210's tips and tricks
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Doh!! THere is nothing I can say ofter what TIMMEEE and MAINFRAME have said.
The 210 is arguably the best single ever made. That is why they continue to appreciate in value and still grace the aprons of many airports in areas where the GA industry is more than training. WHere the serious work is, you find some very valued 210's.
Business aside, pilot satisfaction for me is unsurpassed in these A/C. THere is noting quite like flying a 210. I may be out numbered but I still must say, I would rather fly a 210 than a baron. THey are a grand old plane.
Treat her like the lady she is and develop a mutual respect with this A/C, and you will have many memorable hours. I liked the line in one of the other posts, "Very unforgiving when provoked". It is true, if you are flying one of these then you are probably a commercial pilot, and by defignition, a professional. You need to act in a professional way, and you will be respected for doing so, by your aircraft and other pilots (the ones that count, not the cowboys).
Just one other thing, the best way to tell a true professional in a 210, she/he will taxi with low power, no breaks, and the stick full back at all times, even on allegedly clean tarmack. Leave the wear and tear, and prop damage, to the Wannabe's, PPL's, and the owner/pilot doctors with more money than sense.
Happy landings.
The 210 is arguably the best single ever made. That is why they continue to appreciate in value and still grace the aprons of many airports in areas where the GA industry is more than training. WHere the serious work is, you find some very valued 210's.
Business aside, pilot satisfaction for me is unsurpassed in these A/C. THere is noting quite like flying a 210. I may be out numbered but I still must say, I would rather fly a 210 than a baron. THey are a grand old plane.
Treat her like the lady she is and develop a mutual respect with this A/C, and you will have many memorable hours. I liked the line in one of the other posts, "Very unforgiving when provoked". It is true, if you are flying one of these then you are probably a commercial pilot, and by defignition, a professional. You need to act in a professional way, and you will be respected for doing so, by your aircraft and other pilots (the ones that count, not the cowboys).
Just one other thing, the best way to tell a true professional in a 210, she/he will taxi with low power, no breaks, and the stick full back at all times, even on allegedly clean tarmack. Leave the wear and tear, and prop damage, to the Wannabe's, PPL's, and the owner/pilot doctors with more money than sense.
Happy landings.
Last edited by 3RAR; 23rd Apr 2005 at 04:25.
Mate of mine almost killed himself and his family in a 210 at Mataranka. He was new to the aircraft and decided to go around after bouncing it.
He was unprepared for the yaw- which took him into the trees. Aircraft written off but family unscathed. He hasn't flown since.
He was unprepared for the yaw- which took him into the trees. Aircraft written off but family unscathed. He hasn't flown since.
Bagg compartment
One to add...
A stage of flap will direct the airlflow over the baggage compartment and aerodynamically 'shut the door' !
Still would circle back, land, have a look etc....
A stage of flap will direct the airlflow over the baggage compartment and aerodynamically 'shut the door' !
Still would circle back, land, have a look etc....
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Old DJ's never die
When an old DJ just wants to play the music "he likes" instead of what the crowd wants to hear it is time to give the game away.
Ever heard the song agout re-inventing the wheel?
Food for thought.
TMX
Ever heard the song agout re-inventing the wheel?
Food for thought.
TMX
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Its a flash one bloke!
The Cessna 210 - Tips and tricks:
Always check hydraulic fluid in your pre-flight, if there is none you won’t be able to get the gear down with even a manual gear extension.
The one green light for the gear shows the status of only the nose wheel. Amber up, green down and locked.
Make sure after take-off the gear motor does not continue to run, it may well catch fire by overheating. If this happens pull the circuit breaker, but remember to reset before landing and visually confirm the mains are down.
You may hear the gear pressurize in cruise occasionally, this is normal.
With full fuel, you will almost certainly see it dripping from the overboard vents on the wingtips when taxiing = normal.
Climb at 110-120 kts 25”, 2500RPM, fuel flow top of the green. Crz 23” or full throttle 2400RPM and fuel flow 90 lbs per hour, Descent no more than 23”, then decrease by 1” per minute to arrive in the circuit at approx 20”. Best ROC 97, Best Angle 72, X wind 21. Downwind 120kts gear down, flaps 10 approx 20”, base 85-90kts, flap 20, approx 17”, final 80-85kts, flap 30, approx 15”. Vref 75-80, 72 short field.
Should be indicating about 160 in descent from 7-9 grand. May require a few miles to level out in a M/L model as first flap is 150 kts and gear 140. N model is 165 for both. Plan your descent and treat it like it is turbocharged. The 300hp donk will thank you.
Hauls quite a load, load heaviest in the front to lightest in the back. With an aft C of G it will be quite “pitchy”. Watch for a bit of a porpousing motion after take-off when “right on max take-off weight” with a rear c of g. In this situation use a “central” climb elevator position and trim to control pitch – Definitely not in a flying manual, but it works well.
In Summer and hot thermal conditions, you may want to select a stage of flaps and/or the gear down at top of descent. This will give a much smoother ride on descent and will stop the whole airframe flexing (no wing spar except for G model) in turbulence.
8-9 Quarts of oil is good. 10 will decorate the cowl with stains.
Centre zero ammeter. Watch for alternator failures!!! During the run-up, turn on the landing and taxi lights and check the needle, flicks back a fraction but holds the load to confirm normal operation. If the alternator has failed, these lights will show quite a significant discharge. Also during the run-up, depress the green gear light to confirm the gear warning horn is functioning correctly.
Also during a run-up one-day, turn the master and alternator off. The gauges you are left with is all you will have if you have an alternator failure and run the battery flat. Very important if you are flying in marginal VMC in the NT wet season for instance. You will have no radio, navaids, XPDR, Fuel Gauges, Oil temp etc and No AUX FUEL PUMP! Oil Pressure and Fuel Flow will still work.
A quick visit to the ATSB website will show more 210 accidents than you can poke a stick at – Have a good read. Remember to be sensible, don’t do beat-ups, stall turns or arrive in the circuit at 170kts etc etc. It’s a great aircraft and the foundation of most GA pilots charter career. Enjoy.
Always check hydraulic fluid in your pre-flight, if there is none you won’t be able to get the gear down with even a manual gear extension.
The one green light for the gear shows the status of only the nose wheel. Amber up, green down and locked.
Make sure after take-off the gear motor does not continue to run, it may well catch fire by overheating. If this happens pull the circuit breaker, but remember to reset before landing and visually confirm the mains are down.
You may hear the gear pressurize in cruise occasionally, this is normal.
With full fuel, you will almost certainly see it dripping from the overboard vents on the wingtips when taxiing = normal.
Climb at 110-120 kts 25”, 2500RPM, fuel flow top of the green. Crz 23” or full throttle 2400RPM and fuel flow 90 lbs per hour, Descent no more than 23”, then decrease by 1” per minute to arrive in the circuit at approx 20”. Best ROC 97, Best Angle 72, X wind 21. Downwind 120kts gear down, flaps 10 approx 20”, base 85-90kts, flap 20, approx 17”, final 80-85kts, flap 30, approx 15”. Vref 75-80, 72 short field.
Should be indicating about 160 in descent from 7-9 grand. May require a few miles to level out in a M/L model as first flap is 150 kts and gear 140. N model is 165 for both. Plan your descent and treat it like it is turbocharged. The 300hp donk will thank you.
Hauls quite a load, load heaviest in the front to lightest in the back. With an aft C of G it will be quite “pitchy”. Watch for a bit of a porpousing motion after take-off when “right on max take-off weight” with a rear c of g. In this situation use a “central” climb elevator position and trim to control pitch – Definitely not in a flying manual, but it works well.
In Summer and hot thermal conditions, you may want to select a stage of flaps and/or the gear down at top of descent. This will give a much smoother ride on descent and will stop the whole airframe flexing (no wing spar except for G model) in turbulence.
8-9 Quarts of oil is good. 10 will decorate the cowl with stains.
Centre zero ammeter. Watch for alternator failures!!! During the run-up, turn on the landing and taxi lights and check the needle, flicks back a fraction but holds the load to confirm normal operation. If the alternator has failed, these lights will show quite a significant discharge. Also during the run-up, depress the green gear light to confirm the gear warning horn is functioning correctly.
Also during a run-up one-day, turn the master and alternator off. The gauges you are left with is all you will have if you have an alternator failure and run the battery flat. Very important if you are flying in marginal VMC in the NT wet season for instance. You will have no radio, navaids, XPDR, Fuel Gauges, Oil temp etc and No AUX FUEL PUMP! Oil Pressure and Fuel Flow will still work.
A quick visit to the ATSB website will show more 210 accidents than you can poke a stick at – Have a good read. Remember to be sensible, don’t do beat-ups, stall turns or arrive in the circuit at 170kts etc etc. It’s a great aircraft and the foundation of most GA pilots charter career. Enjoy.
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Whats wrong with arriving in the circuit at 170kts? Thats the only thing that makes that silly rule about doing three legs of a circuit slightly bearable!...Traffic permitting and all that sort of common sense stuff.
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If you are flying a C210 in a charter capacity in GA, you will most likely be operating to/from CTAF's. Some would consider it good airmanship to slow the a/c to a speed approx Va (110 for the 210) before arriving in the circuit. This allows for full deflection of the control surfaces to see and avoid hitting a/c that are not radio equiped, have not made a call or are simply avoiding paying landing fee's! Maybe im just boring!
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Yeah I get your point....I did all my GA stuff belting around communities up north and there were basically no nordo's up there. Everyone was charter with a radio, most everyone was hitting down-wind at max-chat too heh heh, getting all misty eyed now.
cjam
cjam
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You haven't lived until you've done a beat-up at Belburn (to show the chopper pilots how it's done) strapped in a blue and white C210, nix pax... 2ft off the deck... full noise ...big smile.
Fly it like ya stole it!!!
Fly it like ya stole it!!!
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whats with all the "fly it like you stole it" ?? how many aircraft have actually been stolen and flown irresponsibly and dangerously?? unlike car thieves.......
maybe that why we now all need to chain and weld our aircraft to every structure at an airfield!!
maybe that why we now all need to chain and weld our aircraft to every structure at an airfield!!
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Do not underestimate its capacity to kill you in an instant. Some very experienced 210 drivers will back me on this one.
The 210 is a pussy-cat once you're used to it. I believe it is a handful for the average PPL, though. Stunfish's 210 is the 3rd I've heard of lately to be detroyed by a PPL.
All the 210s I have flown had gear-doors which are higher-maintenance but since it wasn't my bill, I liked having them. Seems a bit GAY not to have gear doors on a retractable.
As for the baggage locker open in flight secnario, flap sounds good but it can be done without.....
Simply lower the nose (at a suitable altitude) and increase speed a little to lower the AoA. The RAF will lower the door to the horizontal, then with a little left-yaw, the two-way spring system will allow the door to slam closed. Easy!! Saved me from an embarrassing RTB at least once.....
210s are the goods. The 206 has that on-its-arse feel with nose high and high instrument combing. I could never understand why Cessna build their a/c like that. Maybe they want it to feel like a tail-dragger....
Definition of GA:
Night "VFR" takeoff in a C210L from a black-hole and with a venturi for vac source. No horizon until in the air. The boss said to do it so......
What fun.
Why do they call it a Centurion.....
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Idiot
Frickman,
Until you lose a close mate or seriously injuring or killing yourself doing exactly like you mention.....then you may realise the seriousness of my reply.
If you want to fly an aircraft as you mention....please do it at safe height in an aerobatic aircraft!
Until you have to pull a mate out of a buring wreck with 95% 3rd degree burns....you will not understand just how stupid those actions are!
The unexpected can and does occur!! We are not invulnerable!!
Please don't joke about it!
Until you lose a close mate or seriously injuring or killing yourself doing exactly like you mention.....then you may realise the seriousness of my reply.
If you want to fly an aircraft as you mention....please do it at safe height in an aerobatic aircraft!
Until you have to pull a mate out of a buring wreck with 95% 3rd degree burns....you will not understand just how stupid those actions are!
The unexpected can and does occur!! We are not invulnerable!!
Please don't joke about it!
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Spoilher,
Sorry to hear about your mate, no-one should go like that. Almost any piece of machinery will kill you fast if you don't respect it.
As for joking about things that'll kill me, well thats an ozzie trait that I hope none of us lose.
Lets put things into perspective, low level flying up a runway in a controlled situation in a precise manner is far from aerobatics.
As for barrel rolling a C210 at low level over a runway........
Sorry to hear about your mate, no-one should go like that. Almost any piece of machinery will kill you fast if you don't respect it.
As for joking about things that'll kill me, well thats an ozzie trait that I hope none of us lose.
Lets put things into perspective, low level flying up a runway in a controlled situation in a precise manner is far from aerobatics.
As for barrel rolling a C210 at low level over a runway........
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Yeah I once barrel-rolled a 210. No big deal. Anything can be barrel-rolled.... except an Airbus.
As for doing a beat-up "at a safe height in an aerobatic aircraft"....
What's the point in doing a beat-up at a safe height????? It would then cease to be a "beat-up" wouldn't it??
Do you need an Aerobatic aircraft to fly in a straight line these days?????
Hey Frickman, when and where did this happen with the 95% 3rd degree burns (non-survivable I presume.....) and the wreck?
Maybe the rest of us can learn from it.
As for doing a beat-up "at a safe height in an aerobatic aircraft"....
What's the point in doing a beat-up at a safe height????? It would then cease to be a "beat-up" wouldn't it??
Do you need an Aerobatic aircraft to fly in a straight line these days?????
Hey Frickman, when and where did this happen with the 95% 3rd degree burns (non-survivable I presume.....) and the wreck?
Maybe the rest of us can learn from it.
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"As for joking about things that'll kill me, well thats an ozzie trait that I hope none of us lose."
Fully agree. It's a wonderful trait.
Lets not get too precious. I think they are fantastic when done right. A good beat up brightens up my entire week weather it was me who did it or a co-worker or someone I don't know , it doesn't matter.
A well planned beat up doesn't have to be dangerous, like Frickman said "low level flying up a runway in a controlled situation in a precise manner is far from aerobatics".
The key is planning it and not deviating from the planned heights etc...if you think "this should be lower or faster or a bit further to the left then fine.....adjust your next beat up, not the one you're doing at the moment. Do it at an appropriate time and place....if there is a crowd of mates drinking beer by the airport donga.....it's not a good time. Sun just coming up and only your off-sider from work draggin the other plane out of the hangar? Sweeeet! If you ever get the urge to do a beat up on the spur of the moment....don't. Think about it and plan it (only takes a minute to assess the conditions and run through it in your head).
Thats what I reckon anyway.
PS only do it when you're by yourself
do it so that if you crash you only kill yourself.
PPPS and yes, before anyone asks or gets upset,I have been witness to a colleague crashing from a beat up over the field, it was fatal,, he tried to make it more exciting half way through, changed his plan and that was that. Just use ya noggin and don't get excited.PPS If you are not very experienced and lack confidence or have too much of it then disregard all of the above. beat ups are for boys.
cheers.
Fully agree. It's a wonderful trait.
Lets not get too precious. I think they are fantastic when done right. A good beat up brightens up my entire week weather it was me who did it or a co-worker or someone I don't know , it doesn't matter.
A well planned beat up doesn't have to be dangerous, like Frickman said "low level flying up a runway in a controlled situation in a precise manner is far from aerobatics".
The key is planning it and not deviating from the planned heights etc...if you think "this should be lower or faster or a bit further to the left then fine.....adjust your next beat up, not the one you're doing at the moment. Do it at an appropriate time and place....if there is a crowd of mates drinking beer by the airport donga.....it's not a good time. Sun just coming up and only your off-sider from work draggin the other plane out of the hangar? Sweeeet! If you ever get the urge to do a beat up on the spur of the moment....don't. Think about it and plan it (only takes a minute to assess the conditions and run through it in your head).
Thats what I reckon anyway.
PS only do it when you're by yourself
do it so that if you crash you only kill yourself.
PPPS and yes, before anyone asks or gets upset,I have been witness to a colleague crashing from a beat up over the field, it was fatal,, he tried to make it more exciting half way through, changed his plan and that was that. Just use ya noggin and don't get excited.PPS If you are not very experienced and lack confidence or have too much of it then disregard all of the above. beat ups are for boys.
cheers.
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quote from "OneBall2"
"Yeah I once barrel-rolled a 210. No big deal. "
And anyone can stuff it up too, put the aeroplane away and not tell anyone. Then it becomes the next blokes problem. So instead of killing yourself you kill your mate. Aviation needs less w@nkers like you. BTW did you learn in that big school at Moorabin where the instuctor course culture has guys talking of looping warriors? If i see a non aerobatic aircraft in any of these manouvoures be warned i will report it and you will lose your licences (unless your name is Bob Hoover). Why? Because I might be the next one to fly the aircraft.
"Yeah I once barrel-rolled a 210. No big deal. "
And anyone can stuff it up too, put the aeroplane away and not tell anyone. Then it becomes the next blokes problem. So instead of killing yourself you kill your mate. Aviation needs less w@nkers like you. BTW did you learn in that big school at Moorabin where the instuctor course culture has guys talking of looping warriors? If i see a non aerobatic aircraft in any of these manouvoures be warned i will report it and you will lose your licences (unless your name is Bob Hoover). Why? Because I might be the next one to fly the aircraft.
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scrambler
Thank you for that.
This thread was started with a request for more information to enable, hopefully safer and more professional operation of a particular type.
Most but not all responses provided professional views.
There is NO section of the POH that refers to the proper execution of beats up, aerobatics are specifically excluded and I would refer your attention to the section on turbulence, airspeed and full control deflections for some reflection on the consquences of "cranking" or "losing" it.
These Forums are for Professional Pilots the ranks of whom OneBall2 apparently does not belong.
He will not be mixing it with us anymore.
W
Thank you for that.
This thread was started with a request for more information to enable, hopefully safer and more professional operation of a particular type.
Most but not all responses provided professional views.
There is NO section of the POH that refers to the proper execution of beats up, aerobatics are specifically excluded and I would refer your attention to the section on turbulence, airspeed and full control deflections for some reflection on the consquences of "cranking" or "losing" it.
These Forums are for Professional Pilots the ranks of whom OneBall2 apparently does not belong.
He will not be mixing it with us anymore.
W