Maintenance releases

[Blue Hauler]

…but in the regs somewhere, yes I'm too bloody busy & lazy to go find, it states that you can run over your M/R if positioning the aircraft for maintenance…

Tut Tut Nasa,

An old tyre kicker like you should be able to quote chapter and verse the relevant provisions for getting caught out in such an untenable situation, without falling back on Torres!

Torres

I’ll bet a shrewd old dog like you with such fine tuned accounting skills could go straight to your reference system pertaining to the provisions of Special Flight Permits. Surprising that some of these pilots (?) can’t do the same.

[Wagit]

It is disappointing that pilots have trouble understanding what is written on a Maintenance release.

Because when you really look at this issue, a maintenance release is the method by which the pilot can determine whether or not the aircraft is serviceable and if the required maintenance has been carried out.........

Just image the problems pilots would have if they had to determine the serviceability of and aircraft by looking at the aircraft log books

Blue Hauler has hit the nail on the head:

"A maintenance release is valid to the hours/date of expiry, whatever comes first. End of story. Beyond that time/date the aircraft is without a valid maintenance release."

If you are foolish enough to fly an aircraft with an expired maintenance release, because you think you can add 10% for ferry time etc etc etc... then I suggest you read the Civil Aviation Act, section 20AA subparagraph (3). After reading this section I suggest you take note of the penalty, 2 years imprisonment.

There are not many things that you can do wrong in aviation which can land you in the slammer.................... but this one can
:

[THREEGREENS]

Where's the problem.........?

Blue Hauler, Caampeeee and Wagit got it right............if it ain't on the MR, then IT AIN'T ON! end of story. If your maintenance is being done under some other approved arrangement, then it will be reflected on the MR accordingly. This chap said the MR expired at x-date and x-time and the time was due up in 4 hours....then the MR expires in 4 hours.
I personally know of a parachute operation that overran the MR by 40 (YES, FORTY) hours and convinced the pilot that because they hadn't been making entries onto the MR for the past 2 weeks, then all was legit and above-board. Funnily enough, the maintenance organisation had a slightly different view and issued the new MR with an expiry time of only 60 hours!
Risked everybody's licences for absolutely nothing.....except a big law suit had everything turned to custard. Funny thing; they're still in business today.

[Menen]

First of all any extension to scheduled 100 hourly maintenance requires CASA approval. Ask the operator to show you that approval if he is trying to monster you into flying beyond the sheduled time. Secondly, be immediately suspicious of any maintenance release that is a clean sheet ie no recorded defects.
There are owners out there - often LAME's that own their own aircraft, who go ape if a defect is endorsed on their maintenance release. Regardless of how badly maintained the aircraft is, a clean maintenance release keeps the owner happy. One LAME in the Parafield area is well known for his habit of writing off a defect written by a pilot as "entered in error". Keeps CASA happy and stops pilots from writing up more defects as they know its a waste of time.

[axiom]

NOW LISTEN VERY CAREFULLY (or read carefully),

"The Phelan Papers" especially with regard to "dodgy" MR's being issued by people with a vested interest in the aircraft's sale / operation.

Paul Phelan can be contacted via Australian Flyin Magazine or Yaffa publishing Company.

If you are seriously concerned enough to read further, talk to Jim Dawson (Boyd Munroe's Airsafety), or Bill Hamilton, (AOPA) VP, but Paul does the job nicely.

Some download, last count about 150 pages, but worth it.

A MR "CAN NOT" be used to attest to the airworthiness of an aircraft.

(Mick Toller, Dr Paul Scull Power, John Anderson, Minister for things regional and flying)...

You think I am kidding ????????? I kid you not !

[Travelling Toolbox]

All good points people and an interesting read, but I am left wondering why the M/R has become such a mysterious document?

A few jumbled up thoughts in no particular order from someone who has issued the odd one or two (hundred) M/Rs:-

The M/R has an expiry date and TTIS clearly spelt out in the appropriate boxes for these entries, THAT’S IT. No other options people on the standard 12months/100hrs, if that is indeed what is written in those boxes. If the aircraft is approved to fly other than a 100hrs/12months, then this variation would be entered in the expiry boxes not the 100hrs/12 months. Under normal operations (100hrs/12 months), the M/R ceases to remain in force. Exceedance of either is not a legal option. One can ferry with a permit at CASA’s discretion, but these usually carry caveats like:

“Essential crew only”
“Most direct route terrain and weather permitting”
And are usually issued to return a busted bird to the nearest nest for maintenance/repair/test, so don’t expect to make money/hire out your beast under these circumstances.
Again if a permit applies, its details too will be entered on the M/R “clearing the aircraft for a (once only) flight. The pilot will usually be given a copy of the permit along with the M/R.

There is also a CAR that states “thou shall not commence a flight the duration of which knowingly exceeds the validity of the M/R” (or words to that effect) so this is not an excused to get a permit.


The LAME (coordinator) signing the M/R for Release to Service is duty bound to enter ALL maintenance known to fall due prior to the expiry of the M/R (T/X components, AD’s, re-weighs etc.).

Now, if the aircraft is maintained to a system of maintenance then:
A) It is entirely possible that it may be approved by CASA to run to a longer TIS interval between periodic maintenance visits.
B) The system the aircraft is maintained under, which it is also released to service (RTS) to, is also entered on the M/R. This (and the different expiry entries) would be tip offs to the would be aviator that he has legitimate approval to commence and complete the flight when the M/R has exceeded 100hrs TIS.
C) These systems generally only apply to Class A aircraft, but there is nothing stopping a Class B to be maintained to this standard and approved to fly beyond 100hrs.

What I am saying in a nutshell I guess, is that all the info you need to determine how long the bird can LEGALLY be flown between visits to people like me, is there in front of you in the “expiry” and “maintenance in accordance with” boxes.

TT

[Torres]

nasa and Blue Hauler. Sorry, I wasn't following this thread and only just discovered Blue Hauler's PM.

"Torres will be able to answer this better than I, but in the regs somewhere, yes I'm too bloody busy & lazy to go find, it states that you can run over your M/R if positioning the aircraft for maintenance IAW the maintenance system the aircraft is being operated to."

We originally had the C208B's on Cessna's approved 400 hour maintenance cycle, later reduced to a 300 hours approved Class A maintenance system with certain component TIS voluntarily reduced - e.g. fuel nozzel change at 400 hours and boroscope inspections increased as this was cheaper than hot section replacement!

The intermediate checks had some flexibility - return to home maintenance base only I think - but the total 300 hour maintenance cycle had no flexibility.

It is my understanding that an MR hours or time in service is inflexible. Run out of hours away from home base and you will need a CASA Permit to Fly to get home.

As it should be!

[nzer]

To Blue hauler...

Yes, in many aviation jurisdictions, a medical and an I/R have a "30 day" grace period, ie, you can renew up to 30 before and up to 30 days after the calendar date - this "grace period" is not shown on the certifiacte, but provision for it is contained in the State's Rules - not relevant to the MR debate as such, but a date on a piece of paper is NOT the sole determinate, in all cases, of expiry of an MR or equivalent. The proposed CASA rules, more internationally aligned and up to date, will in fact be reflecting this approach.

[gaunty]

Torres

As usual spot on.

Apart form all of that, it's just smart to get your motorcar serviced at least every 10,000km even if it's just an oil change, and most manufacturers reckon 20,000km is way time for a real good lookover.

And that is for the modern 2003 designed vehicle, anything older required much shorter intervals if you were to keep it in good shape.

This is reflected in the maintenance schedules of aircraft manufacturers as the the technology gets better, viz the C208.

Considering a C172 does around 18,000km between services, it's no bad thing to have a good look.
Chieftain = 25,600km, C402 = 28,800km

Point being, if the regulator didn't make it mandatory and 100 hrs = 100 hrs, then most would treat their aircraft like they treat their cars and a drive along any road in town should convince you why that is not a particularly good idea.

And I dare anyone to have issue with the 'but it's different it's not travelling on the roads" and the air is "softer" routine.

[bush mechanics]

Speaking as an engineer and a cpl licence holder ,our aircraft are maintained too class A standards and we have our own maintanance system,For our c210s we dont have any provisions for +- hours on due items.M/R is valid for 12 months and 100 hours from date of issue,In addition any A/Ds due within that period either calander date or a/c ttis.Our twin fleet we have a +-5 hours on due inspections(not A/Ds)50hrly/100hrly/150hrly and 200hrly.As you can see we have a 12 month M/R and 200 hours life.Our maintance system is made from manafactures time life limit checks and then the whole package is approved by CASA
On the other hand we maintain a number of private aircraft to schd 5,which is the casa system,In addition too this you also have too incorperate the manafactures time/limit checks.The M/Rs we issue with theses aircraft are valid for 12 months and unlimited hours,aslong as you adhere to all A/Ds and manafactures time/life limit intervals. On a few occastion owners have run out of calander time and we have had to get special flight permits too get the aircraft back too there maintance base.

Soo if it isnt on the M/R dont do it no matter what anyone tells you.Its the resposibility of the PIC too check the M/R prior too each flight too make sure nothing is due or going too fall due during next flight.The LAME and Maintanace controller are responsible that all info on the M/R is correct and acurate.Soo if something is overflown due too the wrong hours written on M/R the lame cops it then the maintanance cotroller.Not the pilot because he/she opperrated the aircraft within the limits of the M/R

[Wheeler]

OK, that's clear 100 hours is 100 hours - no worries about that. But someone back there said that a 50 hourly (say for a C172 in Charter) can be carried out at 45 - 55 hours. Is that right in the 'standard' CASA system?

[Capt Claret]

NZER

I'm not familiar with reg other than the Australian ones.

Australian CAR (1988) 6.14 (4) states in part:

Subject to subregulation (5) and regulation 6.15, a medical certificate remains in force for the period set out on the certificate, being a period of not more than ......

Subregulation (5), referred to above, states:

A medical certificate expires:
(a) at the end of the period set out on the certificate; or,
(b) if CASA extends the period during which the certificate remains in force under regulation 6.15 - at the end of that extended period; or,
(c) if a new certificate is issued to a person who holds a current medical certificate and the appropriate day (essentially the day of issue by medico ... my note) for the new certifficate occurs before the current certificate is due to expire under paragraph (a) or (b) - on the appropriate day of the new certificate.

CAR 6.15 outlines the conditions one can use to apply for the extension of valitidity of a medical certificate.

No where is there a 30 day, or any grace, on a medical certificate.

[Tinstaafl]

I think s/he was referring to the concept, and not that it specifically applied to Oz medicals & ratings - although it used to!

It certainly applies to UK medicals & rating renewals.

Why CAA/CASA chose to remove this beneficial form of the rule is beyond me...

[AMRAAM]

MR are different for diff acft

Hello all.

Firstly, the old hands are deffinetly right aboout the overlaying regs and the intent of the rules.

But as we have seen from the guys posting about thier Company or aircraft, that there are may different CASA approved methods in use.

In other words NO TWO AIRCRAFT ARE necessarily the SAME, with reguard to thier CASA approved maintenance system.

SO the the question is HOW DO YOU KNOW which system is in use, the answer is, it's on the MR. So you must read it and TRUST in it to be correct. Yea I know there are mistakes made, after all we are human, and of course the other rule also applies, that to REALLY SCREW up takes a COMPUTER based system.
If a mistake is made, do your best to sort it out with the Chief Engineer, NOT by yourself.

So rule No 1 says - IF it aint on the MR then you can't do it. or if it is on the MR then you have to follow the limits imposed. (If its an error, then its a limiting error)

Rule no 2 says - READ THE BLOODY MR, and understand it for each INDIVIDUAL aircraft you fly. Always remember that aircraft A and aircraft B may different in the way they are approved for maintenace, and you will not get caught.

As for the 50 hourly question, well rule 1 and 2 apply. If the MR says 50 hourly due at XXX, then it is, and no you can't.

But if it says, 50 Hourly due at xxxx (Optional), well gues what, you can.


PS STOP trying to second guess the Chief engineer or the Approved maintenace system, it makes you look like a pack of wallys.

[Pitch Pull]

+/- 10%?

I think it should be + Zero, - anything. (As early as you like but never late)

Pitch

[Dehavillanddriver]

Another interesting myth is the engineers telling people that the daily does not last 24 hrs, but can be extended to 30 hours - and then dispatching the aeroplane.

The reality is that the aeroplane (under our system of maintenance) has a daily that lasts 24 hours.

It used to be able to be extended to 30 hours IF the aeroplane was overnighting at a port where engineering facilities are not available. (I say USED TO because I am not sure if that provision is still available). It was this clause that the engineers were using to try and con pilots.

Why do I bring this up?

Because flying without a valid daily is the same as flying with no maintenance release.

AND because the engineers are sledging pilots for not doing the pilot exterior inspection correctly.

People in glass houses......

[GA Driver]

M/R's. . .

I read the full post but. . .

I spoke to the LAME who maintains all our company aircraft (No affiliation with the company/owner whatsoever) He too said to me that the aircraft only has 100 hours but if it was delayed (ATC, Headwind etc) that it was ok but only under those circumstances.
Seeing that he has no affiliation with the company, I would have thought that he would want our aircraft in the door asap for the $$$ aspect and has no reason to tell me otherwise.

Secondly... If im out on a long stint that planned to fit in with the 100 hours of the MR and I did get delayed due ATC or whatever and the MR did expire mid flight, what am I supposed to do? Close the throttles and pray the Airswitch doesn't tick over while I look for a paddock?


I think NOT!

AMRAAM:

50 Hourly due at xxxx (Optional),

The company I work for has A/C that are CHTR and AWK and none of the MR's say 'optional' when it comes to oil changes. It was my understanding that AWK it was optional. Or where you referring to something else?

[Blue Hauler]

Wheeler,

That is correct, if it is on the MR. If it is not on the MR then perhaps you need to take the issue up with your LAME and ascertain if you can conduct a 50 hourly check +/- 10%. If the answer is yes (under your operating system) then have him amend the MR.

Pitch Pull,

If a MR specifies the 50 hourly is to be carried out at 50 hours; and you opt to do it at 40 hours; then you will have to conduct another 50 hourly at 90 hours, or turn the aircraft in for a fresh 100 hourly with 10 hours left on the MR. Most aviation managers would prefer to run as close as possible to the 100 hourly to reduce operating costs.

GA Driver,

Section 20AA of the Act states

(3) An owner, operator, hirer (not being the Crown) or pilot of an Australian aircraft must not commence a flight or permit a flight to commence if … (b) a maintenance release under the regulations that covers the duration of the flight is not in force in respect of the aircraft and the regulations do not authorise the flight without the release. Penalty: Imprisonment for 2 years.

CAR 41 places the onus on the certificate of registration holder to undertake maintenance when required. Penalty 50 penalty units.

If your MR looks like expiring towards the end of a trip you need to roster another aircraft or arrange to ferry back and have it renewed. If it runs out mid-flight seek legal aid!

[Tinstaafl]

As long as the planned flight would have the a/c on the ground at or before MR expiry, why would you need to seek legal aid?

The requirement is not to commence a flight without an MR covering the period of flight.

Once you're in the air that paragraph no longer applies. Until you next land, of course.

[Blue Hauler]

Tinstaffl

So what you are saying is to hell with the COR holder. Let him face the music under CAR 41. Of course you may also face the music under the provisions of CAR 281 (2)!