I can't wait for ADSB/TCAS functionality to be available on them, with the relevant hardware of course, Even a full blow MFD setup

rjtjrt 27th Dec 2012 03:57

iOS6.02 may have problems for iPad mini and iPHONE5.

iOS 6.0.2 Is Killing iPhone 5, iPad Mini Battery Life | Cult of Mac

"Apple released its iOS 6.0.2 update over-the-air to select devices earlier this week, promising a fix for a frustrating bug that could impact Wi-Fi performance. However, the update comes with a nasty problem of its own. There are reports that it has greatly reduced battery life on the iPhone 5 and the iPad mini — even when the devices go unused for long periods of time."

peterc005 27th Dec 2012 05:07

It's a good idea to disable Location Services when not required, as these chew thru the battery even when the device is not being used.

I saw an advert for an ADSB receiver that plugs into an iPad, which means (at least in the USA) you'd get weather and traffic updates on your iPad.

In Australia I guess you could probably get much the same info over 4G/LTE using the BOM web site.

OzRunways still has plenty of rough edges, but is evolving very quickly. It'll be interesting to see where it is in a couple of years.

Shagpile 27th Dec 2012 07:46


(Obviously it would be bad for new Nav students if they dont get the basics down pat first-but after that)
Why? We (yes me too) are still teaching nav like we're dropping bombs on Germany in 1942. Pilot students graduate then are cleared live to use what they want with no training in GPS at all, including its limitations.

Sure in 1973 I'd be sceptical too, but it's been now about 20 years since cheap consumer GPS's have been out. They are more faithful and safer to me than DR has ever been. Only time I've ever used DR is teaching it.


It's a good idea to disable Location Services when not required, as these chew thru the battery even when the device is not being used.
Incorrect - when you are back on the home screen, or the screen is off, the GPS will turn itself off. There's a few exceptions like apps that are allowed to do minimal processing in the background, but not OzRunways. You can tell when the GPS and gyro's are ON because a little arrow appears in the very top right next to the battery level.

peterc005 27th Dec 2012 09:30

@Shagpile - iOS is now multi-threaded, one of the main benefits being the ability to process in the background. Processing = clock cycles = power.

Apps in the background definitely access Location Services. One example of this is Find My Phone, which always runs in the background and can be used to find lost phones even when the app is in the background and the screen is locked.

A lot of apps use Location Services even when they don't really need to or are unimportant, like Facebook, FourSquare and Camera.

ARM processors are optimised for low-power, but are expected to do a lot of work with small batteries. It's important to be economical with processor load.

Shagpile 27th Dec 2012 10:54

Nope the default behaviour is to suspend the app from processing to save power.

Your app (as a developer) must register with Apple to be able to perform any background processing and Apple app reviewers take a dim view on apps that request this but don't really need to. Even then, the whole app isn't running, just very small portions. For example 'Runkeeper' would log your positions but it wouldn't do any graphical work.

Again, OzRunways hasn't registered for background processing so when you turn off the screen or quit to the home-screen the app is suspended (paused).

When the iPad detects the GPS is no longer required it will turn it off after a few seconds and the little arrow in the top right disappears indicating this.

Read this:
iOS App Programming Guide: App States and Multitasking

http://developer.apple.com/library/i...el_flow_2x.png

peterc005 27th Dec 2012 11:21

I wasn't talking about Ozrunways, I meant the many other apps that use Location Service.

Goto: Settings > Privacy > Location Services to get a list of the apps using Location Services and disable what is not important to save battery life. There are more than 20 on my iPhone.

My new iPhone 5 had a problem with bad battery life and it turned out to be mainly due to a single poorly written app for social networking. I deleted the app and now the battery lasts 24 hours rather than 2 hours.


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